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Definition of Christianity
Posted 6/1/14

BlueOni wrote:


severticas wrote:

you're both not wrong but you re essentially pointing out that the bible and the christian teachings for example are a tool.


Sure they are, I don't deny that. What I'm basically saying is that religious ethical frameworks ought to be examined individually or as substantively similar groupings rather than taken as a global collective.


that's no way to exert influence ;). random question; are you familiar with dadaism?
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Posted 6/1/14

nanikore2 wrote:


mdmzero0 wrote:

I think my statement is simply this: religion, correctly interpreted or not, has simply been used as a tool to control, subjugate, or otherwise create undesirable social/political/etc. outcomes. From the crusades to today's "Holy Wars" - religion has always been the tool and the motivator for many undesirable outcomes.


Yes. Those who persecuted and sent Jesus to the Romans to be crucified were very religious people. Religion is of man and not of God; There is an important distinction to be made between God Himself (who demands faith in Him, not faith in some religious system or certain religious figures) and the imperfect and sinful men who do things in the name of God.



Why? Because religion relies on one thing- faith. It implicitly states that you must trust, rather than think for yourself. Listen to what others tell you, not what you yourself observe or think. Trust in the church or religious figures. This core premise of religion makes it very, very, easy to abuse, and it has and continues to be so abused.


Religion does not rely on faith at all but dead, man-made codes that defeat the spirit of the Law. Those who are religious think that merely following codes would "make them holy" (sanctify them) and please God when it is nothing further than the truth. Religion is actually the opposite of faith. Those who were religious (i.e. did things out of custom, out of habit, and / or worst of all, for outward appearances just to make themselves appear pious to others around them) glorify themselves and not God. Who do the religious trust? They trust themselves only... They obey their own ideas of what is good and not God's.

Those who place their "trust" in a religious system display zero faith in God.


It seems that you have defined religion as in opposition to faith. Most people when they use the word religion, do not have in mind that definition. They have in mind a system of doctrines, a way of life, a philosophy pertaining to the world, a practice and a theology. You can use the word religion like that, but it seems rather pedantic. If i say my religion is Orthodox Christianity and you object to it being a religion, then I will for the sake of the argument not call it a religion, but rather the end of all religion. For my mind true religion is to feed the widow and the poor.

How would you for instance class the text "way of the pilgrim"? A novel about a man who seeks to understand how to pray without ceasing, wherein he is given both practical and spiritual advice by presbyters, monks and other experienced men, on how to achieve such a state. I would classify that as a religious work under the common definition but under yours no one would call it a religious book. You say we don't put our faith in "religious systems" but don't we as Christians, assuming you are Christian, put our faith in various systems? Do you accept trinitarian theology? The theology of salvation by faith alone and sola scriptura (I don't but I suspect you do), then you are placing your faith in the system of biblical interpretation of the fathers Athanasias, Basil, Gregory and the reformers respectively. Do you submit a church leadership in which there must be a system of organisation to maintain order? Then that is a system, a religious system if you please.
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Posted 6/1/14

cleruninja wrote:

I see this exclusion of specific denominations as elitism. It's similar to saying you're not an otaku if you dislike Evangelion. I think if you want to identify as Christian, that ought to be your right. But Christians exclude Jehovah's Witnesses (who reject the pagan holidays), Seventh-Day adventists (who keep the Sabbath on the same day the bible says to), and Mormons (notoriously kind and altruistic, I would describe the majority I have met as being farmore Christ-like than your average Christian). They also exclude me, for believing in evolution, supporting gay marriage, and pointing out all this stuff.


Do you believe in the trinity? The Resurrection from the dead (not merely spiritual resurrection but a real physical raising from the dead)? The incarnation? A body of Christ (the church)? The fall of mankind into original sin? If you accept these then I would call you Christian but you are in error regarding gay marriage, a dangerous error I might add.

As I mentioned before, there is a historic mainstream that accepts these common doctrines and practices that I listed. The Jehovah's witnesses aren't considered Christian because they reject pagan holidays (which ones I am curious to know), rather they are not Christian because they reject the historic faith which has persevered until the current day, that Jesus Christ is God, one in trinity. Seventh day Adventists are Christians (for they accept the trinity and such), but most would have a problem with their refusal to make the Lord's day the penultimate day of the week in liturgical services. As for the Mormons, they deny God is beyond space, matter and time. God to them is literally a man of flesh and bone and that goes against all strands of Christian theology in which God is over and above the created universe. It doesn't matter how good they are, they cannot serve God if they do not worship him in truth.
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Posted 6/1/14
An old expression kind of sums up christianity vs religion; "you say that it's gospel but I know it's only church".
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Posted 6/1/14

severticas wrote:

that's no way to exert influence ;). random question; are you familiar with dadaism?


You mean the politically-motivated art movement?
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Posted 6/1/14 , edited 6/1/14
My thought about Christianity is that it is a state of being, sort of a declaration of faith through living, not through hollow words.

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Posted 6/1/14 , edited 6/1/14

EPwatcher wrote:

Considering people believe in much more silly things than this, some people in this religion probably do believe in this.


Probably? Then it's also "probably" just a cynical example since people cough up random non-factual examples all the time. The non-argument goes both ways.



Iconodule wrote:
You say we don't put our faith in "religious systems" but don't we as Christians, assuming you are Christian, put our faith in various systems? Do you accept trinitarian theology? The theology of salvation by faith alone and sola scriptura (I don't but I suspect you do), then you are placing your faith in the system of biblical interpretation of the fathers Athanasias, Basil, Gregory and the reformers respectively. Do you submit a church leadership in which there must be a system of organisation to maintain order? Then that is a system, a religious system if you please.


There's an entirely different level, quality, and nature of trust between say, a man and his best friend and perhaps the same man and his bank.
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Posted 6/1/14

nanikore2 wrote:


EPwatcher wrote:

Considering people believe in much more silly things than this, some people in this religion probably do believe in this.


Probably? Then it's also "probably" just a cynical example since people cough up random non-factual examples all the time. The non-argument goes both ways.


What I said of Flying Spaghetti Monster was bad wording and an example but as I said, considering the massive controversial things lots of people believe in, actual believers of this figure would not be surprising. I was basically saying that people believe in things that is not seen by them or not provided enough evidence, to some people, for it's existence. The belief in God or any other deities is like that, it is on faith.

There are aliens, Sasquatches, and other creatures people believe in because they find it's existence likely and have faith that their real, like Christianity does and many other religions do.
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