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Who was the best leader in all of history?
Sogno- 
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Posted 5/22/14
might as well throw in Oda Nobunaga, this is an anime website after all
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23 / M / Kaguya's Panties
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Posted 5/22/14
Hitler, he was very organized.
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Posted 5/23/14 , edited 5/23/14

KarasuEL wrote:


Blunts- wrote:

Jesus Christ. He even split the ocean into two so he could arrogantly walk through it like a fukin boss.


Please tell me you're joking.

I wish people reacted this way to the Hitler posts.


Nightblade370 wrote:

Hitler definitely had some merit for leadership in the sense that he knew how to manage a government, restore an economy, and persuade the people towards his beliefs and his ideal sense of nationalism, and for that, I must concede that he did a good job despite how horrific a man he was. Hitler turned himself around, from a mere prisoner writing a book about his idea of a perfect world to a man who could hold the very fate of Germany and even the world in his hands. He was influential, charismatic, and managed to perfect Fascism in a form unmatched by other, similar dictators. To Germany, he was a savior; to the world, he would be one of humankind's biggest threats.

However, I cannot agree that Hitler was a good military leader, and so I cannot agree that he is one of the greatest leaders to have existed because being a good military leader was crucial for the position he was in as a Fascist ruler.

He should have maintained the non-aggression pact as long as he could with Russia and shouldn't have been so eager to invade Russia until he had finally conquered Britain or at least has broken the stalemate between Germany and Britain. The fact that he also thought he could take Russia quickly was undermining Russia's military size and Stalin's ruthlessness towards his own people's welfare, and furthermore shows arrogance to German capacity at the time (now, it is true that Germany had an excellent military, but they were under prepared for Russian winters, and Napoleon's campaign as well as the German campaign during World War I are both amazing examples of undermining Russian winters). Hitler also ignored one of the most basic rules of warfare that costed him too many of his troops, that being the besieging of cities, notably Stalingrad (the turning-point of the war, no less).

I would argue that Hitler sending ill-prepared troops invading Russia prematurely is what costed him the war, and the only real reason Hitler had for invading Russia so pre-maturely would be because of his twisted ideologies. Yes, the very thing that made Hitler a fantastic leader in the sense of politics and of persuasion is the very thing that guaranteed his own downfall: his absolute hatred of Communists and his eagerness to exterminate them.

DISCLAIMER: I am not endorsing him in any way, shape, or form. He was a horrible man and deserved his fate; I am merely discussing him objectively and for intellectual purposes solely.


- "Knew how to manage a government" - I'd appreciate if you could elaborate on this.

- "Restore an economy". Hitler thought that economy was a secondary field and often said vague, inconsistent things about how he thought it should be. The Nazis' economic work was almost entirely the fruit of other men, and I'd like to stress that it wasn't nearly as rosy as it may sound on paper. Unemployment was reduced but this is largely because of how the Nazis tended to twist statistics in their collection of data. Jews, women and the disabled weren't counted as they weren't allowed to work, and all of the Jews' and womens' jobs were taken by the only demographic included instatistics - male, fit, Aryan Germans of working age. Compulsory military service also reduced the statistic, as did coerced labour for the unemployed. Wages rose but the average purchasing power and living conditions of the average German worker worsened. The fact that Germany was readying for war in the final years of pre-war Nazi rule also explains increased industrial output. Hitler's Autarky project failed and was a major contributing factor to the abject catastrophe that was the war. The fact that so many clowns still believe this crap is a testament to how enduringly successful Nazi propaganda and subsequently Nazi apologists have been.

- "He persuaded people". Do we really want to pick our best leaders by how populist they were? By how much they indulged in feel-good chauvinism and so got venerated? In that case, Marine le Pen is France's greatest leader, and Nigel Farage Britain's. Don't forget that a huge amount of people - Germans at that - absolutely despised the man and his beliefs. The choices they were left with, however, were exile, silence or death.

- Hitler did not perfect facism. At least not according to one of the primary facist thinkers, Carl Schmitt. His state became too immersed in the personality cult, in racist social intervention, in revolutionary upheaval and in self-destructive war-making for that. Also it depended almost entirely on the authority of the leader, possessing no real institutional stability of its own.

- Being a good military leader is not at all crucial to being a dictator.

- There would be no conquering Britain. The Luftwaffe had been too greatly reduced in Norway, France and Britain itself to defeat the RAF any more, and Germany didn't have the resources and diplomatic leeway to win out in a war of attrition.

- Please explain your point about sieges being a violation of the rules of warfare.

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Posted 5/23/14
"Karl den 12e" This is a legendary swedish king he was always on the front lines with the other soldiers he won many wars but in the end kinda lost everything sweden had been really big to day if he had not lost xD
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Posted 5/23/14 , edited 5/23/14

FuturePriest wrote:

"Karl den 12e" This is a legendary swedish king he was always on the front lines with the other soldiers he won many wars but in the end kinda lost everything sweden had been really big to day if he had not lost xD


Charles XII was indeed pretty great, but I guess given that pretty much his whole reign was warfare (after which the Swedish empire was destroyed) and I haven't really heard much of his civil legacy, I find it difficult to include him.
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Posted 5/23/14
Alexander the Great... just because he allegedly rocked.
Posted 5/23/14
I think you should change this threads title to "Who was the best slave owner of all history". And I can't believe you stupid fucks would say Hitler, Stalin or Churchhill for that matter. Learn up kids, read books they don't give you at school and don't say shit for shock value.
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Posted 5/23/14 , edited 5/23/14
Hitler and Stalin were pure evil geniuses.
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Posted 5/23/14
That's the problem with this forum. Hardly anyone pays attention to each others' posts so even if there's tons of activity, it's often just an endless list of people replying to an OP without any real discussion.
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23 / M / Beyond The Wall
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Posted 5/23/14
Date Masamune
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21 / M / Tiphares
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Posted 5/23/14
The fictional ones.
Posted 5/23/14


Nice to see someone else forming a well constructed critique of Adolf Hitler's political career. While I would have to say he was a clever military leader and a charismatic man , there are still other important qualities to judge a leader.
Posted 5/23/14
I'm surprised no one on this forum has mentioned Napoleon yet. That being the case I would put him forward, he was, at least in the peak of his career, loved as an idol by the masses(perhaps more so than Adolf Hitler), the greatest military mind of his time, and a cunning politician who actually made some strides to better the lives of the people under his reign.
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Posted 5/23/14 , edited 5/23/14

tretatum wrote:



Nice to see someone else forming a well constructed critique of Adolf Hitler's political career. While I would have to say he was a clever military leader and a charismatic man , there are still other important qualities to judge a leader.

Thanks. I agree that only his negative influences on the conduct of the war are understood by the majority, though it would seem that he did have some strategic merit.

Being a military history amateur I always have a soft spot for great war-makers, but without other skills those guys tend to just sap their country for the sake of territorial aggrandizements of often dubious worth, whereas in my view a truly badass leader is one who is a great peace-maker and improves the laws and living of their subjects, particularly in later periods where military leadership was no longer important for a head of state.

Edit: I mentioned Napoleon!
Posted 5/23/14


Lol I saw that after going back, another person I saw that you mentioned that doesn't get quite as much mention on things like that is Augustus. He, while still being a shrewd enough politician to secure leadership in a chaotic Rome, still managed to usher in one of the greatest eras of civil stability throughout history.
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