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Post Reply The Scientific Theory of Evolution has no holes, so why are there still theists?
Posted 5/22/14 , edited 7/18/15
Now what's really sad is people not just accepting that people think differently than them. So what if they want to believe in a higher power? Does it hurt you? It's not sad, just different than you. Anyway, people believe things for multiple reasons, they were brought up that way, they were in a dark place and someone reached out to them with a certain message so they cling to it, sometimes it's just seen as a self-help type thing. Whatever the reason, doesn't really matter.

I'm not religious, but just leave people who are alone unless they're bothering you.
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Posted 5/22/14 , edited 1/2/15
I don't know where the OP got his statistics but from what I've read so far the polls tend to be all over the place when it comes to making a true accounting of the amount of young Earth creationists in our country. I haven't seen any that claim 60% of the Country outright is anti-evolution though.

I found one blog that claims after analyzing poll data that it's actually more like 1 in 10 Americans believe in a world less than 10,000 years old: http://ncse.com/blog/2013/11/just-how-many-young-earth-creationists-are-there-us-0015164

Also keep in mind that there's a very large segment of the population who believe a divine power was behind evolution itself. That is actually a fairly rational world view, and I don't think that really compares to the people who believe the version of events of taking several thousand year old stories literally based on the word of tribal Jews who lived in fear of their God of anger and vengeance.

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Posted 5/22/14 , edited 1/2/15

seekerperson7 wrote:

The primary issue is whether evolution proves atheism. I'm of a mind to think that it doesn't.

Evolution is merely a theory that describes a physical reality - it doesn't say anything of a metaphysical reality, and if it does, then i'd argue that it isn't real science.

Basically, its not evolution that theists take issue with - its the assumption that evolution inherently implies pure naturalism.. If science is boldly asserting "There is no purpose in nature and only the material exists" it is making an inherently philosophical claim - not a scientific one. If it goes further to say "Evolution disproves god because, if a god did exist, he would not choose to create life through naturalistic processes such as the evolution" then it is going even further and making a theological claim by dictating what god would and would not do.

Its these philosophical and theological claims which theists take issue with - not evolution by itself. Its akin to how scientists get upset when theologians start making claims about biology and physical cosmology.


This. I'm a devout Catholic and believe in evolution. But I can't stand when people try to use science as a weapon against faith (and vice versa). I believe whole-heartedly religion and science can walk hand-in-hand. It's human arrogance that stops it.

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Posted 5/22/14 , edited 5/22/14
Well religion has more holes than swiss cheese, but it's still around. I guess that just means people want and need something to believe in.
Posted 5/22/14 , edited 1/2/15

domvina wrote:

This. I'm a devout Catholic and believe in evolution. But I can't stand when people try to use science as a weapon against faith (and vice versa). I believe whole-heartedly religion and science can walk hand-in-hand. It's human arrogance that stops it.



I completely agree. This mindset also has history on its side, as it was held by such great minds as Newton, Kepler, and Lord Kelvin (among others). It really is a shame that people are pitting them against each other nowadays. Its pretty much just a philosophical battle that people are worming into science and religion by loading both of these fields with unchecked, hidden assumptions. The media doesn't help either with its tendency to sensationalize things and cover the opinions of the most radical members of either side of this metaphysical debate.

'sigh' but what can you do? Even though its highly polarized now, its not like the debate is anything new. I've heard some claim that it stretches all the way back to ancient Greece.

Its interesting how many people think the debate can just "be solved" though. Like science is capable of coming up with definitive proof that a god cannot exist. Its almost humorous. Its like they think that by using science (which has answered so many questions in the past few centuries) that they can solve issues in philosophy that have been present since the dawn of human thought. Not only is it a misunderstanding regarding the nature and purpose of science, but as you said, it is also somewhat arrogant lol
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Posted 5/22/14

seekerperson7 wrote:

The primary issue is whether evolution proves atheism. I'm of a mind to think that it doesn't.

Evolution is merely a theory that describes a physical reality - it doesn't say anything of a metaphysical reality, and if it does, then i'd argue that it isn't real science.

Basically, its not evolution that theists take issue with - its the assumption that evolution inherently implies pure naturalism.. If science is boldly asserting "There is no purpose in nature and only the material exists" it is making an inherently philosophical claim - not a scientific one. If it goes further to say "Evolution disproves god because, if a god did exist, he would not choose to create life through naturalistic processes such as the evolution" then it is going even further and making a theological claim by dictating what god would and would not do.

Its these philosophical and theological claims which theists take issue with - not evolution by itself. Its akin to how scientists get upset when theologians start making claims about biology and physical cosmology.


More or less this.

I am theistic. I also believe in evolution. If a god existed, and he made the laws of existence, wouldn't he try to stay within said laws as much as possible? That's what would make sense to me. The fact that evolution is true does not mean that there is neither god nor gods of any kind at all, and anyone that tries to make the claim that it does probably isn't a scientist.
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Posted 5/22/14 , edited 1/2/15
The problem with evolution is a lot of people don't know what it is. Any discussion about evolution features gross amounts of ignorance and spreads misinformation...

General Statement: Please learn what you are talking about before pretending you are an expert in something
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Posted 5/22/14

Sogno- wrote:

son, no scientific theory is without holes


Which brings up the problem; a lot of people have pretty extreme religious beliefs... but don't consider them religious beliefs, because they don't actually understood or follow scientific principles at the same time they champion doing just that.

"Evolution" has become a buzzword. The basic biological definition is

Biology . change in the gene pool of a population from generation to generation by such processes as mutation, natural selection, and genetic drift.


This is an indirectly observable data, things we observed about before we began to theorize about things like genes or even cells. We could still see patterns in heredity. Eventually we developed the technology to actually study the genes more directly, discovered the structure of DNA, etc. Unfortunately many people don't realize that is all "evolution" is supposed to mean in biology, or that it predated the work of Charles Darwin. Darwin took this process, and attempted to use it to explain how all life could have arisen from a single ancestor. This has led to confusion in theists, atheists, agnostics, etc. who are used to people using the term "evolution" to describe the idea of such common ancestry. Further muddying the "scientific" waters is the gross amount of extrapolation and failure to meet the requirements of actual Scientific Theory, which includes being testable and providing falsifiable predictions.
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Posted 5/22/14
The Scientific Theory of Evolution has no holes, so why are there still theists?

Out of spite for atheist community. Well that might just be me personally, I just dislike the atheist community, they're so... cynical its annoying.

Atheist that are not associated with any group, that's cool. (technically what I might be, but I don't even wanna be in the same bubble, rather be theist)



domvina wrote:

I believe whole-heartedly religion and science can walk hand-in-hand.

^this


Lexxuk wrote:

I think you may have failed your thesis quite badly. The theory of evolution is not complete, no where near, there are still may things about evolution that are unknown to science.

Let's take the Panda bear, it's a bear (obviously) so originally was a meat eater and it's digestive tract is built for meat (compared to humans whose tract is built for veggies), so instead of continuing with a working evolutionary model of meat eating, the Panda eats shoots and are pretty unhealthy for it, that doesn't fit the "survival of the fittest" criteria at all, it's more a devolution.

Then you get into the question of if evolution is spontaneous or something that occurs over several generations, that's even before you get to creatures which haven't changed at all in millions of years, in other words, no evolution.

Finally, please use evolution to explain the Duck Billed Platypus.

Scientific theories generally go along the lines of "this is what we think, please prove us wrong", the evidence is reviewed and corrections made, new theories are formed but always with the "please prove us wrong" at the end, scientific theories want to be proven wrong so that science can move forward, as soon as science says "and that's the end of it" then it'll stop advancing.


and this^

Especially in red
Posted 5/22/14




Let's take the Panda bear, it's a bear (obviously) so originally was a meat eater and it's digestive tract is built for meat (compared to humans whose tract is built for veggies), so instead of continuing with a working evolutionary model of meat eating, the Panda eats shoots and are pretty unhealthy for it, that doesn't fit the "survival of the fittest" criteria at all, it's more a devolution.


They are not exactly prospering either, some believe they are going extinct (fewer then 5,000 depending what estimate you look at). They are on the conservation reliant endangered species list.
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Posted 5/22/14
Because, at the end of the day, very few people have actually benefited from their belief in evolution. I personally find about as much use believing in evolution as I do believing in some form of theism.
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Posted 5/22/14 , edited 1/2/15
At the end of the day, you're choosing to BELIEVE in what Science says right now. Science is always changing. Who knows what science will say in 50 years, 100 years, or even longer that. Science has proven to be wrong so many times (flat Earth, static universe, Earth being the center of the universe, etc) If you are just blindly following what science says then you are no better then someone who blindly follows a religion.
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Posted 5/22/14
my question is why does everyone assume its one or the other? why must you belive in science and evolution OR in a creator?

hey OP, i got a question, i dont really keep up on eveolution, so fill me in. how was the jump made to single cell from inorganic?
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Posted 5/22/14
Evolution doesn't disprove theism, just that we were created by a deity.

The fact of the matter remains that even with scientific proof, theists continue to believe that it ain't true.

Shit there's Christians that believe dinosaurs were put on the Earth by Satan to confuse us and make us not believe in God. Wtf.
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Posted 5/22/14
a belive in a creator and a belive in religon are very differnt things.....
i love how 15 christain religions cant agree when they all claim to use the same book.....
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