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Are the President & American Politicians Slowly Stripping Our Rights?
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41 / M / Georgia, USA
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Posted 6/3/14 , edited 6/3/14
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M / USA
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Posted 6/3/14

SaintJames012 wrote:


CoffeeGodEddy wrote:

The citizens shouldn't fear the government, but the government should fear its citizens. Pretty sure that's a quote somewhere.


It's a quote from V for Vendetta, which does not portray Guy Fawkes realistically at all.


Oh? Never seen the movie except bits and pieces. Thanks for source though
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24 / M
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Posted 6/3/14 , edited 6/3/14

CoffeeGodEddy wrote:
Oh? Never seen the movie except bits and pieces.

I think it tried too be too artsy for its own good.
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22 / M / Ames, Iowa, USA
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Posted 6/3/14


I think it tried too be too artsy for its own good.


That's actually a perfect description
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20 / M / Tórshavn
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Posted 6/3/14
Change your economy and you will be free! - err,
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24 / M / Las Vegas
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Posted 6/3/14 , edited 6/3/14
Lets bring down our government, that way, we will all be happy and free - Every anti-government protector



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34 / M / Midwestern United...
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Posted 6/3/14
This thread is very depressing.

I almost made my usual mistake; trying to rebut a bunch of people that know even less about what they are talking about than I do.

I'm not. Go. Learn. Test what you learn. If what you learned isn't working, identify why: good chance you learned something incorrect.

There are three reasons people are leaning more and more libertarian.

1) Modern technology and information infrastructure means deceitful politicians are easier and easier to catch; simply put major political parties can't just blame the opposition. This thread has multiple examples blaming "the opposition" when said power's party was in political power! Yes, I am talking about both Democrats and Republicans. In both parties, leadership largely does what leadership wants and ignores the party base, even when the party base isn't in the wrong.

2) This point is optimistic: people are finally realizing government isn't the solution, its the problem. The more you take from the private sector, the smaller it becomes. Government doesn't produce; it only takes which is part of why it needs to be as small as possible in a free society.

3) This point is pessimistic: people are likely less concerned with having the freedom to do what is right, and instead those that are currently not getting as much out of the government want the government to back-off so they can just do what they want, even if they know they want something that is hard to paint as "neutral", let alone "good". Honestly this wouldn't be all that bad except we know from history these people will flip over to the "pro big gov't" camp as soon as someone bribes them with enough government benefits.

Most posts on this thread have at least a little something wrong with them, mine is probably no exception. So go. Learn. Test. Apply.
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24 / M / Northwest
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Posted 6/3/14
I think there is way too much government involvement in our lives today. I also think that people need to realize that giving up freedom for a false sense of security is not the way to go.
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29 / M / Kentucky
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Posted 6/3/14
The problem will always be the federal government and any positions beyond that, even the president of the united states, the supposed "commander and chief". We don't need them anymore, they are all obsolete positions. Able to be bought and sold to the highest bidders for their opinion.

TL;DR
States should just govern themselves and the pentagon (the only useful federal building) should handle diplomacy and foreign affairs.

Just my opinion anyway.

It isn't ever going to get better though till a revolution sadly. I'm not pessimistic, I'm just being realistic.
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26 / M / Houma
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Posted 6/3/14 , edited 6/3/14

KamisamanoOtaku wrote:

This thread is very depressing.

I almost made my usual mistake; trying to rebut a bunch of people that know even less about what they are talking about than I do.

I'm not. Go. Learn. Test what you learn. If what you learned isn't working, identify why: good chance you learned something incorrect.

There are three reasons people are leaning more and more libertarian.

1) Modern technology and information infrastructure means deceitful politicians are easier and easier to catch; simply put major political parties can't just blame the opposition. This thread has multiple examples blaming "the opposition" when said power's party was in political power! Yes, I am talking about both Democrats and Republicans. In both parties, leadership largely does what leadership wants and ignores the party base, even when the party base isn't in the wrong.

2) This point is optimistic: people are finally realizing government isn't the solution, its the problem. The more you take from the private sector, the smaller it becomes. Government doesn't produce; it only takes which is part of why it needs to be as small as possible in a free society.

3) This point is pessimistic: people are likely less concerned with having the freedom to do what is right, and instead those that are currently not getting as much out of the government want the government to back-off so they can just do what they want, even if they know they want something that is hard to paint as "neutral", let alone "good". Honestly this wouldn't be all that bad except we know from history these people will flip over to the "pro big gov't" camp as soon as someone bribes them with enough government benefits.

Most posts on this thread have at least a little something wrong with them, mine is probably no exception. So go. Learn. Test. Apply.


Such a complex subject has multiple valid solutions and lots of grey area and different ways of looking at things. I prefer to look at statistical trends and looking to past events to hypothesize what influenced change in those trends. We should not only look to what has worked in the past for our own system but what has worked in others but on such a large scope it is impossible for one person to take all of this in and analyze it.

This is why we debate. Some may get sour but I say don't deny people a well thought out rebuttal, just keep it civil and cut it short when someone stops arguing and resorts to hostility. It's difficult to prevent flaming when so many are passionate about a subject but we should afford everyone the trust and respect that they will not be hostile.

Then again, I suppose if we were willing to take it that far it should be in Extended Discussion instead...

As far as politicians go I like to look at their educational background and their intangibles, the latter of which is hard to determine unless you talk/write to them. I look for an honest and clear response over some pre-canned answer.

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Posted 6/3/14 , edited 6/3/14
Politics and public opinion move in patterns. Don't be so quick to assume the worst. We are in a bad spot right now, but America still has incredible prosperity and freedom. Don't take it for granted. This is nothing like a police state.
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26 / M / Houma
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Posted 6/3/14

kinga750 wrote:

Politics and public opinion move in patterns. Don't be so quick to assume the worst. We are in a bad spot right now, but America still has incredible prosperity and freedom. Don't take it for granted. This is nothing like a police state.


This is the outcome I am hoping for, a regression to the mean, but I am hoping for a stimulus to trigger it faster. (though I hope that stimulus isn't war)

The bloated government, vast area of the nation, and failing infrastructure scares me... it reminds me of the fall of Rome. Surely we can't be headed towards the Dark Ages again? I just don't see it going that way, there is the modern technology and the ease of communication that can enable such a broad nation to survive such things. Everything hinges on the people... if things slip too far unrest will be the catalyst for change...
Sogno- 
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Posted 6/3/14
We should take United States and push it somewhere else!

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M / Various
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Posted 6/3/14 , edited 6/3/14
Well, the first thing I would ask when confronted with such a question is: what rights have been taken from me thus far? Let's see, maybe a bit of privacy? But realistically, unless I do something to set off some serious red flags, I don't see the government looking into my business, it's just not worth it to the government. The FISA has been around since 1978, it's just a big issue now, because the extent of their power was leaked to the public by Snowden.

Increased airport security... well, when you have a huge metal container capable of traveling 600mph in the air, carrying lots of high grade fuel, and is accessed, and transports millions of people on a daily basis, what sort of security would you deem appropriate?

Propaganda... last time I checked the government doesn't control what the news media pushes out. They did back in WWII when there was an actual declared by congress War happening, but lately the drivel coming out of the media outlets is 100% on the private organizations who own the media companies.

Police brutality... that's a local government issue.

Executive orders have been around since George Washington, and has been used liberally since the beginning of the nation. EOs are an expedient way to get federal agencies to do, or stop whatever it is they need to do or stop without the need for congress to go through their entire process of passing a law. To give you a frame of reference for these "unchecked" Executive Orders, here's a sampling of the number of EOs past Presidents have passed: Franklin D. Roosevelt - 3522, Truman - 907, Eisenhower - 484, Kennedy - 214, Reagan - 381, Clinton - 364, Bush Jr - 291, Obama (as of Mar 14) - 175.

Saying the FCC is trying to eliminate Net Neutrality doesn't make sense, since it's the FCC that enforces it. There are certain groups that want to eliminate net neutrality by changing the law and policies on how internet is regulated, therefore forcing the FCC to enforce a different standard than there currently is.

The Affordable Health Care Act is a travesty, good idea that turned into a crappy law, that was executed in a crappy manner. Unfortunately, the law was passed by congress, signed into law by the president and vetted through the Supreme court and is now the law of the land. It went through all the legal hoops, checks and balances to become law. Sorry, sometimes we just get the shaft. I'm hoping when congress and the rest of the government becomes less dysfunctional, they will amend the law and it will actually do what it was originally intended to do.

The president being able to kill or detain without due process, there's a very specific and highly restrictive category of people that are allowed to be killed or detained without due process. It's not just some arbitrary decision that the president can make.

As much rhetoric as there is on gun control, so far the only laws passed that increase gun control are those passed by the states. Federally, there hasn't been a gun control law put into effect yet, although some bills have been proposed, they were ultimately shot down.

The process of government is long and usually ugly, but I don't think it's gotten to the point yet where a revolution is even remotely on the horizon, or even necessary at this point. The government right now is quite dysfunctional, but not all hope is lost. It may seem like your rights are being taken away, but really what are you all of sudden not allowed to do that you were allowed to do in the past? I still have the right to buy guns and the restrictions of what type haven't really changed much (unless you live in NY, CA or certain states that added restrictions, which is not an issue with the president or congress, but your state and local government). I can still vote for who I want, granted they are on the ballot. I can still say what I want, go where I want and do most things that I want (besides the things that were illegal in the first place). In fact, now that gay marriage is legal and pot is legal (in quite a few states), there's actually more things I can do than I was able to in the past. My rights are changing, but they aren't being taken away... not yet at least.
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Posted 6/7/14 , edited 6/7/14

GreatLordBalzak wrote:

The bloated government, vast area of the nation, and failing infrastructure scares me... it reminds me of the fall of Rome. Surely we can't be headed towards the Dark Ages again? I just don't see it going that way, there is the modern technology and the ease of communication that can enable such a broad nation to survive such things. Everything hinges on the people... if things slip too far unrest will be the catalyst for change...


My main concern now is climate change. Humanity will go on as long as we have the resources to thrive, but now for the first time we know those resources are at very real risk. It's hard to imagine the world coming together and getting a handle on this in the next 50-60 years. Even if the wealthiest nations are able to sustain themselves, the poorer countries could face more death and suffering than has ever been recorded in human history. It's troubling to think about, but I try to stay optimistic.
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