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Is my Premium Membership helping the anime industry?
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Posted 10/6/14 , edited 10/6/14

LoomyTheBrew wrote:
Is my premium membership actually helping the anime industry by any significant margin?


Yes, in concert with other subscribers in crunchyroll's user base at least.

Where your Crunchyroll dollars really go: An interview with the CEO

The Anime Economy - Part 3: Digital Pennies


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Posted 10/6/14 , edited 10/6/14

sonic720 wrote:


LoomyTheBrew wrote:
Is my premium membership actually helping the anime industry by any significant margin?


Yes, in concert with other subscribers in crunchyroll's user base at least.

Where your Crunchyroll dollars really go: An interview with the CEO

The Anime Economy - Part 3: Digital Pennies




I've actually read both those articles before and they're all very informative. Crunchyroll is a good service and it's getting bigger by the year.
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LoomyTheBrew wrote:
I've actually read both those articles before and they're all very informative. Crunchyroll is a good service and it's getting bigger by the year.


Yeah, they had around 50 simulcasts for the summer and are pushing 300,000 subscribers from what I've read lately. The Chernin acquistion has infused them with more money to expand as well. They had 100,000 subs in 2012, 200,000 in 2013, and now over 300,000 in 2014. So, it seems they are growing by 100,000 subs a year at the current pace of things. This is good as it helps fund more anime projects. The content owners in Japan are also likely taking notice of the growing demand and planning to cater a bit more to western tastes as well.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/press-release/2012-09-11/crunchyroll-streaming-service-surpasses-100000-premium-subscribers

http://www.crunchyroll.com/press-release/2013/03/26-1/crunchyroll-streaming-service-surpasses-200000-premium-subscribers

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/12/02/chernin-invests-in-anime-streaming-company/
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It's hard to generally speaking for yourself. But if you're talking about a whole group like everyone here that has a premium membership, then yes.
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sonic720 wrote:


LoomyTheBrew wrote:
I've actually read both those articles before and they're all very informative. Crunchyroll is a good service and it's getting bigger by the year.


Yeah, they had around 50 simulcasts for the summer and are pushing 300,000 subscribers from what I've read lately. The Chernin acquistion has infused them with more money to expand as well. They had 100,000 subs in 2012, 200,000 in 2013, and now over 300,000 in 2014. So, it seems they are growing by 100,000 subs a year at the current pace of things. This is good as it helps fund more anime projects. The content owners in Japan are also likely taking notice of the growing demand and planning to cater a bit more to western tastes as well.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/press-release/2012-09-11/crunchyroll-streaming-service-surpasses-100000-premium-subscribers

http://www.crunchyroll.com/press-release/2013/03/26-1/crunchyroll-streaming-service-surpasses-200000-premium-subscribers

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/12/02/chernin-invests-in-anime-streaming-company/


If CR ever gets a million subscribers, that would be huge. Hopefully more and more people get interested. I think if CR somehow starts working around some of the licensing laws in other countries, people from more countries would buy a subscription. The UK and NA get a lot of titles and I bet most of the subscribers come from these regions because CR gets a lot of shows for those territories. But in other regions, for some reason licensing laws are atrocious so CR can't get titles in a lot of those regions, thus people don't want to bother with a membership.

I just wonder why licensing laws are so strict in some regions when there's virtually no other competition in those regions. Hopefully CR can challenge some of these laws or something because what they're doing is completely legal! Some of those countries must understand that pirating is an issue and that CR is the best defense against pirating/fansubs. If CR was as open as they are in the NA and UK in other regions, I guarantee more subscribers would pile in. I wish some of those stricter countries would realize this....
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Posted 10/6/14 , edited 10/6/14

LoomyTheBrew wrote:
If CR ever gets a million subscribers, that would be huge. Hopefully more and more people get interested. I think if CR somehow starts working around some of the licensing laws in other countries, people from more countries would buy a subscription. The UK and NA get a lot of titles and I bet most of the subscribers come from these regions because CR gets a lot of shows for those territories. But in other regions, for some reason licensing laws are atrocious so CR can't get titles in a lot of those regions, thus people don't want to bother with a membership.

I just wonder why licensing laws are so strict in some regions when there's virtually no other competition in those regions. Hopefully CR can challenge some of these laws or something because what they're doing is completely legal! Some of those countries must understand that pirating is an issue and that CR is the best defense against pirating/fansubs. If CR was as open as they are in the NA and UK in other regions, I guarantee more subscribers would pile in. I wish some of those stricter countries would realize this....


It's actually not really so much how you think. In some regions there may be laws against certain content, I'm not up to date on if and what though. However, those instances pale in comparison to the real issue, money. You know when AnimeKami posts the pic of the money being waved?



Well, that is the reason basically. The way it works is the Japanese license holder charges CR per territory for each title. So, CR must pay extra money to license to territories outside the core business in the US. In this way, CR does a cost benefit analysis and determines if paying the extra amount would be beneficial to their profits with those added regions. If they determine adding a certain region would not yield much, if any, profit, then they won't pursue it.

That said, there are other factors in play as well. For example, if one of the streaming sites native to say the UK or Australia or New Zealand decides to pay more for exclusive rights to stream a particular anime in that territory, then CR can't even bid to pay more to stream in those regions as the exclusivity clause in the contract the other streamer has forbids it. Another issue is the Japanese license holder not wanting their title to stream legally in certain regions. In that case some executive or committee member is being unreasonable and just will not allow it. There's nothing anyone can do there as they own the anime rights and it is their call to not sell them. In that case fansubs are the only way to go.

When CR announces new regions for a title, one of two things happened. 1) CR ponied up for more regions seeing profit in adding them or 2) CR intended to add those regions initially but hit a snag with the Japanese licensor somewhere and needed more time to coax them into selling at the right price.

Primarily it is a money issue. If people in other regions want CR to get more shows for their region, they should make sure to continue to stay up to date with their sub because money talks. CR looks at the subscriber pool in said region and sees if having that title is worth it for the number of people subbed there who typically watch that type of show. They look at past streaming numbers for that region for similar type shows to get an idea of how much demand there will be for that title. They also will look at comments and feedback on the forums and such to see if it has some buzz in that region too. The worst thing someone from one of those regions could do is drop their sub in protest of a certain title not being added right away. In doing that they tell CR there is one less person interested in their streaming service, not more. So, it is counterproductive if their goal is for CR to pick up that title eventually. Best thing to do is to stay subbed and watch more similar type shows while hitting up the forums to request and talk about the show you want to see be added.
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Posted 10/6/14 , edited 10/6/14

sonic720 wrote:


LoomyTheBrew wrote:
If CR ever gets a million subscribers, that would be huge. Hopefully more and more people get interested. I think if CR somehow starts working around some of the licensing laws in other countries, people from more countries would buy a subscription. The UK and NA get a lot of titles and I bet most of the subscribers come from these regions because CR gets a lot of shows for those territories. But in other regions, for some reason licensing laws are atrocious so CR can't get titles in a lot of those regions, thus people don't want to bother with a membership.

I just wonder why licensing laws are so strict in some regions when there's virtually no other competition in those regions. Hopefully CR can challenge some of these laws or something because what they're doing is completely legal! Some of those countries must understand that pirating is an issue and that CR is the best defense against pirating/fansubs. If CR was as open as they are in the NA and UK in other regions, I guarantee more subscribers would pile in. I wish some of those stricter countries would realize this....


It's actually not really so much how you think. In some regions there may be laws against certain content, I'm not up to date on if and what though. However, those instances pale in comparison to the real issue, money. You know when AnimeKami posts the pic of the money being waved?



Well, that is the reason basically. The way it works is the Japanese license holder charges CR per territory for each title. So, CR must pay extra money to license to territories outside the core business in the US. In this way, CR does a cost benefit analysis and determines if paying the extra amount would be beneficial to their profits with those added regions. If they determine adding a certain region would not yield much, if any, profit, then they won't pursue it.

That said, there are other factors in play as well. For example, if one of the streaming sites native to say the UK or Australia or New Zealand decides to pay more for exclusive rights to stream a particular anime in that territory, then CR can't even bid to pay more to stream in those regions as the exclusivity clause in the contract the other streamer has forbids it. Another issue is the Japanese license holder not wanting their title to stream legally in certain regions. In that case some executive or committee member is being unreasonable and just will not allow it. There's nothing anyone can do there as they own the anime rights and it is their call to not sell them. In that case fansubs are the only way to go.

When CR announces new regions for a title, one of two things happened. 1) CR ponied up for more regions seeing profit in adding them or 2) CR intended to add those regions initially but hit a snag with the Japanese licensor somewhere and needed more time to coax them into selling at the right price.

Primarily it is a money issue. If people in other regions want CR to get more shows for their region, they should make sure to continue to stay up to date with their sub because money talks. CR looks at the subscriber pool in said region and sees if having that title is worth it for the number of people subbed there who typically watch that type of show. They look at past streaming numbers for that region for similar type shows to get an idea of how much demand there will be for that title. They also will look at comments and feedback on the forums and such to see if it has some buzz in that region too. The worst thing someone from one of those regions could do is drop their sub in protest of a certain title not being added right away. In doing that they tell CR there is one less person interested in their streaming service, not more. So, it is counterproductive if their goal is for CR to pick up that title eventually. Best thing to do is to stay subbed and watch more similar type shows while hitting up the forums to request and talk about the show you want to see be added.



Gotta disagree here.

One might think, "The only people we should listen to are our customers."

However, if those customers show that they are willing to still pay for a service, even when they are not getting what they desire, then they will not be listened to.

That is why so much is spent (in every industry) on chasing after those who were once customers or who might become customers, because that is where fiscal growth comes from.

Thus the ones with the greater sway are those who back up what they say with their wallets.



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Posted 10/6/14
Why did i read this as Penguin Membership...?
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Posted 10/6/14

maxgale wrote:
Gotta disagree here.

One might think, "The only people we should listen to are our customers."

However, if those customers show that they are willing to still pay for a service, even when they are not getting what they desire, then they will not be listened to.

That is why so much is spent (in every industry) on chasing after those who were once customers or who might become customers, because that is where fiscal growth comes from.

Thus the ones with the greater sway are those who back up what they say with their wallets.


Indeed, which is why those who continue to pay if they are mostly happy with the service have the most say. Here's the thing, CR knows what target they need to justify picking up the show for a region already. Any person dropping out and not being replaced in the region will mean they don't get that particular show period. It is not profitable without a large enough sub base. Things are a bit different with the other regions. They are not the primary market but rather secondary potential markets. CR wants to maximize profits, so if they see people dropping subs it makes them less confident in expanding in that region, no? The key word is expanding, as really it is an additional revenue stream to the main business in NA. If that revenue stream does not bring in the targeted revenue, then CR will look elsewhere to expand. It's just like Japanese anime committees don't have to license to CR, but do so because it makes them additional money. It is a side revenue stream to supplement their main one at home. If it suddenly declined, then they'd just stop licensing to them as it would not make any sense financially.

Obviously if CR is not meeting a customer's needs/wants that customer has the right to drop, no question. What I'm saying is don't expect for CR to get the rights to a show if you drop in protest of them lacking a show or two you want in a given season. If you are otherwise happy with the service but are not getting every show you want, dropping is not wise is all I'm saying. CR can't license every show in every region without the revenue coming in from the extra regions to justify serving them. My point before was CR needs to see there is little risk involved in servicing those areas to continue to buy content for them. Otherwise it will cost them money if they don't have enough subs to justify it. So, if you live in said region, your best bet is to stay subbed if you are getting at least some content that is valuable. If the service is not valuable as is, then by all means it would make sense to drop a sub. I'm only speaking to those who may drop over a handful of shows not being available but otherwise get everything else they want.
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Posted 10/6/14
by watching crunchyroll even without the membership you are helping the anime industry just by watching the advertisements
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Posted 10/6/14
I'm worried in another sense. Yes, I'm supporting the industry with money but with crunchyroll fighting the piracy that brought me and thousands of others into watching and supporting the industry - I don't know if it helps the industry overall. I almost feel like it's selfish to support crunchyroll because I'll get good anime and new people won't be able to because they won't pay that much to watch it.

I mean, it looks like most people watched anime as a kid but there is much less anime on TV than when we were kids. At the same time, piracy allowed people who were curious about anime to build up a proper love for it before pledging money to support it. Whever it be in DVD/blu ray sales (which are what anime companies really care about), merchandise or just buying a crunchyroll subscription, people want to support the industry once they start to love it. Piracy is what we're built on and crunchyroll is trying to destroy it.

In terms of money though - crunchyroll is probably the best at giving money to the anime companies.
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Posted 10/7/14 , edited 10/7/14

aListers wrote:
I almost feel like it's selfish to support crunchyroll because I'll get good anime and new people won't be able to because they won't pay that much to watch it.


They can still watch for free - maybe on a delay or with ads, but they can still watch most stuff that's in the catalog (and a lot of fansub videos have ads and low quality), so it's not like there's a difference except waiting a week - and in regards to my region, I don't have a Funimation subscription, so I have to wait patiently an extra week for the next episode for their series, and it hasn't killed me yet.


aListers wrote: Piracy is what we're built on and crunchyroll is trying to destroy it.


Not everything is built on noble things, and in that case you should get rid of it once you have a new and better infrastructure, which CR is trying to provide. Hopefully more fans will learn that it's in their best interests to monetarily support the industry (directly or indirectly), because anime is made with money.
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Posted 10/7/14 , edited 10/7/14
There are many Crunchyroll ripping groups for those that legitimately can't access shows in their territories. One of these groups even had the nerve to suggest today that they actually fully translate and sub the shows themselves and do not steal from Crunchyroll and Funimation, and I was concerned to see that many misinformed people actually believed it and donated under false pretences.

No matter the questionable motives of these groups, there will always be a way for pirates to access these shows, so I would not use the excuse that Crunchyroll will destroy anime community as a reason not to support Crunchyroll.

Important to note that bypassing geoblocking with a VPN or proxy is not illegal, meaning that avenue is possible.
This is the method I recommend, and many Australians use to access Netflix and Hulu, meaning they are still contributing by watching ads or paying subscriptions.



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Posted 10/7/14

TheCoolAlchemist wrote:


aListers wrote:
I almost feel like it's selfish to support crunchyroll because I'll get good anime and new people won't be able to because they won't pay that much to watch it.


They can still watch for free - maybe on a delay or with ads, but they can still watch most stuff that's in the catalog (and a lot of fansub videos have ads and low quality), so it's not like there's a difference except waiting a week - and in regards to my region, I don't have a Funimation subscription, so I have to wait patiently an extra week for the next episode for their series, and it hasn't killed me yet.


aListers wrote: Piracy is what we're built on and crunchyroll is trying to destroy it.


Not everything is built on noble things, and in that case you should get rid of it once you have a new and better infrastructure, which CR is trying to provide. Hopefully more fans will learn that it's in their best interests to monetarily support the industry (directly or indirectly), because anime is made with money.


Unfortunately these things are only the case in America. In America I've heard that there is no excuse for pirating anime - it's all available just under restriction. In the UK we have huge problems with the fact that nobody's streaming the shows we want. I've paid my subscription but that doesn't get me every show I want to watch. In fact, there hasn't been any season where crunchyroll has licenced everything that I want to watch - unless they manage to get Chaika which would make this the first. I want to watch Sailor moon crystal but that hasn't been licensed for the UK anywhere. Not to mention that getting rid of piracy means that most of us have no legal way of watching classics like Higurashi no naku koro ni.

Also, there is a big problem with waiting a week and that's discussion. It was unbearable to be behind a week watching attack on titan. Not because I wasn't getting in on the discussion (you get what you pay for) but in the fact that I had to make people stop talking about it so that they didn't give me spoilers. If we try to get people into anime via friends then we're not going to be able to persuade them because we're a week ahead. Conversation is one of the best bits of watching any series so getting a noob to feel left out on that won't help us bring people into our hobby.
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Posted 10/7/14

sonic720 wrote:


maxgale wrote:
Gotta disagree here.

One might think, "The only people we should listen to are our customers."

However, if those customers show that they are willing to still pay for a service, even when they are not getting what they desire, then they will not be listened to.

That is why so much is spent (in every industry) on chasing after those who were once customers or who might become customers, because that is where fiscal growth comes from.

Thus the ones with the greater sway are those who back up what they say with their wallets.


Indeed, which is why those who continue to pay if they are mostly happy with the service have the most say. Here's the thing, CR knows what target they need to justify picking up the show for a region already. Any person dropping out and not being replaced in the region will mean they don't get that particular show period. It is not profitable without a large enough sub base. Things are a bit different with the other regions. They are not the primary market but rather secondary potential markets. CR wants to maximize profits, so if they see people dropping subs it makes them less confident in expanding in that region, no? The key word is expanding, as really it is an additional revenue stream to the main business in NA. If that revenue stream does not bring in the targeted revenue, then CR will look elsewhere to expand. It's just like Japanese anime committees don't have to license to CR, but do so because it makes them additional money. It is a side revenue stream to supplement their main one at home. If it suddenly declined, then they'd just stop licensing to them as it would not make any sense financially.

Obviously if CR is not meeting a customer's needs/wants that customer has the right to drop, no question. What I'm saying is don't expect for CR to get the rights to a show if you drop in protest of them lacking a show or two you want in a given season. If you are otherwise happy with the service but are not getting every show you want, dropping is not wise is all I'm saying. CR can't license every show in every region without the revenue coming in from the extra regions to justify serving them. My point before was CR needs to see there is little risk involved in servicing those areas to continue to buy content for them. Otherwise it will cost them money if they don't have enough subs to justify it. So, if you live in said region, your best bet is to stay subbed if you are getting at least some content that is valuable. If the service is not valuable as is, then by all means it would make sense to drop a sub. I'm only speaking to those who may drop over a handful of shows not being available but otherwise get everything else they want.


There's a business phrase used for those who pay for services they don't want, but it isn't repeatable here.


If Crunchy sees people dropping subs, and those people tell them why, then if Crunchy (or any business) wants to be part of that market, they will listen to those people over the ones who are still paying regardless of what is being provided.

The global market is one Crunchy wants to enter: the listings of what they are hiring for, as well as their increased pursuit of licenses in regions outside NA, indicate as much. With how the Japanese govt and domestic anime industry is looking globally as well to export anime due to problems with the domestic market, it is no surprise that Crunchy is looking at the changing business arena for this industry. Establishing a place or leadership role in those burgeoning markets before others do is paramount to move Crunchy forward as an industry leader and to maintain its position as one, which is all the more important that Crunchy listen to those who determine the market for these new territories: those who are vocal about what they want, and vote with their wallet.

The overall picture may be that Crunchy, to establish itself in these territories, may have to pay the usual costs of starting up in a new market: the cost of building up an infrastructure of customers and relations with those who do business with their industry but aren't a part of it and contribute to the business ecosystem that their industry is part of.

If the rep that Crunchy gets in these territories is that they cannot be reliable for getting what customers want, that could be much more costly in a rapidly evolving industry than the immediate cost of obtaining streaming rights for a few shows.
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