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Is my Premium Membership helping the anime industry?
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20 / M / Sweden
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Posted 10/7/14
You pay CR for a service, CR pays linece fees to fill their library with content.
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31 / M / Northampton,UK
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Posted 10/7/14
I like to help out Anime industries,buying DVD,Blu-Rey anime,going for big collection,so my children can watch it after.So big thanks to CR for getting me into this.
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27 / M / Louisville, KY
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Posted 10/7/14
$100 per year? What subscription are you paying for the Anime, Manga, and Drama? If you pay just for Anime it is like $50 - $70 a year depending on deals that go around.
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28 / M / NY
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Posted 10/7/14

maxgale wrote:
If Crunchy sees people dropping subs, and those people tell them why, then if Crunchy (or any business) wants to be part of that market, they will listen to those people over the ones who are still paying regardless of what is being provided.


This goes without saying. I'm not talking about this though. I'm talking about those that quit or give up without continuing to voice to CR what they want and just decide fansubs are better. The ones who say screw it CR did not get the new hotness in my region this season I'll stick with the dark side instead.

Here's the thing, CR in regions outside the US is often the only way to view anime legally. That makes it a monopoly in terms of legal content for those regions. That means it is either CR or fansubs if you want simulcasts. CR will not license more content for a region outside of its core business unless that region shows it has a profitable subscriber base to justify the cost of getting more period. If it does not, CR will get what they can if the price is right, but unless the sub pool increases it won't be a profitable venture to add more expensive titles to license. CR can't license every show, it just is not financially feasible. It's like if you ran a lemonade stand and made more lemonade than you have customers. You end up wasting lemonade and taking a loss. CR is not in business to lose money.

Like I said before, this is a money issue. The more money coming in, the more they will pick up for that subscriber base. It is pretty simple really. If people leave the base because of a few shows not being on CR it will not change the fact it was not financially feasible to license all the shows to begin with. In that way CR picks up the most it can for a region without breaking the budget for that region. Fans can demand new titles but unless more put up and subscribe it won't happen. CR needs to see growth to license more content.


maxgale wrote:
The overall picture may be that Crunchy, to establish itself in these territories, may have to pay the usual costs of starting up in a new market: the cost of building up an infrastructure of customers and relations with those who do business with their industry but aren't a part of it and contribute to the business ecosystem that their industry is part of.

If the rep that Crunchy gets in these territories is that they cannot be reliable for getting what customers want, that could be much more costly in a rapidly evolving industry than the immediate cost of obtaining streaming rights for a few shows.


CR has already laid the groundwork in many places and the Chernin group is helping CR to expand to new regions. However, a region needs to show its viability before they invest in new content and that means more video hits and subs, not less. I was only speaking to those who give up on CR in their region due to it lacking a few titles they want before. Again, it is counterproductive to not support what they do like from CR with a sub if they hope for CR to eventually add more content. Obviously if the content CR does have is not appealing to them much they should not sub, but I'm not talking about that at all. I'm referring to those who are otherwise satisfied with the service but want it to be like fansubs where everything is available. That expectation is unrealistic because it is a for profit business unlike the fansubs and needs to license each show for each region individually.

Not even in the US does CR gets all the anime each season. We have to sub to FUNi and others to get the rest and even then there are a few shows orphaned each season. I don't not sub to CR because some shows I want are not available from them. I sub to CR for what shows they do have I'm interested in and sub to others to get the rest or dark side if need be.

In markets where CR is the only major legal player, giving up on CR when it does not have everything you want means giving up on legal streaming in favor of the dark side. That's what I'm talking about. If you want more legal streaming, and CR has a large enough portion of what you want to watch, then staying subbed in hopes of more can only be beneficial in the long run. As you said, CR is trying to grow and expand, so it would be foolish to think they won't add new content because you are a sucker who is happy "as is" if you stay subbed. They already know that is not the case, and would gladly license more if the numbers in the market are there. It would be foolish of CR to not get more content when the subs increase, as that means more potential subs with a wider array of offerings.

I'm saying don't cut off your nose to spite your face. CR gets what it can when it can if the numbers are right. Vote with your sub for more content and they will get it if it's available. More subs=More money to license shows. More money=More anime. Less subs=Less money to license shows. Less money=Less anime. It does not get any more simple than this.
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28 / M / USA! USA! USA!
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Posted 10/7/14 , edited 10/7/14

sonic720 wrote:



This goes without saying. I'm not talking about this though. I'm talking about those that quit or give up without continuing to voice to CR what they want and just decide fansubs are better. The ones who say screw it CR did not get the new hotness in my region this season I'll stick with the dark side instead.


And if Crunchy is the only player in their region and didn't get it, then what excuse does Crunchy have that former or potential customers chose to not pay for Crunchy? What I haven't heard of at all from Crunchy is how they partner with fans to increase the visibility, status, and size of the anime community in other regions. Just like the early fandom here in the States, these fan communities are often willing and capable of doing a great job of mobilizing and evangelizing: and just like the early fandom here, for little to no cost.


Here's the thing, CR in regions outside the US is often the only way to view anime legally. That makes it a monopoly in terms of legal content for those regions. That means it is either CR or fansubs if you want simulcasts. CR will not license more content for a region outside of its core business unless that region shows it has a profitable subscriber base to justify the cost of getting more period. If it does not, CR will get what they can if the price is right, but unless the sub pool increases it won't be a profitable venture to add more expensive titles to license. CR can't license every show, it just is not financially feasible. It's like if you ran a lemonade stand and made more lemonade than you have customers. You end up wasting lemonade and taking a loss. CR is not in business to lose money.


That's putting the cart before the horse. That's creating a financial forecast for that lemonade stand and deciding its not a viable venture because one knows the lemonade market wants a variety of flavors or a certain set of flavors but doesn't want to put in the work and risk to do anything but sell the same plain lemonade.

Sure, it's one way to run a business (or to.........not run a business in a market) but to take a phrase from anime, it's up for the one making that choice to take responsibility, and not shift it onto a customer they never courted in the first place.


Like I said before, this is a money issue. The more money coming in, the more they will pick up for that subscriber base. It is pretty simple really. If people leave the base because of a few shows not being on CR it will not change the fact it was not financially feasible to license all the shows to begin with. In that way CR picks up the most it can for a region without breaking the budget for that region. Fans can demand new titles but unless more put up and subscribe it won't happen. CR needs to see growth to license more content.



All business involves risk. If Crunchy wants to be a global player in an industry where even the ones producing the content to begin with know that the industry needs there to be a global market, it has to be willing to put in the effort and resources to build that market. Too many companies nowadays expect to just be able to enter into a market that others have already created and if they might get their feet wet shy away. I can understand why as a company Crunchy might be a little wary due to its unique nature of having once been a less-than-reputable outlet and having been, to outsiders, what appears to have been randomly chosen out of other sites to go legit and serve as a form of investment. It's therefore not surprising that the corporate culture itself might not be attuned towards how to grow a market because that process and experience might not be part of the corporate DNA of the company.

But it's something that I thought the industry already learned, and if it isn't, the industry crash of the 00s will look like a small ripple preceding the true tsunami.



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28 / M / NY
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Posted 10/7/14

maxgale wrote:


sonic720 wrote:
This goes without saying. I'm not talking about this though. I'm talking about those that quit or give up without continuing to voice to CR what they want and just decide fansubs are better. The ones who say screw it CR did not get the new hotness in my region this season I'll stick with the dark side instead.


And if Crunchy is the only player in their region and didn't get it, then what excuse does Crunchy have that former or potential customers chose to not pay for Crunchy? What I haven't heard of at all from Crunchy is how they partner with fans to increase the visibility, status, and size of the anime community in other regions. Just like the early fandom here in the States, these fan communities are often willing and capable of doing a great job of mobilizing and evangelizing: and just like the early fandom here, for little to no cost.


I explained this all in my previous posts. The simple answer is not enough money in the subscriber pool. Anime is bid on and goes to the highest bidder. CR would need to outbid every other player to get all the shows, and do so for each region. That would not happen because CR would be overpaying for some anime if it did. The amount CR bids on each show is how much the title is worth to CR's library at the current subscriber rate. The budget is their "excuse."

This is why every subscriber matters. More subs means more budget to license more shows. With more subscribers they can bid a bit more liberally, and thus snag some more shows from the competition and add regions they otherwise might not be able to afford. Remember also they need to bid for each region, so the costs add up quickly. Each region needs to have adequate support to justify picking up the rights for it. If a region lacks a particular title, and it is not being stopped by competition or the Japanese side of things, then that means the subscriber base does not support the licensing fee for the show in that region. Plain and simple.
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Posted 10/7/14


Yes.
By supporting CR they're given more in terms of budget for purchasing broadcasting licenses for animes and dramas.
The more viewers and monetary support they have, the more extensive their library can become.

I only buy DVD's/Blurays of my favourite animes. If I bought all the animes I've watched... I'd need a whole new house just to store the content.
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37 / M / Canada
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Posted 10/7/14
Theres an article in the Animenewsnetwork that explains how legal streaming sites impact the anime industry, the article is 2 years old but may give some insight to those interested.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2012-03-09
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Posted 10/7/14

bathroom64 wrote:

Think of it as the halfway man. The in-between guy. The midway dude. The intermediate male.


brilliant
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28 / M / USA! USA! USA!
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Posted 10/8/14

sonic720 wrote:


maxgale wrote:


sonic720 wrote:
This goes without saying. I'm not talking about this though. I'm talking about those that quit or give up without continuing to voice to CR what they want and just decide fansubs are better. The ones who say screw it CR did not get the new hotness in my region this season I'll stick with the dark side instead.


And if Crunchy is the only player in their region and didn't get it, then what excuse does Crunchy have that former or potential customers chose to not pay for Crunchy? What I haven't heard of at all from Crunchy is how they partner with fans to increase the visibility, status, and size of the anime community in other regions. Just like the early fandom here in the States, these fan communities are often willing and capable of doing a great job of mobilizing and evangelizing: and just like the early fandom here, for little to no cost.


I explained this all in my previous posts. The simple answer is not enough money in the subscriber pool. Anime is bid on and goes to the highest bidder. CR would need to outbid every other player to get all the shows, and do so for each region. That would not happen because CR would be overpaying for some anime if it did. The amount CR bids on each show is how much the title is worth to CR's library at the current subscriber rate. The budget is their "excuse."

This is why every subscriber matters. More subs means more budget to license more shows. With more subscribers they can bid a bit more liberally, and thus snag some more shows from the competition and add regions they otherwise might not be able to afford. Remember also they need to bid for each region, so the costs add up quickly. Each region needs to have adequate support to justify picking up the rights for it. If a region lacks a particular title, and it is not being stopped by competition or the Japanese side of things, then that means the subscriber base does not support the licensing fee for the show in that region. Plain and simple.



And as I explained in my previous post, Crunchy shouldn't view the market "as is" as the actual market, unless it has first put in effort into growing the market. Since Crunchy is an aggregator of third-party content, if that domestic anime market becomes untenable and there is no global market for domestic content creators, then naturally it would reverberate back to Crunchy as well. While Crunchy has been diversifying itself by providing more than just anime, venturing into K-Drama, manga, and the Crunchy Store, it is unknown if that would be a business model which could replace income from streaming anime.
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Posted 11/14/14
I would say it helps a lot. Probably more than if you were to illegal stream them. CR pays for the rights to get those shows to stream. So they are making money off of it, especially if they see people are watching it.
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35 / M
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Posted 11/14/14 , edited 11/15/14
I'm doubtful that it's as much as it's trumped up to be only because there has to be a significant portion going to bandwidth and storage fees and it's such a low fee..

Then there's also the matter of how far down the food chain CR might be. The license, yes, but then that licensing fee goes to what? Are the licenses held by the original station that aired the show>? the animation studio? the manga artist? The lawyers that broker the contract? I mean it's not like you pay the artist directly.

and if you buy two anime DVD's and two mangas in the course of a year, you've spend about equal to your subscription. But with streaming as the option, you're probably not going to be as willing to just buy videos off the shelf...

There's also ads to consider in their revenues. That's basically taking the television model that has existed for years, and reformatting it for the internet. That probably adds some more to the actual revenue you're generating for them, but trust me, the animation studios, etc, are probably making the most money off of people who still just buy dvds and blue ray and manga. They also are hoping to capitalize on you buying the cheap plastic crap that they make with the images of their characters... (sorry, but it's just very difficult for me to invest in the memorabilia anymore).
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Posted 11/15/14 , edited 11/15/14
Short Answer: Yes
Long Answer: No

I'd much prefer a system that allowed us to directly compensate the studios for good work. As it stands, we don't really benefit them. There are license fees, site fees, programmer fees, and bandwidth fees. That first fee helps them a bit, but it doesn't benefit them at all if CR's userbase grows or their costs go down. CR *might* if they are feeling nice, buy more licenses, which may or may not help anyone at all. And studios might demand more money, but that doesn't mean the studios we like will demand more money. That's such a shit system.

It would be like if your boss decided, instead of paying you a salary, to buy vouchers from another company, who then gave half of those vouchers, and whenever you got a 'raise', the boss gave this other company more vouchers but you never saw any of them. That's how insane it is.

I'd much prefer to directly support studios using something like Bittorent Bundles, which are a legal way of providing payment to artists and organizations. We could actually get HD video, artists in Japan would see something like a 200% increase in revenue, and we'd not have to use this shit site anymore.

And, from everything I've seen of this site, the CR staff are dirty scumbags looking to turn a quick profit, not people who care about the Japanese Anime culture, so I don't see them doing nice things for the Japanese 'just cause'.
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21 / Bay Area
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Posted 11/15/14
I sure hope so! I mean that's one of the main reasons I signed up
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39 / Inside your compu...
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Posted 11/15/14 , edited 11/15/14

aListers wrote:

I'm worried in another sense. Yes, I'm supporting the industry with money but with crunchyroll fighting the piracy that brought me and thousands of others into watching and supporting the industry - I don't know if it helps the industry overall. I almost feel like it's selfish to support crunchyroll because I'll get good anime and new people won't be able to because they won't pay that much to watch it.

I mean, it looks like most people watched anime as a kid but there is much less anime on TV than when we were kids. At the same time, piracy allowed people who were curious about anime to build up a proper love for it before pledging money to support it. Whever it be in DVD/blu ray sales (which are what anime companies really care about), merchandise or just buying a crunchyroll subscription, people want to support the industry once they start to love it. Piracy is what we're built on and crunchyroll is trying to destroy it.

In terms of money though - crunchyroll is probably the best at giving money to the anime companies.


LOL what are you talking about... there are tons of illegal streaming sites and CR can't do anything to "destroy" any of those.


serifsansserif wrote:
They also are hoping to capitalize on you buying the cheap plastic crap that they make with the images of their characters... (sorry, but it's just very difficult for me to invest in the memorabilia anymore).


But think of their margins! You're "helping them" even more by buying stuff that's so cheap for them to make! ...Think of it that way

...besides, I like artbooks and soundtracks. Bet those soundtrack CDs don't cost much to stamp out by the tens of thousands.

When it comes to buying or not buying stuff, think of anime watching as incremental spending... Those who are not going to buy discs won't buy whether CR is there or not because they'd just go to the illegal streaming sites, more than plenty of those. In this "something's slightly better than nothing" point of view, Crunchyroll isn't hurting anything. Not really helping, but certainly not hurting.


smaudet2 wrote:
It would be like if your boss decided, instead of paying you a salary, to buy vouchers from another company, who then gave half of those vouchers, and whenever you got a 'raise', the boss gave this other company more vouchers but you never saw any of them. That's how insane it is.


Hahaha sounds exactly like every single publically-traded company on the planet when you take the point of view of the employees.

Companies want to make more money for their shareholders in the stock market, and not their employees. Companies give bonuses and raises basically when they have to... To keep employees from leaving for a more competitive salary LOL

Anyways I don't disagree with what you say basically- I think Crunchyroll neither helps nor hurts "the state of things".
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