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What should the world do about Iraq?
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Posted 6/18/14

11BravoPatterson wrote:

And now we have 275 troops heading to Iraq. So much for having no boots on the ground.


A relevant article from Military Times:

http://www.militarytimes.com/article/20140616/NEWS/306160027/U-S-positions-troops-ships-aircraft-possible-embassy-evacuation-Baghdad

So it's a bit more than just boots being moved that direction, though at present the objective seems to be to prepare for the event that US personnel and property are endangered and/or Iraqi security forces prove unable to reverse the ISIS' advance on its own. Considering the performance of Iraqi security forces against the insurgents so far a healthy amount of skepticism about their ability to halt the insurgents alone seems warranted.

The good news is that the insurgents' advance has slowed since they began working their way into predominantly Shiite territory. The bad news is that they've seized an unknown amount of hardware from Iraqi security forces thanks in large part to mass desertions. It's a mess right now, but at least embassy security is beefing up and evacuation measures are being kept primed and ready. We'll see how things go in the days ahead.
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Posted 6/18/14

11BravoPatterson wrote:


JuJuRoll wrote:

Dont people realize that The United States did this to Iraq in the first place and now many people want to abandoned them!!! People are so cruel. Kill the people, kill and leave children parentless and limbless, we pull out and Iraq is getting screwed again. Not only did we stab the people of Iraq in front, we also stabbed them in the back.


You can't win with a piece of shit sympathy argument. No one gives two shits about those people. All they do squabble and fight each other in their own filth. If you think Iraq was a paradise before the US invaded I suggest you do some research.


I know people dont care about other humans beings, they only care about themselves. We screw up a country and its people 100 times worse, then turn around and say we dont give a sh*t about you. No country is a paradise but they are worse off now then they were with Saddam.

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Posted 6/18/14 , edited 6/18/14

JuJuRoll wrote:


11BravoPatterson wrote:


JuJuRoll wrote:

Dont people realize that The United States did this to Iraq in the first place and now many people want to abandoned them!!! People are so cruel. Kill the people, kill and leave children parentless and limbless, we pull out and Iraq is getting screwed again. Not only did we stab the people of Iraq in front, we also stabbed them in the back.


You can't win with a piece of shit sympathy argument. No one gives two shits about those people. All they do squabble and fight each other in their own filth. If you think Iraq was a paradise before the US invaded I suggest you do some research.


I know people dont care about other humans beings, they only care about themselves. We screw up a country and its people 100 times worse, then turn around and say we dont give a sh*t about you. No country is a paradise but they are worse off now then they were with Saddam.



No, they're far better off now. Their only issue is this stupid ISIS genocide crap. And I do care for other human beings, which is why I don't want my brothers and sisters going back over there. It would seem as though you're fine with people dying as long as they're Americans wearing body armor.
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Posted 6/18/14 , edited 6/18/14

11BravoPatterson wrote:


JuJuRoll wrote:


11BravoPatterson wrote:


JuJuRoll wrote:

Dont people realize that The United States did this to Iraq in the first place and now many people want to abandoned them!!! People are so cruel. Kill the people, kill and leave children parentless and limbless, we pull out and Iraq is getting screwed again. Not only did we stab the people of Iraq in front, we also stabbed them in the back.


You can't win with a piece of shit sympathy argument. No one gives two shits about those people. All they do squabble and fight each other in their own filth. If you think Iraq was a paradise before the US invaded I suggest you do some research.


I know people dont care about other humans beings, they only care about themselves. We screw up a country and its people 100 times worse, then turn around and say we dont give a sh*t about you. No country is a paradise but they are worse off now then they were with Saddam.



No, they're far better off now. Their only issue is this stupid ISIS genocide crap. And I do care for other human beings, which is why I don't want my brothers and sisters going back over there. It would seem as though you're fine with people dying as long as they're Americans wearing body armor.


One of my friends who just got out of Iraq and served 2 tours on the front lines only to die of a heart attack last week. So all his effort was for what? ISIS mostly came over from Syria which our President refused to intervene even without troops on the ground. Our military is so technologically advanced we should be able to assist Iraq and get rid of ISIS very quickly. I don't know what Obama is afraid of since he can drone kill people in other middle eastern countries. No i dont want troops on the ground anywhere, just military cool kick a** robots.
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Posted 6/18/14
Why should the people of Iraq suffer? it's not their fault other people are corrupt. You can punish all the kids in a classroom for one kid's doing, but you should not punish those in a situation like this. Or in any situation involving a country and war.
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Posted 6/18/14

JuJuRoll wrote:


11BravoPatterson wrote:


JuJuRoll wrote:


11BravoPatterson wrote:


JuJuRoll wrote:

Dont people realize that The United States did this to Iraq in the first place and now many people want to abandoned them!!! People are so cruel. Kill the people, kill and leave children parentless and limbless, we pull out and Iraq is getting screwed again. Not only did we stab the people of Iraq in front, we also stabbed them in the back.


You can't win with a piece of shit sympathy argument. No one gives two shits about those people. All they do squabble and fight each other in their own filth. If you think Iraq was a paradise before the US invaded I suggest you do some research.


I know people dont care about other humans beings, they only care about themselves. We screw up a country and its people 100 times worse, then turn around and say we dont give a sh*t about you. No country is a paradise but they are worse off now then they were with Saddam.



No, they're far better off now. Their only issue is this stupid ISIS genocide crap. And I do care for other human beings, which is why I don't want my brothers and sisters going back over there. It would seem as though you're fine with people dying as long as they're Americans wearing body armor.


One of my friends who just got out of Iraq and served 2 tours on the front lines only to die of a heart attack last week. So all his effort was for what? ISIS mostly came over from Syria which our President refused to intervene even without troops on the ground. Our military is so technologically advanced we should be able to assist Iraq and get rid of ISIS very quickly. I don't know what Obama is afraid of since he can drone kill people in other middle eastern countries. No i dont want troops on the ground anywhere, just military cool kick a** robots.


Our technology is not THAT advanced. Us grunts don't get jack shit as far as equipment goes. It looks like a lot of high speed stuff, but in reality its just a bunch of pouches filled with water and ammo. Hell my company is still using the old PEQ 2 laser sight. I used a more advanced version in OSUT than at my real unit. Our body armor can only stop around 2 hits from a 7.62mm before the plate is useless and just acting as dead weight. That technobable is nothing but a bunch of whoo-haa.

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Posted 6/18/14
establish a lease (ex. panama for 99 years) for military base with the nation, let things settle down and then leave when the lease it up.
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52 / M / In
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Posted 6/19/14
I never want to ever see the Middle East ever agine
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36 / M / Denver
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Posted 6/19/14
If we intervene, we're the world police again, and they hate us. If we don't intervene, people will whine and call us heartless, ask why we didn't intervene, and they hate us.

For this particular reason, no intelligent American should care about our "image" in this matter. Throw in some liberals who insist we do something and soldiers who do their best to sound tough as shit and angry as though they were drafted into the military, and the whole thing (and this thread) is a giant mess.

You have to pick your battles. 2.6 million children die of hunger each year, go play with that one for awhile. Maybe we should do something useful instead of meddling in a part of the world that CLEARLY wants to be screwed up. What can you do when the people you've trained simply abandon their posts and ditch the gear along with it? How much hand-holding do we really have to do? Maybe we should do what that retard McCain thinks and simply stay in every country, all the time.

You can't give what you don't have - paraphrased Taoist proverb. Maybe we should solve the problems at home instead of pissing away all our resources on people that hate us.
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Posted 6/20/14
There are problems that cannot be solved. This is one of them. I don't think it will make any real difference if we intervene or if we don't intervene. We have the wrong motives, we don't really understand what the real problem is, the problem is super old and complicated, and we are not the right people to solve it anyway.

It's not that it's none of our business, or that it doesn't matter, because it does matter and everyone is connected. But we need to step back quite a fair distance and really think about why we feel compelled to act in these kinds of situations. That way we can clarify our intentions and maybe get some perspective on the problem. Frankly, if we can't at least figure that out, we have no business risking people's lives.

Okay, the problem is super old and super complicated. It doesn't matter how good our intentions are. We are basically idiots who know nothing, and our helpfulness is the helpfulness of a blind man in an art gallery. It would be like China showing up in the middle of the American Civil War and trying to contain things. Sure, they might mean well, and people might initially be saved, but it would be insane and we would resent them for it. Anyway, we are forgetting our history. Revolutions are super messy and tend to go badly. This whole nonsense is actually incredibly predictable and pretty much right on time. We have pretty short lives and we tend to want to see things improve fast enough that we can enjoy the change. Of course, we also resist change with astonishing stubbornness, because we are idiots or something, but whatever. Change actually takes a long time, and we are anchored to our past (including all the bits that Americans never learn that took place in foreign parts). The Mongols sacked Baghdad, and it has never really been the same. That was in 1258, by the way, and was only one event in a long and pretty interesting history.

And a bunch of well meaning Americans are not really the right people to fix this. We may be pretty strong and wealthy, but we aren't magic. People die every day all over the world, and there is pretty much no justice for them. If we want to fix that, we have to stop being what we are. And that's gonna be way harder than sorting out the middle east.
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Posted 6/20/14 , edited 6/20/14

uncletim wrote:

I never want to ever see the Middle East ever agine


Based on the President's language in a recent press briefing on the subject and the language of the top four members of Congress, I sincerely doubt that full-scale combat operations will resume. I'm even skeptical that the talk of providing limited air support will follow through, though it is certainly possible. The main emphasis at present seems to be to ensure that there is not a repeat performance of the incident in Libya, with forces being moved in to protect diplomatic staff and US property. It has been a point of emphasis so far that the personnel who have been deployed at this point are only to be present temporarily, and that there are no plans for long-term stays.

We'll just have to see since this is a situation that is still developing.
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Posted 6/23/14
NUKE IT WITH EVERYONE THERE!
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Posted 6/23/14 , edited 6/23/14
iraq has oil. they can rent mercenaries. can't let murica to spend taxpayer's money anymore
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Posted 6/26/14
Kick back and relax, for the most part.

It sucks what is happening, but essentially the "3 state" solution proposed in the 90s to unscrew what the British did when they carved up the region and grouped three different peoples and different tribes that hated each is coming alive. See, the area mostly occupied by ISIS is primarily Sunni, and ISIS's "Lightning" gains are really just them allying with other Sunni tribes and leaders. Baghdad however, is mostly Shia. There is little chance ISIS takes Baghdad, and even less that they manage to hold it.

Meanwhile, the Kurds will be sitting there, laughing while Iraqi government tires itself against ISIS, giving them more leverage.
Posted 6/27/14
"Free the shit out of it." -murrica
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