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Muslim Doctrine and Waging Jihad
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Posted 7/9/14
Muslims are friendly, loving, and everything they claim to be in small numbers.
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Posted 7/9/14
So how many are required to bomb a school? Six? Eleven?

Or are you doing a religious version of that whole "There's a difference between [type of people] and [racist name for those people]" thing that totallynotracist people do?
nrj
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Posted 7/10/14

AzazelOfNexium wrote:

I'm not going to really make a point, since i have washed my hands of the ignorance of the extremists of that religion.

The quran is one of the most violent pieces of religious text i have ever read in my entire life. " (so strike them over the necks, and smite over all their fingers and toes.) strike them on their foreheads to tear them apart and over the necks to cut them off, and cut off their limbs, hands and feet. It was said that," ~ extract from Surah 8 : 12.

The extremists of the Islamic religion are ridiculous; and hypocrites. They take offense when someone says anything about Islam, and then threaten people with death for doing so; Yet they are completely allowed to insult and piss upon the religions of others.

A holy war is a futile war, given birth through human ignorance and deceit. Its called a holy war, because that's the only way they can justify slaughtering people in the thousands for what they deem as "transgressions against Allah". However in reality, there is no "holy" in a "holy" war, as every one of these wars is fought for darker and much more selfish reasons, and the idea of "fighting for ones god" is a facade so they can ignore the inhuman acts they commit.


بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم - "In the name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful."
The verse that you mentioned and its brief explanation follows:
.
if you read the holy qur'an you will not understand it only if you read the Tafsir

the other thing is :
what you say ( They take offense when someone says anything about Islam, and then threaten people with death for doing so; Yet they are completely allowed to insult and piss upon the religions of others.)

allah said to us muslim people :

And do not insult those they invoke other than Allah , lest they insult Allah in enmity without knowledge. Thus We have made pleasing to every community their deeds. Then to their Lord is their return, and He will inform them about what they used to do
.
وَلَا تَسُبُّوا الَّذِينَ يَدْعُونَ مِن دُونِ اللَّهِ فَيَسُبُّوا اللَّهَ عَدْوًا بِغَيْرِ عِلْمٍ ۗ كَذَٰلِكَ زَيَّنَّا لِكُلِّ أُمَّةٍ عَمَلَهُمْ ثُمَّ إِلَىٰ رَبِّهِم مَّرْجِعُهُمْ فَيُنَبِّئُهُم بِمَا كَانُوا يَعْمَلُون
َ
Surat Al-'An`ām - سورة الأنعام

you say : They take offense when someone says anything about Islam
if you say someting Respectable without offense no one will get angry , but if someone came and say this :


or make fun of prophet muhammed (pbuh )


of course we get angry because we love our religion and we love and respect prophet muhammed more then our souls
also i get angry when i see this :


if anyone don't like any religion that's fine it's your freedom , but you have to respect other's religion and not make fun of them
you say that qur'an is violent pieces , it's OK because you don't understand what you read and believe what you see in the media .

peace be upon muhammed , jesus and moses .

والسلام على من اتبع الهدى











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Posted 7/10/14 , edited 7/10/14

nrj
you say : They take offense when someone says anything about Islam
if you say someting Respectable without offense no one will get angry , but if someone came and say this :


or make fun of prophet muhammed (pbuh )


of course we get angry because we love our religion and we love and respect prophet muhammed more then our souls
also i get angry when i see this :


if anyone don't like any religion that's fine it's your freedom , but you have to respect other's religion and not make fun of them
you say that qur'an is violent pieces , it's OK because you don't understand what you read and believe what you see in the media .

peace be upon muhammed , jesus and moses .
والسلام على من اتبع الهدى


That was not the point. Most religious people get sad or angry when their prophets are insulted. The difference is that nowhere in the world did christians go apeshit in the streets or killed people when Dimmu Borgir decided that they were going to make another music video, or when Gorgoroth played that infamous concert in Poland with naked men and women hanging on crosses on stage and severed sheep-heads on stakes in front of the stage...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorgoroth#Controversy_in_Krak.C3.B3w_.282004.29
Where as that is exactly what happened with the Muhammed drawings in Jyllandsposten, the "Innocence of Muslims" movie, the movie "Submission" by Theo Van Gogh, the South Park episode "200", etc.

The point is that many muslims seem to completely lose their shit over anything blasphemous towards their own religion. Way beyond that what other faiths do. And yet don't say a word when other religions "suffer" way worse blasphemic treatment. Which is why their argument of "mutual respect" is entirely worthless, since they don't really care about any religions other than their own (this is pointed towards anyone who reacts exessively to blasphemy of their own religion).

And no. We DON'T have to respect anyone's religions. That's what you and all your fellow muslims need to understand. You do NOT have the priviliege of being immune from criticism and ridicule. Nobody does. Regardless of ideological or religious faith -- ANYTHING is free game. Anything can be criticized and anything can be ridiculed. And it SHOULD be. Because scrutiny is the only way of determining whether or not something is worth having around or not.
nrj
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Posted 7/11/14
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم - "In the name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful."

Syndicaidramon said : The difference is that nowhere in the world did christians go apeshit in the streets or killed people when Dimmu Borgir decided that they were going to make another music video, or when Gorgoroth played that infamous concert in Poland with naked men and women hanging on crosses on stage and severed sheep-heads on stakes in front of the stage...

the reply : it's a shame on christian people or anyone alse to stand still when the religion get Insult , first i'm Against violence , but it's like what they call (KARMA) when u do somthing bad it's return on you .

prophet muhammed (pbuh ) get insult but allah tell him :

So be patient, [O Muhammad], as were those of determination among the messengers and do not be impatient for them. It will be - on the Day they see that which they are promised - as though they had not remained [in the world] except an hour of a day. [This is] notification. And will [any] be destroyed except the defiantly disobedient people?
{فَاصْبِرْ كَمَا صَبَرَ أُوْلُوا الْعَزْمِ مِنَ الرُّسُلِ وَلَا تَسْتَعْجِل لَّهُمْ كَأَنَّهُمْ يَوْمَ يَرَوْنَ مَا يُوعَدُونَ لَمْ يَلْبَثُوا إِلَّا سَاعَةً مِّن نَّهَارٍ بَلَاغٌ فَهَلْ يُهْلَكُ إِلَّا الْقَوْمُ الْفَاسِقُونَ}
Surat Al-'Aĥqāf - سورة الأحقاف


And be patient over what they say and avoid them with gracious avoidance
وَاصْبِرْ عَلَى مَايَقُولُونَ وَاهْجُرْهُمْ هَجْراً جَمِيلا
سورة المزمل - Surat Al-Muzzammil


So be patient. Indeed, the promise of Allah is truth. And let them not disquiet you who are not certain [in faith].
فَاصْبِرْ إِنَّ وَعْدَ الله حَقٌّ وَلا يَسْتَخِفَّنَّكَ الَّذِينَ لا يُوقِنُونَ
سورة الروم - Surat Ar-Rūm


so allah tell us to be patient because sooner or later he will get revenge with his power or our power .

Syndicaidramon said : The point is that many muslims seem to completely lose their shit over anything blasphemous towards their own religion. Way beyond that what other faiths do. And yet don't say a word when other religions "suffer" way worse blasphemic treatment. Which is why their argument of "mutual respect" is entirely worthless, since they don't really care about any religions other than their own

the reply : These muslims dosn't know much about islam and i feel sorry for that , becuase islam has rights for non-Muslims who live in islamic Countries , http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/374/



Syndicaidramon said : And no. We DON'T have to respect anyone's religions. That's what you and all your fellow muslims need to understand. You do NOT have the priviliege of being immune from criticism and ridicule. Nobody does. Regardless of ideological or religious faith -- ANYTHING is free game. Anything can be criticized and anything can be ridiculed. And it SHOULD be. Because scrutiny is the only way of determining whether or not something is worth having around or not.

the reply : OK it's fine , you don't have to recpect any religions , you say anything is a free game , so what muslim's do is part of the game and you have to handle it , Muslims may sacrifice their lives for Islam , that is somthing you won't understand .

by the way : you said some Words that are not respected about muslim's , so i'm sorry i will not reply your next post

و السلام على من اتبع الهدى



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Posted 7/11/14 , edited 7/11/14

nrj
Syndicaidramon said : The difference is that nowhere in the world did christians go apeshit in the streets or killed people when Dimmu Borgir decided that they were going to make another music video, or when Gorgoroth played that infamous concert in Poland with naked men and women hanging on crosses on stage and severed sheep-heads on stakes in front of the stage...

the reply : it's a shame on christian people or anyone alse to stand still when the religion get Insult , first i'm Against violence , but it's like what they call (KARMA) when u do somthing bad it's return on you .


No, it's not a shame. It's GOOD. It's called "not being overly sensitive", "having self-control" and "being able to handle criticism without flying off the handles and throwing a temper tantrum like a little child".

As for Karma... well, I don't believe in that. It makes even less sense than religion. I don't see how anyone could believe in it.




nrj
prophet muhammed (pbuh ) get insult but allah tell him :

So be patient, [O Muhammad], as were those of determination among the messengers and do not be impatient for them. It will be - on the Day they see that which they are promised - as though they had not remained [in the world] except an hour of a day. [This is] notification. And will [any] be destroyed except the defiantly disobedient people?
{فَاصْبِرْ كَمَا صَبَرَ أُوْلُوا الْعَزْمِ مِنَ الرُّسُلِ وَلَا تَسْتَعْجِل لَّهُمْ كَأَنَّهُمْ يَوْمَ يَرَوْنَ مَا يُوعَدُونَ لَمْ يَلْبَثُوا إِلَّا سَاعَةً مِّن نَّهَارٍ بَلَاغٌ فَهَلْ يُهْلَكُ إِلَّا الْقَوْمُ الْفَاسِقُونَ}
Surat Al-'Aĥqāf - سورة الأحقاف


And be patient over what they say and avoid them with gracious avoidance
وَاصْبِرْ عَلَى مَايَقُولُونَ وَاهْجُرْهُمْ هَجْراً جَمِيلا
سورة المزمل - Surat Al-Muzzammil


So be patient. Indeed, the promise of Allah is truth. And let them not disquiet you who are not certain [in faith].
فَاصْبِرْ إِنَّ وَعْدَ الله حَقٌّ وَلا يَسْتَخِفَّنَّكَ الَّذِينَ لا يُوقِنُونَ
سورة الروم - Surat Ar-Rūm


so allah tell us to be patient because sooner or later he will get revenge with his power or our power.


So then I assume that you condemn every single muslim who resort to violence as a result of others commiting blasphemy?





nrj
Syndicaidramon said : The point is that many muslims seem to completely lose their shit over anything blasphemous towards their own religion. Way beyond that what other faiths do. And yet don't say a word when other religions "suffer" way worse blasphemic treatment. Which is why their argument of "mutual respect" is entirely worthless, since they don't really care about any religions other than their own

the reply : These muslims dosn't know much about islam and i feel sorry for that , becuase islam has rights for non-Muslims who live in islamic Countries , http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/374/


I saw nothing in that article that addressed the issue of blasphemy. All it said was that non-muslims should be free to practice their religion. Which should go without saying for anyone anywhere. Honestly, it had nothing of relevance to what I was saying.




nrj
Syndicaidramon said : And no. We DON'T have to respect anyone's religions. That's what you and all your fellow muslims need to understand. You do NOT have the priviliege of being immune from criticism and ridicule. Nobody does. Regardless of ideological or religious faith -- ANYTHING is free game. Anything can be criticized and anything can be ridiculed. And it SHOULD be. Because scrutiny is the only way of determining whether or not something is worth having around or not.

the reply : OK it's fine , you don't have to recpect any religions , you say anything is a free game , so what muslim's do is part of the game and you have to handle it , Muslims may sacrifice their lives for Islam , that is somthing you won't understand .

by the way : you said some Words that are not respected about muslim's , so i'm sorry i will not reply your next post
و السلام على من اتبع الهدى


With all due respect... really? Me saying a dirty word is all it takes for you to throw in the towel? You don't think you're being a tad overly sensitive there?

As for the part of the respect, I think you're grossly misinterprating what I'm saying. What you're doing when you say "so what muslim's do is part of the game and you have to handle it" -- especially when following it up with "Muslims may sacrifice their lives for Islam" -- is that you're insinuating that muslims are righteous in responding to disrespect with violence. That is not the case. At all.
Disrespect, even when done to you personally, is not valid grounds for responding with violence and murder. Much less when it's not even you personally that is being disrespected. Which it's not in the case of disrespect towards islam.

If anyone is disrespectful towards you, then you are free to be as disrespectful as you please in return. But disrespect is not justifiable ground for violence and murder. If you think it is, then you need to jack down your ego.
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Posted 7/11/14 , edited 7/11/14
I think it's crazy how Muslims got mad eight years ago because some Danish guy drew picture of their prophet. They got all angry and some guy tried to kill the cartoonist with an axe.
Bill Maher mocks my religion on a weekly basis but I'm not going to blow myself up because of it.
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Posted 7/13/14 , edited 7/13/14
I think what this discussion realizes is that the key difference between Islam and Christianity is that Islam is much more alive than Christianity. Because it's younger? Because it's more 'powerful' and commanding? I have no idea. But it seems clear that its followers are for the most part much more attached to the religion and take it much more seriously. If most Christians followed the Bible to the word and held God as the most important aspect of their lives, I'm sure the situation wouldn't be so different. Yet no, most Christians are Christian in name only and in a light, cultural sense otherwise (thankfully for the first part as far as I'm concerned).

I would be willing to suggest that there might be more space in the Qu'ran for seeing sanctioned violence because of the more violent nature of Islam's birth. However, it's probably only because of the extremely, endemically unstable nature of the middle-east that violent interpretations gain any traction.


CoffeeGodEddy wrote:

Muslims are friendly, loving, and everything they claim to be in small numbers.

Please do elaborate on this point.
nrj
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Posted 7/15/14

HuastecoOtaku wrote:
Bill Maher mocks my religion on a weekly basis but I'm not going to blow myself up because of it.


بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم - "In the name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful."

you understand worng , i don't say to go and blow yourself , what i mean is if you angry because he mocks your religion you have to stand and Object , like to go to street with a piece of paper saying that you're angry about that insult .
if you continue be silent they will do it again and again.
I don't know but .... don't you people have so much love to moses or jesus .
In Christianity you believe that Jesus died on the cross to atone for the sins of the world , he does that for you all
and what you did for him '' NOTHING ", just mocks him and laugh.
for us muslims we love prophet muhammad so much because he's the one that show us the true way to worship only one god
Our ancestors who worshiped the idols of stone ,They were in darkness but he came and show them light .
and he tell us that : "None of you will believe until I am more beloved to him than his children, his father and all people ".
"None of you will believe until I am dearer to him than himself ''

when i say " sacrifice their lives " i mean they will do anything to protect what they love
for example : someone try to burn a Mosque , the muslims will sacrifice their lives to protect that mosque .
like sacrifice your live for family , country ... etc .

و السلام على من اتبع الهدى
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Posted 7/15/14

nrj wrote:


HuastecoOtaku wrote:
Bill Maher mocks my religion on a weekly basis but I'm not going to blow myself up because of it.


بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم - "In the name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful."

you understand worng , i don't say to go and blow yourself , what i mean is if you angry because he mocks your religion you have to stand and Object , like to go to street with a piece of paper saying that you're angry about that insult .
if you continue be silent they will do it again and again.
I don't know but .... don't you people have so much love to moses or jesus .
In Christianity you believe that Jesus died on the cross to atone for the sins of the world , he does that for you all
and what you did for him '' NOTHING ", just mocks him and laugh.
for us muslims we love prophet muhammad so much because he's the one that show us the true way to worship only one god
Our ancestors who worshiped the idols of stone ,They were in darkness but he came and show them light .
and he tell us that : "None of you will believe until I am more beloved to him than his children, his father and all people ".
"None of you will believe until I am dearer to him than himself ''

when i say " sacrifice their lives " i mean they will do anything to protect what they love
for example : someone try to burn a Mosque , the muslims will sacrifice their lives to protect that mosque .
like sacrifice your live for family , country ... etc .

و السلام على من اتبع الهدى


Jesus says
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
Matthew 5 : 43-47

When people mock my religion I pray for them and write a letter to whoever is in charge. There is no need for violence.
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Posted 7/15/14
When Renegatz says "I think what this discussion realizes is that the key difference between Islam and Christianity is that Islam is much more alive than Christianity. Because it's younger? Because it's more 'powerful' and commanding?" It is true Islam is younger and when Christianity was younger they had the Crusades where Christian Kings and their assorted followers raped, pillaged and occupied Jerusalem and every place on their way there. Their motive, the infidel Muslims occupied the Holy land; which just happened to be their home land. So if all you have to worry about are a very small number of Jihadists and not countries declaring war; other than the wars going on in the middle east, largely between Muslims, then things aren't as bad as they could be,
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Posted 7/16/14

tenchi22 wrote:

When Renegatz says "I think what this discussion realizes is that the key difference between Islam and Christianity is that Islam is much more alive than Christianity. Because it's younger? Because it's more 'powerful' and commanding?" It is true Islam is younger and when Christianity was younger they had the Crusades where Christian Kings and their assorted followers raped, pillaged and occupied Jerusalem and every place on their way there. Their motive, the infidel Muslims occupied the Holy land; which just happened to be their home land. So if all you have to worry about are a very small number of Jihadists and not countries declaring war; other than the wars going on in the middle east, largely between Muslims, then things aren't as bad as they could be,


Islam is much more alive than Christianity because they have bigger families. If you have ten kids who have kids then your are going to end up with a lot of Muslims. The people in west have been using birth control for decades and there isn't a strong emphasis on having more than two kids.
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Posted 7/17/14

HuastecoOtaku wrote:

I think it's crazy how Muslims got mad eight years ago because some Danish guy drew picture of their prophet. They got all angry and some guy tried to kill the cartoonist with an axe.
Bill Maher mocks my religion on a weekly basis but I'm not going to blow myself up because of it.


If I interpret your comment correctly, are you saying that Muslims (the ones portrayed in the media) need to exhibit the same factor of chill that you have when people insult your religion?

One thing I would like to add to the discussion is that the Muslims we see and hear about in the News may not be of equal socioeconomic status as ourselves. I won't make assumptions about your status, but I know that as a member of the American middle-class, I have a lot of privilege that others do not have. I know that my rights are protected and that when I report an incidence of violence or discrimination committed against me, I will be taken seriously. This gives me security in the face of any apparent mocking of my beliefs (which in the U.S. is largely done in the context of humor, not persecution). In general, I'm content with how my life is going.

In contrast, I suspect that many of the Muslims depicted in the World News deal with daily frustration, possibly due to poverty, a war-torn country, or other factors that I've never had to worry about (when's the last time the U.S. military fought a war on American soil?). Furthermore, much of what gets exported from the U.S. into other nations is capitalism, often without respect for the local beliefs and customs (they companies are just there to make money). Putting all of these things into context, is it that surprising that some people are more susceptible to engage in violent behavior?

I like your comment because it opens up for a deeper discussion of what really drives people to violence. Is it really just the insulting picture? Or are there other things often overlooked in the media production process?
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Posted 7/27/14

Nalaniel wrote:


Fozzles wrote:

Jihad = the spiritual struggle within oneself against sin.

Just putting it out there.


I learned in school that there are two kinds of jihad. The first is what you say and the second is the war against non-believer.


I have heard of this but technically its wrong. There are a few ways to define jihad these days but ''war against non-believers'' isn't one of them. I'm sure it looks ironic if that was the definition of the word - since it comes from a faith which literally means ''peace''.
Yes, there are Islamic extremists out there screaming out the word jihad but what they're doing are not only crimes but sins also. They haven't been educated properly. In the end its how they were taught and who by, you can't blame the religion based on what these people have done. Its a shame really.
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Posted 7/27/14

FlyinDumpling wrote:


Fozzles wrote:

Jihad = the spiritual struggle within oneself against sin.

Just putting it out there.
Thank you! ( ^∇^)ノ

I think there is a lot of prejudice against Muslims. Especially in America, there are a whole bunch of fox-watching red-necks spreading their Islamophobic shit. The misinterpretation of the word "jihad" is the perfect example. Then there are words like "Moderate Muslims" as if Muslim Extremist is the standard. The word Jihad is not equivalent to Muslim extremism. A video that everyone should watch:

What Does Jihad Actually Mean?


*bows* om so happy *puts hands in the air*
I said something right for once
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