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Muslim Doctrine and Waging Jihad
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Posted 7/29/14

randommangaguy wrote:


FlyinDumpling wrote:


randommangaguy wrote:

No muslims, but jihadists, you guys tried to make it sound like a good and nice thing, meanwhile most of the people who call themselves jihadists are the very same people continuing the religion wars in middle east, and now even in europe (Norway, if you didn't hear they're aiming there).
People within a religion can have a different take on the same thing. Some use it for violence and others who use it as a guide in life. There are muslims who do not use the jihadi movement for terrorism, that was the point of my post.


If you say so, then it's ok. Just one question: if I were in an Islamic state, would I still be allowed to say what I said here, without getting imprisoned or executed? find the answer and think about it, then let me hear it...

...though I think I know that answer already, sadly.


I think the problem when it comes to Islamic states is that they are generally ruled by a dictatorship which uses worship and beliefs to keep people in line including using ancient laws in some twisted way to make people fear and fall in line with the dogma on offer. The saddest thing is most of these regimes were put in place by western powers deal making at various times most notably during the First World War. Most of the war in the Middle East isn't even much to do with religion it's about settling old scores between tribes who have been feuding for centuries.
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Posted 7/29/14 , edited 7/29/14

FlyinDumpling wrote:
you'll be blown up by a Muslim extremest of you meet one. you should watch the video I've linked if you haven't already. Fine the answer, think about it, and let yourself hear it.


I've already watched that video and it makes no difference from what you said before (that some people feel jihad in different ways etc), still, most of the people who follow the jihad are extremists, if that weren't true then there wouldn't be so many wars in the middle east (they would have ended already). A war, to happen needs one fundamental thing: people who fight for it. If there's no people willing to fight for a war, the war doesn't happen.

I'll tell you a story... I live in one of those countries that you would say is a "christian country for excellence" and there's even an official law that states: if I say blasphemous words against god while I'm in a public place and in the presence of religious people, they're allowed to fill a complaint against me and if that happens I've to pay a fine of $250 (+/-) to the police. The high school where I studied when I was younger was owned by a catholic family, even the director and vice-director were catholics, the school was allowed to teach one hour of religion a week (most of the schools here are allowed one hour), for all classes and for all students from first to last years. One of the school's rules was "don't use blasphemous words" (other than: no smoking, no running in the hallways and other classic rules). One day, during lunch break, I was playing soccer in the courtyard with a bunch of classmates using an improvised ball made of paper and tape, then I accidently hit a bench made of marble with my knee and was so painfull, I screamed so loud the most offensive words against god that one can say using my language, probably the whole school heard my screaming, I didn't notice but behind me was one of the most respected teachers of the school, which was also rumored to be a very catholic person... and yet, all he said was "HEY! Lower your voice! Stop playing around, lunch break is ending" and then... nothing, absolutely nada happened to me, nobody reported me to the director, I wasn't brought to the police and I didn't pay any fine. Remember I said here, a few lines above, that the school was allowed to teach one hour of religion a week? well, ever since I entered that school on my first day, in my first year, the school never applied the weekly religion hour, not even once, instead they made two hours of physical education instead of one per week, and you know why? because for the school owner, for the school directors and for the teachers, education is more important than doctrine and than personal beliefs and this is nothing special, it's simply common sense even in a "christian country for excellence" like mine.

I'll tell you more, in church is very common to hear kids making a lot of noise even during mass, I remember when I was like 10 and was preparing for the first communion ceremony (a ceremony that religious families do for their kids when they reach the age of 10/11), a bunch of kids from my group were laughing like crazy even when it was supposed to be a serious moment, then the priest yelled at them something like "hey you there shut up and follow the line!" and one of the cheeky kids in return answered with a very funny sentence about the virgin Mary (a very common one), which is also very offensive for religious people, and to worsen things he said that in a damn church, during a ceremony like that. Then you know what happened? the priest stopped for a moment and gave him a "death stare" he didn't say any words, then he simply continued with the preparation for the ceremony as if nothing happened. Well, the kid had a scare, but that's all, even a PRIEST which is the most religious figure in a church, didn't bring him to the police and he didn't complain to his parents that were right there in the next room.

Personally, when I found that Santa wasn't real (I was 12, a classmate told me - lol - I was a clueless kid I know...), I stopped believeing in any spiritual thing, for a few years I kept believeing that there was something, who created the spark that caused the big bang, then I studied a lot of astronomy and when I was 18 I finally stopped believeing in any superior entity concept, because I didn't have any need anymore. I was born, raised and educated in a country like this, surrounded by religious people and physical objects of religion, and yet, here I am, neutral and alive at my age, nobody ever thought that I should have died or been killed, nobody ever insulted me for not believing in their religion, even the most religius persons I met in my life, nobody ever threatened me even when I was being an asshole (a few times I admit I was kinda mean toward some people and I feel bad about that). And you know why? because I respect their opinions and lifestyle, because they respect mine, I don't get in their way and they don't get in my way, we peacefully live together under the same national flag.


randommangaguy wrote:
if I were in an Islamic state, would I still be allowed to say what I said here, without getting imprisoned or executed?



FlyinDumpling wrote:
you'll be blown up by a Muslim extremest of you meet one.


This is the fundamental difference.
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Posted 7/29/14 , edited 7/29/14

MrMoondoggie wrote:
I think the problem when it comes to Islamic states is that they are generally ruled by a dictatorship which uses worship and beliefs to keep people in line including using ancient laws in some twisted way to make people fear and fall in line with the dogma on offer. The saddest thing is most of these regimes were put in place by western powers deal making at various times most notably during the First World War. Most of the war in the Middle East isn't even much to do with religion it's about settling old scores between tribes who have been feuding for centuries.


If I say "Allau Akbar" what's the first thing that comes to your mind? To me, the first thing that comes to mind is: people dying in some expolsion or jihadists firing a rifle. And why is that they killed each other for centuries? for their religious beliefs.

Thinking about it, making a simple comparison with Europe for example, Germany caused death and destruction in WW2 and yet, today in 2014 the European countries are at peace, and it was less than 80 years ago that they were killing each other. I don't resent Germany and nobody else I know does, besides our granpas who fought that war are mostly all dead by now, but even when they were alive I've never once heard my grapa say anything against Germany, and yet he was imprisoned for 2 years during WW2, in Germany.
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Posted 7/29/14

randommangaguy wrote:


MrMoondoggie wrote:
I think the problem when it comes to Islamic states is that they are generally ruled by a dictatorship which uses worship and beliefs to keep people in line including using ancient laws in some twisted way to make people fear and fall in line with the dogma on offer. The saddest thing is most of these regimes were put in place by western powers deal making at various times most notably during the First World War. Most of the war in the Middle East isn't even much to do with religion it's about settling old scores between tribes who have been feuding for centuries.


If I say "Allau Akbar" what's the first thing that comes to your mind? To me, the first thing that comes to mind is: people dying in some expolsion or jihadists firing a rifle. And why is that they killed each other for centuries? for their religious beliefs.

Thinking about it, making a simple comparison with Europe for example, Germany caused death and destruction in WW2 and yet, today in 2014 the European countries are at peace, and it was less than 80 years ago that they were killing each other. I don't resent Germany and nobody else I know does, besides our granpas who fought that war are mostly all dead by now, but even when they were alive I've never once heard my grapa say anything against Germany, and yet he was imprisoned for 2 years during WW2, in Germany.


It could be anything that these people use it's just religion is the easiest go to thing. A few decades ago the big thing that terrorist groups used was Communism but that started to go out of fashion when major powers were no longer there to fund and support it. There are however two major powers to fund and support groups fighting for one particular brand of Islam that is used by various tribal groups.

Look at Afghanistan....Tribal.....Iraq...Tribal....Yemen...Tribal you get the picture. Religious beliefs are not a huge fixture except for the fact that the countries involved are all deeply religious. The reason they quote God so often is because they believe he is on their side and that by saying "allahu akbar" they will receive protection. Western soldiers will often pray for the same reason. Does that make all their wars about religion?

Middle Eastern tribal culture also has it's own confusing set of rules and rulers unlike the western world where after many failed attempts managed to form the UN to stop anything like another world war happen again although as we have seen it's often an organization without teeth. A lot of that peace is due to the surrender and signing of new peace treaties the forming of the UN and the results of the cold war removing some spheres of influence and proxy wars although through it all the proxy wars in the Middle East still continue just dropping things like Socialism when the Soviets had a lot of influence for Extreme Islam.

Honestly if the first thing when somebody says "allahu akbar" that comes to mind then you probably never tried to learn anything about the culture of Islam.
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Posted 7/29/14

MrMoondoggie wrote:


randommangaguy wrote:


MrMoondoggie wrote:
I think the problem when it comes to Islamic states is that they are generally ruled by a dictatorship which uses worship and beliefs to keep people in line including using ancient laws in some twisted way to make people fear and fall in line with the dogma on offer. The saddest thing is most of these regimes were put in place by western powers deal making at various times most notably during the First World War. Most of the war in the Middle East isn't even much to do with religion it's about settling old scores between tribes who have been feuding for centuries.


If I say "Allau Akbar" what's the first thing that comes to your mind? To me, the first thing that comes to mind is: people dying in some expolsion or jihadists firing a rifle. And why is that they killed each other for centuries? for their religious beliefs.

Thinking about it, making a simple comparison with Europe for example, Germany caused death and destruction in WW2 and yet, today in 2014 the European countries are at peace, and it was less than 80 years ago that they were killing each other. I don't resent Germany and nobody else I know does, besides our granpas who fought that war are mostly all dead by now, but even when they were alive I've never once heard my grapa say anything against Germany, and yet he was imprisoned for 2 years during WW2, in Germany.


It could be anything that these people use it's just religion is the easiest go to thing. A few decades ago the big thing that terrorist groups used was Communism but that started to go out of fashion when major powers were no longer there to fund and support it. There are however two major powers to fund and support groups fighting for one particular brand of Islam that is used by various tribal groups.

Look at Afghanistan....Tribal.....Iraq...Tribal....Yemen...Tribal you get the picture. Religious beliefs are not a huge fixture except for the fact that the countries involved are all deeply religious. The reason they quote God so often is because they believe he is on their side and that by saying "allahu akbar" they will receive protection. Western soldiers will often pray for the same reason. Does that make all their wars about religion?

Middle Eastern tribal culture also has it's own confusing set of rules and rulers unlike the western world where after many failed attempts managed to form the UN to stop anything like another world war happen again although as we have seen it's often an organization without teeth. A lot of that peace is due to the surrender and signing of new peace treaties the forming of the UN and the results of the cold war removing some spheres of influence and proxy wars although through it all the proxy wars in the Middle East still continue just dropping things like Socialism when the Soviets had a lot of influence for Extreme Islam.

Honestly if the first thing when somebody says "allahu akbar" that comes to mind then you probably never tried to learn anything about the culture of Islam.


Find me a video of extremists fighting in Syria or nearby countries, where they don't scream "allahu akbar" while they're killing someone or simply shooting in the air, then find me a video where a western soldier praises god while holding a weapon or killing somebody. I've been wasting a lot of my time this year on YT and LiveLeaks, you've no idea what sh!t I've seen done by the jihadi extremists, even to their own people.

Honestly, even if I hear somebody says those 2 words while they're not threatening the life of others, it still scares me to sh!t.
What has been seen cannot be unseen.
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Posted 7/29/14
Islam is a rotten, backwards religion. I don't care about it anyways.
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Posted 7/29/14

randommangaguy wrote:

Find me a video of extremists fighting in Syria or nearby countries, where they don't scream "allahu akbar" while they're killing someone or simply shooting in the air, then find me a video where a western soldier praises god while holding a weapon or killing somebody. I've been wasting a lot of my time this year on YT and LiveLeaks, you've no idea what sh!t I've seen done by the jihadi extremists, even to their own people.

Honestly, even if I hear somebody says those 2 words while they're not threatening the life of others, it still scares me to sh!t.
What has been seen cannot be unseen.


You are really focusing on that huh. Soldiers fighting shout and cheer all sorts of things while fighting that's what adrenaline and being so close to death does to you. It's the same reason nearly all people on death row are all ultra religious when you feel you are about to die you think about God a lot. A lot of terrible things have been done by soldiers from all countries. It's good to see you saw all that stuff from the safety of your chair on the Internet so you can soapbox about it. I served in several countries fighting terrorist groups and I've seen things up close and personal and the smell of death never leaves you.

You know what else? I've also fought alongside Muslims too many of which want good things for their home country and to live in peace or want rid of certain groups that want to dictate to people how to think. Having a religion doesn't make you evil. Islam is not the enemy many Muslims are allied with the western forces that have fought in their countries.
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Posted 7/29/14 , edited 7/29/14

MrMoondoggie wrote:


randommangaguy wrote:

Find me a video of extremists fighting in Syria or nearby countries, where they don't scream "allahu akbar" while they're killing someone or simply shooting in the air, then find me a video where a western soldier praises god while holding a weapon or killing somebody. I've been wasting a lot of my time this year on YT and LiveLeaks, you've no idea what sh!t I've seen done by the jihadi extremists, even to their own people.

Honestly, even if I hear somebody says those 2 words while they're not threatening the life of others, it still scares me to sh!t.
What has been seen cannot be unseen.


You are really focusing on that huh. Soldiers fighting shout and cheer all sorts of things while fighting that's what adrenaline and being so close to death does to you. It's the same reason nearly all people on death row are all ultra religious when you feel you are about to die you think about God a lot. A lot of terrible things have been done by soldiers from all countries. It's good to see you saw all that stuff from the safety of your chair on the Internet so you can soapbox about it. I served in several countries fighting terrorist groups and I've seen things up close and personal and the smell of death never leaves you.

You know what else? I've also fought alongside Muslims too many of which want good things for their home country and to live in peace or want rid of certain groups that want to dictate to people how to think. Having a religion doesn't make you evil. Islam is not the enemy many Muslims are allied with the western forces that have fought in their countries.


Of course, I'd never dream of saying something like this in front of jihad followers, I'd get lynched/killed on the spot, and that's exactly what I'm soap boxing about here, nobody (in any non-islamic country) would ever dream of killing someone just because they don't like or don't believe in their religion.

I don't know you and whatever you saw, but I'll still believe you, I guess you know better than me what's going on there, but I know what I saw too, even if it was on a pc screen from thousands of miles away, it was still dead people, slowly and brutally murdered people and their murderers waved the black flag.
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Posted 7/29/14

randommangaguy wrote:


randommangaguy wrote:
if I were in an Islamic state, would I still be allowed to say what I said here, without getting imprisoned or executed?



FlyinDumpling wrote:
you'll be blown up by a Muslim extremest of you meet one.


This is the fundamental difference.
Yes, the fundamental difference between extremist and non-extremist is that one is extreme and the other is not, is that your over arching point? The vast majority of Muslims believe in the concept of jihad, it's been written and explain by the quran and Muslim scholars of Islam. There are Muslims who follow the way of a jihad who have been victims of violence by Muslims extremism. I think you are very set in what you want to believe and what you want to see. If we agree that there are different definitions of jihad then there isn't much to argue.
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Posted 7/29/14

randommangaguy wrote:

Of course, I'd never dream of saying something like this in front of jihad followers, I'd get lynched/killed on the spot, and that's exactly what I'm soap boxing about here, nobody (in any non-islamic country) would ever dream of killing someone just because they don't like or don't believe in their religion.

I don't know you and whatever you saw, but I'll still believe you, I guess you know better than me what's going on there, but I know what I saw too, even if it was on a pc screen from thousands of miles away, it was still dead people, slowly and brutally murdered people and their murderers waved the black flag.


Again you are generalizing in history people of all religions have killed over it. The Irish troubles have had many people killed over what kind of Christian they are, Sikhs and even Buddhists have picked up guns in the name of religion. This stuff is either happening now or it wasn't so long ago. The Koran teaches that they should respect others and especially those of the book (Christians and Jews) so what are these black flag waving groups doing? The Taliban were especially brutal like that where they took control in Afghanistan and parts of Pakistan you either follow their rule and heavy laws or you die. Many girls were killed for trying to get an education i remember a couple of those being particularly unpleasant to see. What you are trying to do is connect it to religion more than it is and use it to say that Islam itself is evil. Thing is the Taliban only worship their leader and they either indoctrinate you into their dogma or kill you regardless of what religion you are. Most of the people killed by the Taliban and other groups like it have been other Muslims.
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Posted 7/31/14 , edited 7/31/14
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم - "In the name of God, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful."

I read some of what you write's guys and i want to say a view point here because iam a muslim
allah akbar - this word is mean ( god is the greatest ) and we say it everyday by the way in our 5 prayers
so when any muslims pray next to you , run away because they will blow you out
and our religion tell us that every non believers who is not in war with us we can't do anything to them
allah says:
“God does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes – from dealing kindly and justly with them. Indeed, God loves those who act justly. God only forbids you from those who fight you because of religion and expel you from your homes and aid in your expulsion – (forbids) that you make allies of them. And whoever makes allies of them, then it is those who are the wrongdoers.”

and prophet muhammed say :
“Whoever kills one (non-Muslim) under contract (of Muslim protection) will never smell the scent of Paradise.”

it's mean that any country who has a peace contract with muslims we can't kill him
but any country who has war with muslims we fighting them ( jihad )
like in palastine right now every muslims have to go to jihad there , but ( muslims ruler's ) not call for it
( in islam muslims rulers only have the right to call to jihad ).

away from this :
Arnoud van Doorn a dutch former far-right politician he was spread hatred against Islam , He said that the overwhelming reaction of Muslims around the world against the film Fitna, made him interested to learn more that led his decision to convert to Islam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnoud_van_Doorn
what we muslims do for our beloved prophet leads that man to convert to islam .

allah akbar

والسلام على من اتبع الهدى






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OK, so here's the deal-i-oh: one of my most trusted friends endeavored to read the text, and he says that it's a militant one by its very nature. A quote he often brings up is something or other about knocking on Heaven's door with the skulls of God's enemies Would anyone like to address that matter specifically, or at least be able to provide interpretation of which specific part of the text he''s examining?
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Posted 10/9/14
Closed because OP nuked. Feel free to start a new thread on the subject if there isn't another already.
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