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Post Reply Kuroshitsuji (Black Butler) manga
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Posted 9/20/15
Chapter 108 of Black Butler is out!

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Posted 11/5/15
Chapter 109 of Black Butler is out!

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Posted 11/28/15
Chapter 110 of Black Butler is out!

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Posted 12/5/15 , edited 12/7/15

DarkSasword wrote:

So if suicide is how shinigami are born, does this mean that a demon is born when no trace of his human body is left behind?


Interesting idea!! Are you suggesting Vincent Phantomhive became a demon?? Hmm..... But I don't think so.

He's definitely NOT Sebastian, since Sebastian was around (in some form or other) WAY before Vincent died. Sebastian probably took that form just to look like Ciel's dad, to seem like a fatherly (and authoritative) figure.

I'd like to suggest his body burned up in the fire, but that he had already died before that. He might have taken his own life.... Undertaker tells Diedrich that Vincent is "still with us".... So, what form of Grim Reaper would be made from a person who committed suicide, but their body is unrecoverable?? Considering that suicide could be done in any number of ways, it might not matter. A body for them might just come into existence if the original is lost... Idk, but it's an idea.

Also, I'd like to point out the burning scene in season one of the anime. They show what seems to be Vincent Phantomhive, sitting there, wearing his ring. The blue one Ciel wears. However, two things are seriously off about the scene: 1. Vincent is not trying to escape or anything. 2. If you look higher up, like above the wrist, his arm has been stitched all around.... I've also seen pics showing that before the fire Vincent and Rachel's bodies were taken apart and stitched up together to make one body:

More and more evidence points to:
1. Vincent and Rachel died before the fire even started, and
2. Vincent (at least) is "still with us", suggesting he could be a Grim Reaper. There is no mention of Rachel "still with us"....

Too many possibilities here, but something is up, and Undertaker might know.
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Posted 12/5/15 , edited 12/5/15
SPOILER ALERTS ABOUND!!!!

I'm not sure where else to post this, so I'll do it here....

I have made a revelation!!

Not sure if anyone has really been discussing this yet. There's been so much talk about Cloudia/Claudia P. (definitely Phantomhive) and Alex B. (possibly Bravat), two of Undertaker's mourning lockets. However, has anyone been trying to figure out Gilbert D., who died March 1, 1885?

Well, I'm here to say I've figured that one out.... I'm pretty sure about it.

Consider the following facts:
1. Mary Jane Kelly, the last victim of Jack the Ripper (aka "Madam Red" and Grell Sutcliff), lived from 1863 to 1888. We know this from the gravestone that Ciel bought and Undertaker erected at a grave for her.

2. Thanks to Grell, Madam Red (Angelina Durless/Dalles-Burnett, Rachel Phantomhive's sister) also died that night in 1888.

3. Ciel's parents died three years before that, in December of 1885.

Lau and Madam Red commented that Ciel had shown up back at the manor just two years ago, with that odd butler at his heels, so that would have been 1886, several months after the fire.

4. The night of the fire at the manor, Angelina had shown up for a visit, and she witnessed the manor going down in flames. The death date for Vincent Phantomhive is December 14, 1885, so we can assume (for now! ) that that's also the day of the fire. Angelina had finally just recently recovered (physically, at least) from the carriage crash that took her husband and, ultimately, her unborn child (that we never knew the sex of)... sometime earlier that year.

5. The 6th (next to last, from left to right) mourning locket on Undertaker's chain is dated March 1, 1885 for Gilbert D. It's not Angelina's dead husband, who is known only (so far) as Baron Burnett. Take note that Angelina retained her maiden name by hyphenating it with her husband's surname.... This suggests that their child might also have been named Dalles-Burnett/Durless-Burnet.

6. The locket has a cross on it but nothing resembling hair. Possibly, hair was not available. Babies are often born essentially hairless. An unborn child is unlikely to have hair at all, and Undertaker might not have had access to the corpse anyway.

7. The locket also has flowers, and we all know the Victorians were big on flower symbolism. In this case, they look remarkably like baby's breath, don't they? The symbol of innocence and everlasting love.



8. We already know that Undertaker has some serious involvement in the Phantomhive family. It's been proposed, and I agree, that he's an ancestor of Ciel (but this is just conjecture). It's easy to widen it to other family lines closely related to it, by blood or even by marriage.

9. These lockets need to be for special people... with special deaths. Otherwise, why go to all the trouble to work out the death dates, names, and designs of each locket in such detail?



10. The death of an unborn child, particularly due to this sort of event, is a tragedy. It would make sense for Undertaker to place special meaning on the death of an innocent, unborn child. He says to hold every soul dear, after all. What is more dear than a baby?

I strongly believe that Gilbert D. is Angelina Durless/Dalles-Burnett's unborn child.
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Posted 12/18/15
Chapter 111 of Black Butler is out!

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Posted 2/17/16
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Posted 2/23/16
Chapter 113 of Black Butler is out!!

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Posted 3/26/16
Chapter 114 of Black Butler is out!

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