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When women say they want to be treated as equals...
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Posted 6/23/14 , edited 6/23/14

colettecocotea wrote:

This is really what feminism is:

If someone tells you otherwise, their batshit crazy and not a real feminist.


I personally agree, although oftentimes, the loud extremist minority are heard sooner than the reasonable minority or even majority of any political movement or party, religion, protest, civil rights movements, and so on. For example: Malcolm X was hardly representative of the majority of civil rights activists during his time. Sure he was representing a part of the African American community that honestly (and arguably justly) felt that extreme measures were needed to achieve civil rights, but the majority of leaders were protesting utilizing more peaceful means, and as time passed, Malcolm X changed his stance. It's all up to who can speak the loudest, and oftentimes, the extreme feminists are heard before the reasonable ones.
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Posted 6/24/14 , edited 6/24/14
When it comes to Feminism, I don't especially care, unless I start hearing or reading cruel words from radical Feminists that pertain to all males being vile, or something else along those lines. I end up seeing red, because I particularly focus on the children who are lumped in, which makes me think of progeny I may eventually have...
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Posted 6/24/14
Women and men are not genetically alike. Person to person we are not the same. There are some women who are physically capable of fighting in wars and doing a great job at it. There are some men who are awesome nurses. The major issues in gender equality that need to be addressed is base pay rate (or even being considered as hirable) for the same job for which two people are equally capable but are paid differently (or hired) based on their sex. In my opinion I treat others the way they like to be treated, based on my experience with them. Would I be more gentle and considerate to a woman that I'd just met as opposed to a man? Yes; because based on gender stereotypes that is polite, anyone who see's that as offensive has a chip on their shoulder. I say that without the intention of being offensive to people with chips on their shoulders. I get them too sometimes.
Posted 6/24/14
I find it both laughable and disturbing how so many people find giving ANY marginalized group of people--here being women--basic human rights is somehow "annoying." It really does boggle the mind.

Every single time this topic is brought up on the internet, people (mainly men and women who don't know any better) who have literally zero knowledge of feminism, its legacy, its achievements (which many women seem to forget. But since men are "superior" to women I guess it really doesn't matter how bad the past was, right OP?), and how it's so important have to spill their unfiltered, ignorant, vile misogynistic "opinions" about how if women want ("true") equality it has to be a on a man's terms which seems to be, from my observations, taking a fist to the face, preferably by a man.

Honestly, I don't understand what these anti-feminists are so upset about. Women don't have "special privileges." All these so-called "privileges" that tend to be cited are not such. These are either basic human rights like (UNPAID) maternity leave, common courtesy that usually applies to everyone---oh, but we can't have that, can we?--like giving up your seat to someone who obviously needs it more than you, or things that no one should have to do like being drafted into the military.

Honestly OP, your experience of being a woman is not everyone's reality. Just ask women of color
misogynoir [http://www.gradientlair.com/post/84107309247/define-misogynoir-anti-black-misogyny-moya-bailey-coined];
"yellow fever/Miss Saigon;" [http://everydayfeminism.com/2013/09/dating-as-an-asian-woman/]
"spicy Latina;" [http://latinasarenotafetish.tumblr.com/]
"Indian Princess;" [ http://www.racialicious.com/2012/11/12/nothing-says-native-american-heritage-month-like-white-girls-in-headdresses/]
"belly dancers" [ http://angryasiangirlsunited.tumblr.com/post/88116839526/gynocraticgrrl-suheir-hammad-not-your-erotic#notes]/ this picture--> http://english.alarabiya.net/en/media/advertising-and-pr/2013/11/04/Ad-depicting-U-S-soldier-and-Muslim-wife-met-with-positive-response.html],

queer women ( http://www.glbtq.com/social-sciences/misogyny.html/////http://www.glaad.org/blog/violence-against-transgender-people-and-people-color-disproportionately-high-lgbtqh-murder-rate),

trans women ( http://www.patheos.com/blogs/wwjtd/2012/05/murder-statistics-of-transgender-people////// http://www.feministcritics.org/blog/2008/08/24/are-transgender-people-over-a-thousand-times-more-likely-to-be-murdered-than-cisgender/ ///// http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/27/trans-murder-rates_n_3824273.html),

disabled women (https://www.kidsmatter.edu.au/health-and-community/enewsletter/female-autism-rates-potentially-under-diagnosed///// http://womenandchildren.treatment.org/GrowingUpGirls/GirlInMirror.html///// http://www.aboutourkids.org/articles/girls_adhd_overlooked_underdiagnosed_underserved///// http://www.who.int/mental_health/prevention/genderwomen/en////// http://www.autism.org.uk/about-autism/autism-and-asperger-syndrome-an-introduction/gender-and-autism/women-and-girls-on-the-autism-spectrum.aspx),

poor women, single mothers, women in the sex industry/sex workers, fat women, etc. and you'd realized that not every woman "still get[s] treated better than everyone else." I don't think I need to retype that entire list of marginalized people again to emphasize how out-of-touch you are with the rest of humanity.

But if you're okay with men not treating you as their equal simply because you're a woman then that ignorance is on you. I just want you, and any other woman who believes what OP does, is that if you're okay with unequal pay (especially if you're a woman of color because we get paid even less than what white women AND men in our racial/ethnic group makes [http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0882775.html/////http://www.aauw.org/2014/04/03/race-and-the-gender-wage-gap/]) then continue to be an anti-feminist and believe your self-worth is lesser than a man's simply because he is a man.

If you're okay with the 1/4 probability of being sexually assaulted (girls ages 16-19 being four times more likely than the general population http://www.rccmsc.org/resources/get-the-facts.aspx) and 1/6 with rape (with Native American women having the highest rate http://www.futureswithoutviolence.org/userfiles/file/Violence%20Against%20AI%20AN%20Women%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf) then continue to be an anti-feminist and believe that your self-worth is lesser than a man's simply because he is a man.

If you're okay with disproportionately facing violence ( http://www.vday.org/take-action/violence-against-women/battery-abuse#.U6klhUD0840/////http://faineemae.tumblr.com/post/84980457440///// http://www.witnessjustice.org/news/stats.cfm) and sexual harassment (http://unwinona.tumblr.com/post/30861660109/i-debated-whether-or-not-to-share-this-story/////http://i-once-had-a-guy-tell-me.tumblr.com/) then continue to be an anti-feminist and believe that your self-worth is lesser than a man's simply because he is a man.

If you're okay with being treated as a sexual object whose only purpose is to fulfill a man's pleasure and ego, and if you fail to do either you deserve death by their hands just like the UCBS killer (http://atlasleft.org/ucsb-killers-manifesto-reveals-he-thought-he-was-the-good-guy-with-a-gun-document////// http://smilesandvials.tumblr.com/post/86745436531/thepoliticalengineer-grrrls-fighting-back ) did then continue to be an anti-feminist and believe that your self-worth is lesser than a man's simply because he is a man.

If you're okay with being victim blamed (http://feministing.com/2014/06/20/the-comment-section-on-every-article-about-campus-sexual-violence-ever/#more-83181///// http://fucknorapeapologists.tumblr.com/post/88434504800/policymic-attention-george-will-this-is-what#permalink-notes) for everything that happens to you even if it was in self-defense then continue to be an anti-feminist and believe that your self-worth is lesser than a man's simply because he is a man.

If you're okay with being hypersexualized (and in the case of black women also desexualized at the same time) at a young age (http://www.apa.org/pi/women/programs/girls////// http://www.apa.org/pi/women/programs/girls/report-full.pdf//// http://fucknorapeapologists.tumblr.com/post/66513520881/puhg-s-dreaming-and-seeking-nessuhlove), especially if you're a girl of color who are exorcized and fetishized for their race/ethnicity ( http://fucknofetishization.tumblr.com/FAQ///// http://fucknofetishization.tumblr.com/tagged/How%20Fetishization%20Hurts///// http://fucknofetishization.tumblr.com/linksonracialfetishizing/////), then continue to be anti-feminist and believe that your self-worth is lesser than a man's simply because he is a man.

If you're okay with women actually getting longer sentences when they commit violent acts against men (while at the same time preaching that women and men should get equal sentencing--oh, the irony is sweet!)[ http://www.solidarity-us.org/site/node/729] while men tend to walk off (like this father here because of "affluenza:" http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/02/justice/delaware-du-pont-rape-case//////Or the original "affluenza" kid compared to a young black girl: http://swanloves.tumblr.com/post/71734314237/marfmellow-racism-is-real-misogynoir-is) then continue to be anti-feminist and believe that your self-worth is lesser than a man's simply because he is a man.

(More statistics and facts about women in prison: https://www.aclu.org/womens-rights/words-prison-did-you-know///// http://marydoodler.tumblr.com/post/28389600108///// http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/07/05/study-confirms-dark-skinned-women-get-longer-prison-sentences/)

You’re reality, OP, is not every woman’s actuality and think you really need to understand this. Not every woman is you so I suggest not painting women’s issues with such a wide brush. Just because you have “never [been] pushed to do the ridiculous stupid stuff the other guys had to do [what does that even mean? No one has to force you to do anything.] nor was I spoken to as crassly as the other guys” really doesn’t invalidate women who have experienced those things.

If I’m honest, you sound like those anti-feminists who believe that since nothing explicitly misogynistic or violent has happened to you by a man, then all other women who “complain” about such things are feminists, man-haters, and don’t deserve equality because they simply “can’t handle it” because of “emotions” and such.

Truly you sound like an ill-informed girl who is trying extra hard to be “not like most girls.” (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alexis-jane-torre/im-not-like-most-girls_b_4590697.html///// http://www.bleedingfeminism.com/2012/11/internalized-misogyny-im-not-like-most.html///// http://smellslikegirlriot.tumblr.com/post/52321973806/what-you-said-yeah-im-not-like-most-girls-most) This is especially evident in your post saying that “I've been around guys my entire life. Having grown up closer to my brother than to my sister, my friends have always been guys.”

Girls who try to be “not like most girls” often hang around men and absorb much of their misogyny and then both internalize and externalize it. Because how else can you (supposedly) be in the “boys’ club” without having internalized misogyny and actively hate women (and yourself) just as equally as they do? No “man” would want to listen to women talk about issues that are important and affect them. Women are either supposed to shut up and take care of the house/”stay in the kitchen” or face being forced back into their lane (since they “forgot” where it was) which is beneath a man’s foot.



So in conclusion, I feel bad for you OP (and anyone who agrees with her) because you simply don’t get it, and that’s a shame because you realize that men don’t see and treat you as their equal and yet you still admire them. You regurgitate their hate and truly believe that women (A.K.A. you) don’t deserve humanity simply because you are a woman. That is really sad. It hurts, actually.

Well, it’s up to you whether you learn or not. I gave links so you can self-educate but I doubt you’ll use them. I doubt any one on this site will because it is the internet and this is a forum post on women having basic rights.

Anyhow, I did my job. Don’t expect long rebuttals or flame wars from me. It’s up to everyone else to ask themselves if they’ve learned anything.
Posted 6/24/14 , edited 6/24/14
Wow way to be insulting and condescending.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nvYyGTmcP80
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Posted 6/24/14
I cringed as soon as I saw this thread and am not going to read any more of it (yeah, I'm getting a single self-indulgent post in).

When people demand "equality," their goal is equal rights and treatment under the law. This strawman argument of "don't feminists realize that men and women aren't exactly the same?" is silly. Of course. No one is exactly the same. But that doesn't mean there can't be equal status in society by laws and rights.
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Posted 6/24/14
there is a type of feminism that i applaud and condone.the type that gives property rights to women,the type that gives women the right to vote or be president or the right to hold a job and /or not to be discriminated in housing,govt services etc etc
now i am pretty against what i call radical feminism who tells women that all men are potential rapists or that you dont need men or that you are better than men.this type of feminism has done a number to the american family and even judicial system.

women used to be caretakers,wives and mothers and now they dont like that but have chose to be "liberated" from men and kids to be the slave of a corporation or the govt.they have in fact become materialists in the sense that having a title or a job is what really defines them and not their natural way of being a woman.sure, i do agree that not every woman out there is fit to marry or even have kids.but thanks to pernicious feminism most american households are being raised by one parent and a country full of single parented kids is a country that is its future in jeopardy to say the least.

also, consider this women are choosing careers first right.at 18 to 35 they spent their most fertile life either studying or working and by the time they are in the 30's is or even 40's is late to have and raise kids because of potential health hazards and the fact that when the woman will be pretty much old and tired when her child(ren) are 15-17 years old.

i have a relative that chose to have kids by her 30's and now she is lamenting to have the kids so late because of this issue.by the time her older kid is 12 she is going to be in the mid forties!

lastly, i am not saying that women should not work and depend everything on a man because quite frankly there are dudes out there that are bad husbands and fathers but having a title should NOT be a priority if a female is thinking of having kids .....
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Posted 6/24/14

mdmrn wrote:

I think a lot of people mix up equality with sameness. We obviously want equality under the law. We want equal enforcement of the law between men & women. We want women to have the same opportunities as men in the work force and to be paid the same for the same job. We want men to not be treated as superior to women.

That said, we should not strive for sameness. A man can not give birth to a child. Women are (on average) physically weaker than men. These aren't sexist to point out, but biological facts which we should cherish and celebrate. We all have different roles and different abilities. This isn't a bad thing. I can't do all the things my wife can do and vice versa.


^ this
Posted 6/24/14 , edited 6/24/14

MeikoAkizukiMB wrote:



And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why I cannot stand feminism and listening to feminists. Because if anyone is doing the bullying in this society, it would be them.. Because although I clearly stated that I am merely pointing out my own experiences and asked others to share their own, I'm suddenly very much mistaken and "don't get it," thus being some kind of misogynist who hates herself as well.. That I should somehow be pitied for holding the beliefs I do and living the way I have is insulting to say the least.. And that I am somehow a complete ignorant who must be educated and made to realize that I am truly a victim of men and this extremely misogynistic society is very much just sickening.

I created this thread in the quest to gain knowledge because as I've mentioned perhaps I'm wrong and other people have had other experiences. And honestly, I've gained a lot by reading through the responses. I've realized that equality need not disregard common courtesy so long as it is granted to everyone.. I've also realized that some of my examples are too extreme especially regarding pregnant women. To be honest, I have very much enjoyed reading through and digesting everyone's post, that is until I got to this one..

My idea coming into this thread was that I would take in everything I can learn from it to help me formulate a better understanding of the topic and maybe, just maybe change my mind and my views on certain things. This post, however, has unfortunately made me think twice about doing that. Mostly out of spite from the sheer propaganda-like persuasion tactics being used to somehow guilt me or perhaps shame me into changing my mind and simply accepting the fact that women, myself include, are all victims of injustices perpetuated by men. But you know what, it's not gonna happen because I'm a free woman and I refuse to be told what to think and how I should feel about certain topics, not by men and not by women either. I am perfectly capable of forming my own opinions and conducting my own research, thank you very much. So please go and take your haughty, extremist ideals somewhere else because the only thing you've done here is solidify my disdain for modern day feminism.

P.S. Since Phogan posted the video already, I might as well post this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2KPeMcYsuc which pretty much sums up my general experience and opinions on so-called feminists.
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Posted 6/24/14


This post feels like a parody of what femininsts actually say.

"...and how it's so important have to spill their unfiltered, ignorant, vile misogynistic "opinions" about how if women want ("true") equality it has to be a on a man's terms which seems to be, from my observations, taking a fist to the face, preferably by a man."
-So your idea of other people's idea of "true" equality is taking a male fist to the face.

"...common courtesy that usually applies to everyone---oh, but we can't have that, can we?--like giving up your seat to someone who obviously needs it more than you..."
- Are you saying women 'obviously' need seats more than most?

"if you're okay with unequal pay (especially if you're a woman of color because we get paid even less than what white women AND men in our racial/ethnic group makes"
-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwogDPh-Sow

" Because how else can you (supposedly) be in the “boys’ club” without having internalized misogyny and actively hate women (and yourself) just as equally as they do?"
-She can only hang out with men unless she internalizes and externalizes hate against women?

"No “man” would want to listen to women talk about issues that are important and affect them."
-Ignoring the apparent hate on all men, are you saying that feminists, who happen to be male, don't care about women's issues?

"Women are either supposed to shut up and take care of the house/”stay in the kitchen” or face being forced back into their lane (since they “forgot” where it was) which is beneath a man’s foot."
-pretty sure this post is a parody on feminist arguments...

"You regurgitate their hate and truly believe that women (A.K.A. you) don’t deserve humanity simply because you are a woman."
-I'm pretty sure OP knows what they believe in, and I'm pretty sure it is not that she doesn't deserve humanity because she is a woman...
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Posted 6/24/14 , edited 6/24/14
This tread somehow gained my attention since I was interested in women opinion on this topic.

One thing that I have to say to all feminists here is please get real and face reality. I don't know what you've been through in your life or what made you think about men in such way but it's obviously a personal problem rather than claim of equality. What I want to say is that almost all feminists are just demanding and not giving. You see society does not work this way. And because the majority on this forum is living in western world which grants equality to all, should say that grants more privileges to women than men.

It is true that through all human history women were abused and inferior to men since were men who are actually stronger that were deciding on everything and "ruling" the world. But everything changed in 20th century. Women stood up together and faced men so they could achieve so called equality at least on paper. But today women have more rights and privileges than men do.

And please do not be so self centered because there are people still suffering in this world and in some Islamic countries women are still treated as subjects. As feminists you should be fighting for their rights and be thankful for what you have. I do not know how things are in the States but in Europe they're equal on almost all aspects. And what else do you want? You want men to be inferior to women? The opposite as it was before? Aren't you like little spoiled children? You get respect from men and you women possess ability to make men fall for you and sometimes manipulate them.

So please we live in 21st century. As someone said before we are equal but not similar which is only natural since we are biologically different. Also we are not only physically different but mentally as well. Therefore some things that are good for one party might be bad for other.

And one last thing which might be a little offensive so please forgive me if you do not fit this description. Women gained so much freedom that they have become corrupted by it. You see these days it's hard to find decent girls. You see many girls don't even know how to cook or how to take care of their household. Even basic chores are too much for them to handle. On other hand they want attention they want to be seen and love to play with mans feelings. Laughing even when there's nothing funny and behave unladylike. That actually repels rather than appeals. That's why sometimes women are looked down on.

Oh and please, of course men might have some advantage when you're applying for job especially if it includes some labor. It goes same for secretary where women are majority and because of their ability to process and do more things at the same time.

The point is why do people always try to divide and argue among themselves. It's not problem with disagreeing and having different opinions. The problem is that it's hard to accept that we're different and intolerance causes arguing which leads to hate each other.

Women and men cannot exist without each other. Even though we are so different we can live together happily. Sadly there are also people that hinders our lives and sow hate and quarrels among us. These people are extremists be it feminism religion or anything else they want to create utopia despite their delusive thinking. They won't listen to peoples arguments and at least give the the chance to prove they're right...

Well I got carried away a little but anyway my opinion that feminism is not a good thing. Even if it is for equality between men and women still at the end it favors only one party. There are always two sides of one coin. Why don't we compromise and try to build a better society with understanding each other?
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Posted 6/24/14
This is a topic, no one should bring up (unless you want yourself killed)
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Posted 6/24/14 , edited 6/24/14
Ya know I'm really starting to think that all these feminism threads utterly explode on CR due to all the rampant misogyny in a crapload of anime created for the male demographic. Seriously just, freaking fanservice (which oversexualizes women as opposed to men both in quantity and in execution, yes I am taking FREE! into account here lol) and ridiculously male-centered plot lines where women do nothing but oodle over the main male character need to stop, CR folks are internalizing it.

Also, for some of the anti-fems, women are not the "ones who must stay at home and pop out kids", just because only females can get pregnant today, and marriage is not just "an institution for babymaking". For starters, it's called adoption, the world is overpopulated enough as it is, and men are just as capable of childcare when women cease breastfeeding or both decide to use formula instead. Oh and not all women (or men for that matter) are fertile anyway and this world generally sucks, so most men and women want some form of companionship to get through their lives. A sexual relationship between any combination of sexes or genders can be comforting, and I don't see the issue of using marriage for that purpose.
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Posted 6/24/14

MeikoAkizukiMB wrote:



Do you really expect us to read all of that? I see everyone as a equal to me no matter what gender/group they belong to, unless I've been given a reason to not treat someone as a equal.


demongurrl13 wrote:

tactics being used to somehow guilt me or perhaps shame me into changing my mind and simply accepting the fact that women, myself include, are all victims of injustices perpetuated by men.


If you don't like the thread then you could always flag your own post and ask the mods if they can lock and close the thread.

Anyways, most people that I know look at females/woman as their equal. I find it hard to even believe that there are anyone in any western country that hates females. Plus this is a forum that anyone can use and access and therefore extreme groups of feminists/feminist haters will flock onto this page, don't feel guilty... You did a great job by taking this up, since most people would never start a tread like this one.
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Posted 6/24/14
Women are allowed to serve as combat soldiers now so that goes a long way.

That reminds me of a funny story. I was a bouncer in a club in my city late one Sunday night. Out of the corner of my eye I saw a woman being punched on the face by a man. She hit the ground by the time I got to them. A co-worker and I tackle him, rough him up then throw him outside. A few moments later everyone in the club runs out and begin curb-stomping the man, including the woman he punched in the face.

I don't know why that came to mind. Maybe it's because even though a woman could never match a man in physical strength, the whole point is irrelevant when you are being attacked by an angry mob... Yeah that's it.
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