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Post Reply Fairy Tail Chapters 334~361 and Attack on Titan Chapters 46~51 Going Back In The Vault 6/30
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Posted 6/30/14

Bullbound wrote:

After all, why sell one license when you can sell a few thousand prints for a bigger boost to the bottom line? It is sad that stuff has to go into the vault because of this, but at least we got to enjoy the fun while it was available.


The question is not if they have to do one or the other, rather, what about doing both? They work under the assumption that leaving the scans online will somehow ruin their sales but that's just stupid. If I'm an avid one-time casual reader I already read them on CR; I won't bother to buy volumes, and taking them off CR will only boost pirate sites. If I'm a fan, I will buy the volumes anyway, ESPECIALLY if you make the little effort of giving me something more for the effort: a better translation, some goodies/posters, etc. That's all it takes. And they'd give people the impression that there is a PLACE to read things legally on the internet if you just don't have any comic book shops to find them. Internet readers aren't just cheap; they are accessible. This is something that most publishers seem to underestimate.
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Posted 6/30/14
Exactly the reason why I wont subscribe to this service. Why pay for something you can't own.
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Posted 6/30/14

Mattumanu wrote:

Exactly the reason why I wont subscribe to this service. Why pay for something you can't own.

I'm guessing for your living accommodations, you are paying a mortgage rather than rent, correct?

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Posted 6/30/14 , edited 6/30/14

TheAncientOne wrote:


Mattumanu wrote:

Exactly the reason why I wont subscribe to this service. Why pay for something you can't own.

I'm guessing for your living accommodations, you are paying a mortgage rather than rent, correct?



Even if I were, a landlord wouldn't say to me, "sorry, but due to licensing restriction your apartment is on hiatus for the next 6 months, but we still expect you to pay your rent nonetheless". That was a nice try. That's called Apples and Oranges. I know that at the moment you feel protected from shame due to the distance and internet, but regardless of your identity status, you still come off as stupid.
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Posted 6/30/14 , edited 6/30/14

Mattumanu wrote:

Even if I were, a landlord wouldn't say to me, "sorry, but due to licensing restriction your apartment is on hiatus for the next 6 months, but we still expect you to pay your rent nonetheless". That was a nice try. That's called Apples and Oranges. I know that at the moment you feel protected from shame due to the distance and internet, but regardless of your identity status, you still come off as stupid.

You come off as some one easily offended.

Your analogy fails, as CR isn't putting all manga on hiatus for the next 6 months. A more apt analogy would be an apartment complex closing some facilities for that period. Of course, the analogy would have to also include it opening up new facilities (i.e, CR adding new titles) from time to time.

Your statement indicated you prefer ownership over "rental". Despite your antagonism, thank you for clarifying your true stance.

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Posted 6/30/14

TheGordianNot wrote:


Bullbound wrote:

After all, why sell one license when you can sell a few thousand prints for a bigger boost to the bottom line? It is sad that stuff has to go into the vault because of this, but at least we got to enjoy the fun while it was available.


The question is not if they have to do one or the other, rather, what about doing both? They work under the assumption that leaving the scans online will somehow ruin their sales but that's just stupid. If I'm an avid one-time casual reader I already read them on CR; I won't bother to buy volumes, and taking them off CR will only boost pirate sites. If I'm a fan, I will buy the volumes anyway, ESPECIALLY if you make the little effort of giving me something more for the effort: a better translation, some goodies/posters, etc. That's all it takes. And they'd give people the impression that there is a PLACE to read things legally on the internet if you just don't have any comic book shops to find them. Internet readers aren't just cheap; they are accessible. This is something that most publishers seem to underestimate.


If the scans are online for free and there isn't a need to pirate them, folks still pirate them. Welcome to the internet.

Yes, they could add all sorts of things to the pay-to-own such as taking a black and white online version and making it color. Adding a few extras is nice too. If you like something, you can always support the publisher by buying it even when available for free. What surprises me is how often folks do not say, "Thank you for having offered this content," and "Thank you for allowing me to see this for free and legally." CR is told they have to pull product, they are going to pull it. But the content was available for some time, and that is thanks to the efforts of CR.

There is a downside of being an open and legal site where we get to enjoy stuff in advance of it being publicly available. We did get to enjoy this great content while it was available and those that are sad to see it disappear, truly sad, are hopefully willing to support the publishers by buying the content when it is available for purchase through a website or at a store.
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Posted 6/30/14

Bullbound wrote:


TheGordianNot wrote:


Bullbound wrote:

After all, why sell one license when you can sell a few thousand prints for a bigger boost to the bottom line? It is sad that stuff has to go into the vault because of this, but at least we got to enjoy the fun while it was available.


The question is not if they have to do one or the other, rather, what about doing both? They work under the assumption that leaving the scans online will somehow ruin their sales but that's just stupid. If I'm an avid one-time casual reader I already read them on CR; I won't bother to buy volumes, and taking them off CR will only boost pirate sites. If I'm a fan, I will buy the volumes anyway, ESPECIALLY if you make the little effort of giving me something more for the effort: a better translation, some goodies/posters, etc. That's all it takes. And they'd give people the impression that there is a PLACE to read things legally on the internet if you just don't have any comic book shops to find them. Internet readers aren't just cheap; they are accessible. This is something that most publishers seem to underestimate.


If the scans are online for free and there isn't a need to pirate them, folks still pirate them. Welcome to the internet.

Yes, they could add all sorts of things to the pay-to-own such as taking a black and white online version and making it color. Adding a few extras is nice too. If you like something, you can always support the publisher by buying it even when available for free. What surprises me is how often folks do not say, "Thank you for having offered this content," and "Thank you for allowing me to see this for free and legally." CR is told they have to pull product, they are going to pull it. But the content was available for some time, and that is thanks to the efforts of CR.

There is a downside of being an open and legal site where we get to enjoy stuff in advance of it being publicly available. We did get to enjoy this great content while it was available and those that are sad to see it disappear, truly sad, are hopefully willing to support the publishers by buying the content when it is available for purchase through a website or at a store.


This guilt-tripping thing is stupid imho, and what's more stupid is that people actually buys into it. Piracy isn't something that exists because people are jerks. Piracy exists because the internet made the price of distribution of media drop to near zero, and the industry, instead of rallying behind it and trying to adequate itself, just stubbornly tried to sell the same shit at the same price as always. Things like Crunchyroll, or Steam and GOG.com in the field of games, show that things are changing, but only so much.
Lots of people reads manga on pirate sites, so much manga that they would NEVER buy as much anyway. There's kids who don't have enough money. There's people who moves often because of temp jobs and doesn't want to have physical copies of stuff. Paper is heavy, takes dust in, maybe I want to have a physical copy only of my most valued comics and am perfectly okay with having digital for the others, don't you think? Isn't there a possible level of commitment between "meh, don't care" and "TAKE MY MONEY!"? Web readers and streaming services aren't the same product in a different wrapping, they are A DIFFERENT PRODUCT. And people who has money can be willing to give it, but only so much, because they don't want to spend 15 $ for a full volume, they only want to spend .50 $ for a file. That's a demand that simply isn't meeting an offer - not when this kind of asinine things happen.



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Posted 6/30/14 , edited 6/30/14

TheGordianNot wrote:

Piracy isn't something that exists because people are jerks. Piracy exists because the internet made the price of distribution of media drop to near zero, and the industry, instead of rallying behind it and trying to adequate itself, just stubbornly tried to sell the same shit at the same price as always.

Piracy exists because people want things for free, and with extremely rare exceptions they can get away with it with no consequences.

People also see it as a victimless crime (i.e. "I'm not taking anything", and "I wouldn't have purchased it anyway"), which eases their conscience.

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Posted 6/30/14

TheAncientOne wrote:


TheGordianNot wrote:

Piracy isn't something that exists because people are jerks. Piracy exists because the internet made the price of distribution of media drop to near zero, and the industry, instead of rallying behind it and trying to adequate itself, just stubbornly tried to sell the same shit at the same price as always.

Piracy exists because people want things for free, and with extremely rare exceptions they can get away with it with no consequences.

People also see it as a victimless crime (i.e. "I'm not taking anything", and "I wouldn't have purchased it anyway"), which eases their conscience.



People wants things for free, sure, but if that was the only factor in play, why would people even buy stuff anymore? Evidently because not everyone wants everything for free; people is okay with paying a sum if it means getting better, more consistent service; a good that looks more solid/collectible to them; or simply feeling that they're supporting a creator they care about. But there is a problem of perceived value: digital media have made reproduction so cheap that it's really hard to buy the notion that a movie is worth 20 $ - most of which go into a DVD, case, and transport I don't really need anyway. Of course having the possibility of getting things for free is tempting, but companies won't take that temptation away by being jerks. Look at this case: the manga was on CR. Who wanted to read it legally could, for a small fee. But now it's taken away, for no reason. Leaving it wouldn't reasonably have affected the sales, but the old fashioned reasoning that "if it's available for a lower price, people will get it at that price, so we need to take away that option to get them to buy our volumes" won. Which is completely idiotic because the manga is STILL out there at a lower price: it's available on a thousand pirate sites, for free. CR could compete with that. Volume sales can't. They're aimed at a different, more restricted public; they're a different product. Companies simply have to stop pretending that piracy is something that exists by accident and will eventually be wiped out. It's a lost battle. They should rather do what they can to fit into a world where the price of media is maybe lower, but in exchange, they can access many more customers and sell in places where the usual distribution networks wouldn't get. Things are not going to go back to how they used to be - they never do.
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Posted 6/30/14 , edited 6/30/14

TheAncientOne wrote:
People also see it as a victimless crime (i.e. "I'm not taking anything", and "I wouldn't have purchased it anyway"), which eases their conscience.


Yup, that is a big driving force behind it from the few studies I have seen done about it. Most of those studies are probably biased since it is the distributors whom are trying to figure out the reason, without using just a little bit of common sense. Free vs I have to give something I value...



TheGordianNot wrote:
People wants things for free, sure, but if that was the only factor in play, why would people even buy stuff anymore? Evidently because not everyone wants everything for free; people is okay with paying a sum if it means getting better, more consistent service; a good that looks more solid/collectible to them; or simply feeling that they're supporting a creator they care about. But there is a problem of perceived value: digital media have made reproduction so cheap that it's really hard to buy the notion that a movie is worth 20 $ - most of which go into a DVD, case, and transport I don't really need anyway. [...] Things are not going to go back to how they used to be - they never do.

People in general do not like change. This has been an ongoing issue for a long time. I can still remember when I first heard an economics professor whom taught; value is only what the customer is willing to pay. This is an extremely basic and fundamental idea. But as long as folks are willing and continue to pay the higher amount...you are facing a challenge tantamount to the myth of Sisyphus. Folks are still willing to pay, so there is no forced need to change. While it is true that you do not feel it is appropriate to pay for all the "fluff" surrounding the product (e.g. case, physical copy, shipping, production cost of actual item, etc.) there are enough folks that feel it is acceptable. Until more folks align with you and stop making purchases...

But then again, even CR offers DVDs and Blu-Ray discs for some of the shows that can be watched for free on the site. If you don't have all the gadgets that allow you to stream to your television, you may buy the discs. Often there are extras, but not always. There are others whom buy them too. There is still a market with consumers so it is likely to continue until that market and consumer base is no longer profitable. This applies to the manga too. All I can say about the entire situation at this time is; C'est la vie. Until the world as a whole changes, we are left to deal with what we have in the here and now.
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Posted 7/1/14
OK, what's with changing the dates in the OP? And no notation of what was modified? It originally said we had until the 4th of July. I come back today on the 1st intending to catch up and I find those chapters no longer available. It is disappointing and annoying that I'll have to search out those "other sources" to catch up.
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Posted 7/1/14 , edited 7/2/14

bluegrokk wrote:

OK, what's with changing the dates in the OP? And no notation of what was modified? It originally said we had until the 4th of July. I come back today on the 1st intending to catch up and I find those chapters no longer available. It is disappointing and annoying that I'll have to search out those "other sources" to catch up.


THIS COMMENT IS BASICALLY EXACTLY HOW I FEEL.

I am happy that I wasn't the only one who just logged on today to catchup before the 4th of July date to find all the chapters suddenly gone with no warning. The fact that there was no notion of the date being modified is especially what makes me feel just terrible. It is one thing to push the date back, but to push it forward and then not even specify or make an addendum is just, well, unprofessional. I really liked the manga service, and I hope this isn't how they will be doing things from now on. It is incredibly frustrating and disheartening as a customer.

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Posted 7/1/14

GordanHam wrote:

I am happy that I wasn't the only one who just logged on today to catchup before the 4th of July date to find all the chapters suddenly gone with now warning.

Perhaps it is something contagious. Daisuki did something similar: Announced the Gundam series on their site would be going away on July 4, but they are already gone.

It is bad enough to be faced with only having a few days to catch up only to have the rug pulled out from under you.

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Posted 7/2/14
If the manga is made available in print in the USA, why does CR still have to remove the manga for non-US residents? I understand that licensing agreements influence stuff like that, but I still don't understand why readers from other countries have to be affected.
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Posted 7/22/14
Sorry to bump up an old thread like this, but I just caught up on the printed volumes of Attack on Titan and they end at Chapter 50 in Volume 12. I was hoping to start reading the latest chapters here on CR, but it looks like it starts at Chapter 52! I was wondering if this is a mistake, or will I have to wait for Volume 13 to be released in print before I can get up to date?

Thanks in advance!
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