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Scottish Independence
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27 / M
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Posted 6/27/14
This September Scotland is voting on whether it should remain a part of the United Kingdom or become an independent state. Where to you fall in the debate and if you live in the UK or Ireland for that matter what do you make of this whole situation?

If Scotland wants control of it's policies, military and ultimately it's future I think independence is the best way forward.
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26 / M / Pandemonium
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Posted 6/27/14 , edited 6/27/14
I don't know about the politics involved or how it may impact them economicly and other such important stuff, but ideologicly, I support scottish independence.
Of course I do. The scots be awesome. :D

This also reminds me of a couple comics by Humon regarding this topic. :3

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33 / M / Baltimore, MD
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Posted 6/27/14
I've been watching this closely. Peaceful secession doesn't happen very often in recent history, so it will be interesting to see. That said, if polling is to be believed, it doesn't look likely to be approved by Scottish voters. Here's a link to Wikipedia with compiled polls:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_Scottish_independence_referendum,_2014


That said - there's a lot of time between now & September.
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33 / M / Sydney, Australia
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Posted 6/29/14
I'm Australian, my partner is a UK citizen from England. I don't care much for Scotland's nationalism at present (I find a great deal of it to be childish and unproductive), but I'm a big supporter of national sovereignty.

Ideologically? Sure! If a country decides they want to control their own affairs instead of being a weak part of a group, then good luck to them. I hope they prosper and that they secede in a way that keeps relationships strong and positive.

Realistically? Nope! Scotland can't support itself financially. It simply doesn't have the infrastructure, money, assets, or industry to self sustain at the moment and pulling away from England would mean some terrible hardship for the citizens and crippling debt for quite some time. On top of that, the knock-on effects to education and industry would hobble them even more right out of the gate. It's simply not feasible right now.

If Scotland were to spend the next two decades getting the house in order, I think they should definitely do it. But only after some serious planning that just hasn't happened yet.
Posted 6/29/14 , edited 6/29/14
scots will endure short term suffering for long term prosperity if they vote independence in my opinion. realistically, england will suffer :D

i don't like laying out details, do some extensive reading on the possibilities in store for scotland if you are interested
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Posted 6/29/14 , edited 6/29/14
I have a friend in Scotland who strongly opposes Scottish independence and I can understand why. Though nationalism can serve as a constructive force, providing a group of people a strong sense of national identity, in this case, Scottish nationalism will bring disaster. Scotland depends too heavily on England right now and to break off would entail economic crisis.

Instead of polarizing differences, Scotland should focus more on domestic issues like boosting its economy. Only after Scotland demonstrates that it can sustain itself should it consider leaving England.

Thus, I don't support Scottish independence at the moment, but matters can change in the future.
Xan015 
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32 / M / London UK
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Posted 7/3/14 , edited 7/3/14
As an Brit/Englishman this debate interests me quite a lot. I personally would like to see the UK stay together, but I do understand the other point of view - the idea of inedpendence must be very tempting.

The main problem I have is what I have heard regarding the Scottish White Paper (which is, essentially, the SNPs blueprint for independence). While I should point out I have not read it, it feels to me like Alex Salmond is trying to have his cake and eat it. It seems extremely optimistic, assuming he and the SNP will get his way in all of the negotiations that would follow a successful vote for independence. His white paper, therefore, feels far more like a negotiating starting point than an actual statement of how things could be. For me, at best it is naive, at worst disingenuous.

If Scotland does vote for independence, I would really like for it to be a watershed moment where the Scots and the rest of the UK (the English in particular) can put aside all old grudges and can move forward with a new found respect for one another. The white paper the SNP have produced, along with the politicians in Westminster, means I fear that is impossible. If the new independent Scottish nation does not get at least most of what is in the White Paper, it could cause more resentment in Scotland towards Westminster (unless Alex Salmond proves absolutely hapless in his negotiations). On the other side of the coin, David Cameron (and his successor if he loses the next general election) know they cannot be seen to give in too much to Scotland, lest they cause more resentment towards the Scots on this side of the border - many already resent Scottish MPs for having a say on exclusively English matters, and if things were mostly to go as the SNP wanted (e.g. students from other parts of the UK still have to pay tuition fees in Scotland despite them, presumably, joining the EU as a separate country) then while those politicians in Westminster would probably still get blame, there would be more resentment towards Scotland as well.

I think what is going to end up happening is that the Scots will reject independence (although the majority may be far narrower than many predict) and they will get Devo Max instead (where Westminster grants Scotland more powers over areas such as income tax I believe).

Anyway, there are a very interesting few months ahead!

(tl;dr: Scotland will stay in the UK but get more power anyway.)
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40 / F / Scotland
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Posted 7/6/14
I'm Scottish so will be voting in the ref but as of yet i don't know which way I will vote, In order to make up my mind i'll be doing a MOOC ( massive open online course) via futurelearn which starts in August.
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32 / M
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Posted 7/6/14
I honestly don't care if Scotland becomes independent or not but looking at the reasons to do so versus the reasons to stay in the UK it just all seems a bit pointless to go and devide up a small island into scraps of land. They have their own name, own flag,own parliment,councils etc etc so what are they really gaining by pulling out of the UK? It's nationalism for the sake of it after they get independence what then? Nothing changes it's the same thing just with less free stuff at the benefit of British taxpayer money XD. Let's go all the way and give Wales and Cornwall indpeendence tiny scraps of land for all XD.
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27 / M
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Posted 7/6/14

MrMoondoggie wrote:

I honestly don't care if Scotland becomes independent or not but looking at the reasons to do so versus the reasons to stay in the UK it just all seems a bit pointless to go and devide up a small island into scraps of land. They have their own name, own flag,own parliment,councils etc etc so what are they really gaining by pulling out of the UK? It's nationalism for the sake of it after they get independence what then? Nothing changes it's the same thing just with less free stuff at the benefit of British taxpayer money XD. Let's go all the way and give Wales and Cornwall indpeendence tiny scraps of land for all XD.


The main argument it would seem is political. But one that stuck with me is the idea of using their military to wage wars they didn't start. i.e. Iraq, Afghanistan. I compare it to the US where the separate states have their own military but means nothing in the face of an order from the commander-in-chief. You might not agree with the war and send your young soldiers out there to die for something you perceive to have no part of.
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32 / M
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Posted 7/6/14

MysticGon wrote:

The main argument it would seem is political. But one that stuck with me is the idea of using their military to wage wars they didn't start. i.e. Iraq, Afghanistan. I compare it to the US where the separate states have their own military but means nothing in the face of an order from the commander-in-chief. You might not agree with the war and send your young soldiers out there to die for something you perceive to have no part of.


Are you kidding? hahaThe Scottish love a good war tons of special forces soldiers in the British military are Scottish they are real nutters. Like half the SAS are Scottish.
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27 / M
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Posted 7/6/14

MrMoondoggie wrote:


MysticGon wrote:

The main argument it would seem is political. But one that stuck with me is the idea of using their military to wage wars they didn't start. i.e. Iraq, Afghanistan. I compare it to the US where the separate states have their own military but means nothing in the face of an order from the commander-in-chief. You might not agree with the war and send your young soldiers out there to die for something you perceive to have no part of.


Are you kidding? hahaThe Scottish love a good war tons of special forces soldiers in the British military are Scottish they are real nutters. Like half the SAS are Scottish.


Then maybe it war are their own terms. It might be better is the long run lest it turn into another Ireland.
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23 / M / Aberystwyth, Wale...
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Posted 7/12/14
As a Welshman, I'm rooting for the Scots to vote for independence because that increases the chance Welsh independence will get a shot (lots of people actually say in polls that they would vote for independence if Scotland was independent, but wouldn't as things are now), and we'll be able to have the best flag in the world be a proper national flag that actually matters internationally, and the same for the best national anthem in the world.
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24 / M / Osaka
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Posted 7/13/14 , edited 7/13/14

MysticGon wrote:


MrMoondoggie wrote:

I honestly don't care if Scotland becomes independent or not but looking at the reasons to do so versus the reasons to stay in the UK it just all seems a bit pointless to go and devide up a small island into scraps of land. They have their own name, own flag,own parliment,councils etc etc so what are they really gaining by pulling out of the UK? It's nationalism for the sake of it after they get independence what then? Nothing changes it's the same thing just with less free stuff at the benefit of British taxpayer money XD. Let's go all the way and give Wales and Cornwall indpeendence tiny scraps of land for all XD.


The main argument it would seem is political. But one that stuck with me is the idea of using their military to wage wars they didn't start. i.e. Iraq, Afghanistan. I compare it to the US where the separate states have their own military but means nothing in the face of an order from the commander-in-chief. You might not agree with the war and send your young soldiers out there to die for something you perceive to have no part of.

I think this is an interesting point. The way the 'yes' Scots feel on this point is really no different to how the rest of the UK feels. The annoyance and frustration about our political class has reached boiling point and this new momentum for independence is a testament to that. Nobody has faith in Westminster, and many Scots feel like they have a better alternative. Do I think Iraq was a big mistake? Yes. Do I think that for a tiny country, independence-without-a-plan is a sound course of action? Nope.

Not directing this at you at all, but I just sort of roll my eyes at how many non-Brits support independence thoughtlessly. "I love the Scottish!" is so condescending, it totally reeks of Mel Gibson's arse and fashionable politics.
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32 / M / United Kingdom
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Posted 7/14/14
I'd personally like to see Scotland remain part of the union. However this is a decision that needs and must be made by the people of Scotland. We live in a democracy and freedom must always be preserved. Now while I think we're stronger together, I understand completely if the people of Scotland decided they wanted to go out on their own and I would be the first to wish them the best of luck in all future endeavours. However I hope in my heart that they decided to stick with the union.
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