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Magic (Magick) Real or Not? I want to hear your thoughts
Posted 6/28/14

themeliorist wrote:


MeikoAkizukiMB wrote:

This conversation, therefore, was fun and engaging, but I'd like to stop it here. I appreciate what you had to say, but I'll continue to believe what I believe even though I don't think your intention was to persuade me or challenge my beliefs.

Thanks for the in-depth discussion and I hope I wasn't too hard to understand. Despite writing a lot, verbalizing and communicating what I'm trying to say can sometimes be confusing.


You're right, I wasn't trying to change your beliefs at all, just trying to make sure you realize that if someone doesn't believe you it's not necessarily because they're passing judgement on you as a person. The fact that I can't accept your claim does not mean I am therefore making the assumption that you're a liar, or that you're delusional or stupid. It's totally reasonable to respond to your story with skepticism, but not with hostility.

I had no difficulty understanding you.


~I don't mean to double post!~

--------

Ah, okay. I guess I was the only one having difficulty understanding a little! Lol.

I'm glad that everything's cleared up.

It was fun conversating with you. I like having conversations with older people (please don't take that as an insult) because I usually leave learning about something more even if I don't quite catch it entirely the first time around/until I'm told more explicitly the intent behind what one is saying.

Hopefully this happens again.

Posted 6/28/14
I don't believe in magic.

Everything in this universe can be explained by science and mathematics. The universe has set laws that it must follow. Discovering those rules and laws are what constitute "science". Science isn't about guessing or making things up. It's about observing the universe.
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Posted 6/28/14 , edited 6/28/14


But I have to ask, do you have any "psychic" powers or are highly intuitive? My mom is very much an intuitive person (which your dad could be too; he seems very similar to my mom, at least in terms of life-altering events happening to them) which I admire because I think my intuition is slightly "above average" but since I constantly doubt myself and need "rational" backing I tend to distrust it. Being indecisive doesn't help either.


Sorry to hear about your grandma, and the mad car your mum was forced to drive...sounds tough, and very dangerous.
You seem to know a lot more than me about this whole type of thing. I guess I would say I'm similar to you then, though I've never really experienced things like my dad or granddad have (although I'd love to experience these kind of things - not the kind that endangered mine or others lives though).

Although, there was this one time when I was coming back from school and as I walked past the front garden of my house I had this random feeling. I looked down through some bushes and in the mud there was this brown doll type thing lying perfectly straight as if someone put it there intentionally (it looked quite freaky actually), it was not a rag doll although it reminded me of one. A few weeks later I was walking home from school and I had another weird feeling. I looked down to the same spot and this time there was another doll lying next to in a similar way. At this point I questioned my parents about it because it was just a bit weird. A few days later I was curious to check again (no feeling this time) and both of the dolls had disappeared - my parents knew nothing about it. I still have the pictures I took from when I found the 1st one and the 2nd time round...If you want to see the pictures just say and I'll post the pics in a reply - I would do it now, but if you don't really care then I don't see the point in getting them off my phone, not that it's a problem at all if you do.
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Posted 6/28/14

GayAsianBoy wrote:

I don't believe in magic.

Everything in this universe can be explained by science and mathematics. The universe has set laws that it must follow. Discovering those rules and laws are what constitute "science". Science isn't about guessing or making things up. It's about observing the universe.


I get what you are saying and I had a similar discussion further back along the post with another person. Just to put it out there though, if the laws of science were broken by someone/something would you claim that to be 'magic'. I'm asking this question from the perspective that everything we know about science is correct, but someone/something can still break that rule...is that 'magic' by your standards at that point?
Posted 6/28/14 , edited 6/28/14

AnimeIzPro wrote:

I get what you are saying and I had a similar discussion further back along the post with another person. Just to put it out there though, if the laws of science were broken by someone/something would you claim that to be 'magic'. I'm asking this question from the perspective that everything we know about science is correct, but someone/something can still break that rule...is that 'magic' by your standards at that point?


Yes, it would be "magic" at that point...
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Posted 6/28/14
Yes.
Every magic act is simply a trick that the audience doesn't understand well enough to replicate.
for example the opera hat vs the magic hat.
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Posted 6/28/14 , edited 6/28/14
We can't really determine if magic, magick, sorcery, or whatever you want to bloody call it is real, because we can't even settle on what it really is. Our beliefs of what magic can be is so vastly different that we don't even really know what we're looking for.
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Posted 6/28/14 , edited 6/28/14

Phersu wrote:

We can't really determine if magic, magick, sorcery, or whatever you want to bloody call it is real, because we can't even settle on what it really is. Our beliefs of what magic can be is so vastly different that we don't even really know what we're looking for.


I guess based on all the past discussions in this post, I'd say it's something that surpasses the laws of science (so not a trick of the mind or the senses) so not even science can explain it...
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Posted 6/28/14

AnimeIzPro wrote:


Phersu wrote:

We can't really determine if magic, magick, sorcery, or whatever you want to bloody call it is real, because we can't even settle on what it really is. Our beliefs of what magic can be is so vastly different that we don't even really know what we're looking for.


I guess based on all the past discussions in this post, I'd say it's something that surpasses the laws of science (so not a trick of the mind or the senses) so not even science can explain it...


NO!
If it happens, it can be explained.
There's no reason to believe magic happens in a way that can't be explained.
It must be done in a way that's simply not explained.
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Posted 6/28/14


NO!
If it happens, it can be explained.
There's no reason to believe magic happens in a way that can't be explained.
It must be done in a way that's simply not explained.


But if science says it's impossible and it happens, then how can science explain that...surely it becomes 'magic' at that point...?

Posted 6/28/14
wanna sell your soul? xD you can then ask someone who really wants you to find magic
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Posted 6/28/14

AnimeIzPro wrote:



NO!
If it happens, it can be explained.
There's no reason to believe magic happens in a way that can't be explained.
It must be done in a way that's simply not explained.


But if science says it's impossible and it happens, then how can science explain that...surely it becomes 'magic' at that point...?



Science doesn't work that way.
If it happens then it is possible.
BUMBLE BEES FLY!
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Posted 6/28/14 , edited 6/28/14

severticas wrote:

wanna sell your soul? xD you can then ask someone who really wants you to find magic


I'm not sure if you are being serious or not, but as I said I have no belief in the whole selling your soul or magic being purely demonic thing. My opinion of course, but I've never really seen how magic is demonic...I understand god did 'supernatural acts' and stuff, but people still say that is his godly power and nothing to do with magic, even though if you used it to help someone it's also not a bad thing...Anyway, just my opinion.
Posted 6/28/14

AnimeIzPro wrote:


severticas wrote:

wanna sell your soul? xD you can then ask someone who really wants you to find magic


I'm not sure if you are being serious or not, but as I said I have no belief in the whole selling your soul or magic being purely demonic thing. My opinion of course, but I've never really seen how magic is demonic...I understand god did 'supernatural acts' and stuff, but people still say that is his godly power and nothing to do with magic, even though if you used it to help someone it's also not a bad thing...Anyway, just my opinion.


magic is not direct, you have to have the ability to order some other entity
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Posted 6/28/14 , edited 6/28/14


magic is not direct, you have to have the ability to order some other entity


Based on this post, people are still deciding whether magic exists and what type of magic we are on about, let alone where the source of someone's magic power comes from. You message seems kind of declarative (though I apologise if I'm reading into it too much), is this simply your opinion? Do you evidence? (Not that any of us really do, just thought I'd ask.)
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