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Is an Order absolute!?
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69 / M / Limbo
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Posted 7/7/14 , edited 7/7/14
If the ends justify the means then I'll nuke the shit out of that city without any hesitation. IDGAF
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21 / M / The Heroes Associ...
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Posted 7/7/14
Personally, i would be one who would follow orders resolutely if i believed in the cause we were fighting for.

However, i am not one who would follow orders that would bring about chaos and destruction.

i Would sooner be executed as a traitor than to betray an entire country by following an order to nuke a country
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Posted 7/7/14 , edited 7/7/14
Because most humans in this scenario would act in their own self-interest (not in necessarily a bad way, e.g.: protecting your family) most orders would be carried out. Hell, there is an experiment on obedience! Participants were told to administer shocks to another person (actor) if they missed a question by the head scientist. Over 60% of the people administered extremely lethal shocks because someone told them to. AKA the Milgram Experiment!!! Here is the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOYLCy5PVgM
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21 / M / In my own lalaland
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Posted 7/11/14
Killing for the sake of humanity? No! Killing for personal reason? Maybe. As long as I can thing straight I will stick on my own moral.
Jonexe 
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Posted 7/11/14

BlueOni wrote:

I will obey any lawful order coming from the person placed in command of me. If I am issued a lawful order from any other superior which either conflicts with my standing orders or requires my commander's judgment prior to proceeding, I will check with said commander prior to obeying it. If I am given the go-ahead in that situation, I obey the order. If I am not, I don't.

The point is that orders aren't absolute, but lawful orders obtained from legitimate authorities must be obeyed.


Took the words right out of my mouth.
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28 / M
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Posted 7/11/14


Am I the only person who picked up on his choice of words? Not sure if it is intentional or not but he said "your being told its for the sake of humanity".

That made alarm bells ring in my head, someone can tell you anything, but that does not necessarily make it true. So naturally no, I would not do it. Not only that, but how do you live with the souls f over 10 million people hanging over your head? Think about all the things you feel guilty for now or ever have, a single action, and now multiply that by 10 million. Honestly, I'm not even sure that question is fair because it is so far beyond the scope of what any normal person could realistically envision.

Short answer, no. Killing is pretty much wrong, even IF you are killing for the right reasons, taking the wrong action for the right reason is almost always followed by a slight moral decline, whether in your eyes or the eyes of your peers. If you could justify killing 10 million people...women, children, men, fathers, daughters, sons, mothers, grandparents, and loved ones... What COULDN'T you justify?
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28 / M
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Posted 7/11/14

BlueOni wrote:

I will obey any lawful order coming from the person placed in command of me. If I am issued a lawful order from any other superior which either conflicts with my standing orders or requires my commander's judgment prior to proceeding, I will check with said commander prior to obeying it. If I am given the go-ahead in that situation, I obey the order. If I am not, I don't.

The point is that orders aren't absolute, but lawful orders obtained from legitimate authorities must be obeyed.


This train of thought is scary. Especially since Laws vary from place to place and just because something is LAWFUL, it does not make it right. Laws are, and always will be written by Man, your only rightful obligation, your duty should be to your conscience and doing the right thing.

Disclaimer, I am not saying it is easy or I always do the right thing.

Also, what you said sounds way too much like indoctrination. Are you in the military or law enforcement?
Lathos 
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Posted 7/11/14
-snip-


Am I the only person who picked up on his choice of words? Not sure if it is intentional or not but he said "your being told its for the sake of humanity".

That made alarm bells ring in my head, someone can tell you anything, but that does not necessarily make it true. So naturally no, I would not do it. Not only that, but how do you live with the souls f over 10 million people hanging over your head? Think about all the things you feel guilty for now or ever have, a single action, and now multiply that by 10 million. Honestly, I'm not even sure that question is fair because it is so far beyond the scope of what any normal person could realistically envision.

Short answer, no. Killing is pretty much wrong, even IF you are killing for the right reasons, taking the wrong action for the right reason is almost always followed by a slight moral decline, whether in your eyes or the eyes of your peers. If you could justify killing 10 million people...women, children, men, fathers, daughters, sons, mothers, grandparents, and loved ones... What COULDN'T you justify?


If it was 10 million people you were killing off, you would probably be pretty desensitized to those thoughts. Also, people die (and are born) literally every second, so the population really wouldn't be affected that much. Here's a little website i found. http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/ It's probably not entirely accurate, but it's a good example. I'm not saying i would kill 10 million people, I wouldn't, but really who knows if those ten million are still alive by the time the year ends.
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22 / M
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Posted 7/11/14
If you don't fallow you will be replaced with someone else willing to fallow orders.
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28 / M
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Posted 7/11/14

Lathos wrote:

-snip-


Am I the only person who picked up on his choice of words? Not sure if it is intentional or not but he said "your being told its for the sake of humanity".

That made alarm bells ring in my head, someone can tell you anything, but that does not necessarily make it true. So naturally no, I would not do it. Not only that, but how do you live with the souls f over 10 million people hanging over your head? Think about all the things you feel guilty for now or ever have, a single action, and now multiply that by 10 million. Honestly, I'm not even sure that question is fair because it is so far beyond the scope of what any normal person could realistically envision.

Short answer, no. Killing is pretty much wrong, even IF you are killing for the right reasons, taking the wrong action for the right reason is almost always followed by a slight moral decline, whether in your eyes or the eyes of your peers. If you could justify killing 10 million people...women, children, men, fathers, daughters, sons, mothers, grandparents, and loved ones... What COULDN'T you justify?


If it was 10 million people you were killing off, you would probably be pretty desensitized to those thoughts. Also, people die (and are born) literally every second, so the population really wouldn't be affected that much. Here's a little website i found. http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/ It's probably not entirely accurate, but it's a good example. I'm not saying i would kill 10 million people, I wouldn't, but really who knows if those ten million are still alive by the time the year ends.




Firstly, I wouldn't do it. Secondly, interesting site. Here's the thing though, that is a world counter correct? So 10 million people spread out over the world, not an isolated region, not to mention, natural causes or accidents and etc. You're talking about an act of violence. It's not like watching granny die as she drifts into sleep for the last time. You are violently taking the life of another human. Someone like yourself. Ten million times over. I think in large part that is how people desensitize. Focus on the numbers, the statistics if you will, because if you think of them as numbers, tallies on the chalkboard if you will, then they are not human, just a number on a clock, a mark on the wall.

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26 / M / Socal
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Posted 7/11/14
Well a computer and robot would, no problem.
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Posted 7/11/14
I serve on an Ohio class submarine, nicknamed Boomers. It is my job to safeguard and assist in the launching of Trident D-5 missiles that may or may not be loaded with nuclear warheads. So yes,, if the order came down to launch me and my brethren are beneath the waves ready to launch,
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Posted 7/11/14 , edited 7/11/14

AstralBlade88 wrote:

This train of thought is scary. Especially since Laws vary from place to place and just because something is LAWFUL, it does not make it right. Laws are, and always will be written by Man, your only rightful obligation, your duty should be to your conscience and doing the right thing.

Disclaimer, I am not saying it is easy or I always do the right thing.

Also, what you said sounds way too much like indoctrination. Are you in the military or law enforcement?


The sum of all possible responses I thought about issuing is as follows:

Obeying lawful orders without question is appreciably distinct from obeying them without thinking.

This is a philosophy you can carry with you in any profession. Insubordination tears apart the order and effectiveness of any and all workplaces, from aboard a naval destroyer to the stockroom of a grocery store. You must be ever mindful of all applicable laws as you consider whether or not to obey a superior's order, but if there is no conflict with either your presently standing orders, applicable laws, or company policy then you would be well-advised to either obey the order dutifully and faithfully or seek alternative employment.

Edit: To answer your question, I'm a civilian.
Posted 7/11/14
this is a conspiracy
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21 / SABER
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Posted 7/11/14 , edited 10/3/14

AstralBlade88 wrote:


BlueOni wrote:

I will obey any lawful order coming from the person placed in command of me. If I am issued a lawful order from any other superior which either conflicts with my standing orders or requires my commander's judgment prior to proceeding, I will check with said commander prior to obeying it. If I am given the go-ahead in that situation, I obey the order. If I am not, I don't.

The point is that orders aren't absolute, but lawful orders obtained from legitimate authorities must be obeyed.


This train of thought is scary. Especially since Laws vary from place to place and just because something is LAWFUL, it does not make it right. Laws are, and always will be written by Man, your only rightful obligation, your duty should be to your conscience and doing the right thing.

Disclaimer, I am not saying it is easy or I always do the right thing.

Also, what you said sounds way too much like indoctrination. Are you in the military or law enforcement?


OMG FINALLY SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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