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Is an Order absolute!?
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20 / M / Florida
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Posted 7/11/14 , edited 7/11/14
If you can't given me a legitimate reason why, then there is no way in hell I'm going to do something like that!
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Posted 7/11/14
Morality is like a language of logic. Simply because some people are incorrect in certain moral laws doesn't mean that it's completely subjective. That's like saying someone getting a math question wrong means that it has no correct answer. As such, I believe it would be incorrect to put the lives of those I know above the lives of a multitude of others, so, while I'd try to weasel my way out of the whole thing, I'd not kill them. Unless, of course, it was necessary to save even more, as in the case of saving humanity. Of course, I'd try to find a better way, though that could easily fail.
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58 / M / USA
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Posted 7/11/14
BlueOni has it right in terms of lawful orders. It is a requirement for the recipient of the order to insure it is indeed lawful - "I was just following orders" is not an acceptable defense. If you receive an order you believe to be unlawful or unclear, then you must seek clarification and explanation of the order. If the order is clarified and is lawful, then you must obey.

In the example provided, coercion/bribery are used as the means to secure obedience. This makes the order unlawful automatically. At that point it's not a matter of whether or not the order is absolute, but which evil will you choose?


Laws are, and always will be written by Man, your only rightful obligation, your duty should be to your conscience and doing the right thing.


And just who determines what is right? Laws are a social contract enacted so that we aren't just guided by 'conscience' but by a consensus of the common weal. The concept of what is 'right' evolves over time in both societies and individuals.
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27 / M / Europe
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Posted 7/11/14
Is the order a rabbit? no?!
...I REFUSE!
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Posted 7/11/14
If this hypothetical city were populated by the worlds politicians, pundits and talking heads then I think the act of public service would be enough reward and/or coercion to press the button.
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22 / M / NJ, USA
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Posted 7/11/14

BlueOni wrote:

I will obey any lawful order coming from the person placed in command of me. If I am issued a lawful order from any other superior which either conflicts with my standing orders or requires my commander's judgment prior to proceeding, I will check with said commander prior to obeying it. If I am given the go-ahead in that situation, I obey the order. If I am not, I don't.

The point is that orders aren't absolute, but lawful orders obtained from legitimate authorities must be obeyed.


Even if the order is unethical?
Posted 7/11/14

randommangaguy wrote:

Is the order a rabbit? no?!
...I REFUSE!


apes, rise of the apes
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Posted 7/11/14

BlueOni wrote:


AstralBlade88 wrote:

This train of thought is scary. Especially since Laws vary from place to place and just because something is LAWFUL, it does not make it right. Laws are, and always will be written by Man, your only rightful obligation, your duty should be to your conscience and doing the right thing.

Disclaimer, I am not saying it is easy or I always do the right thing.

Also, what you said sounds way too much like indoctrination. Are you in the military or law enforcement?


The sum of all possible responses I thought about issuing is as follows:

Obeying lawful orders without question is appreciably distinct from obeying them without thinking.

This is a philosophy you can carry with you in any profession. Insubordination tears apart the order and effectiveness of any and all workplaces, from aboard a naval destroyer to the stockroom of a grocery store. You must be ever mindful of all applicable laws as you consider whether or not to obey a superior's order, but if there is no conflict with either your presently standing orders, applicable laws, or company policy then you would be well-advised to either obey the order dutifully and faithfully or seek alternative employment.

Edit: To answer your question, I'm a civilian.


I'm glad you clarified a bit there, as your original post seemed...absolute. What you just said definitely makes sense and I understand what you are saying. I actually agree with you on some points, I however do not think Law is synonymous with Right. So even if it goes against the law, I will act in concert with what is Right, both when it is lawful and unlawful.

I enjoy a discussion with a discussion with someone who can present a viewpoint articulately, intelligently, and without bias. You have done all three.

*tips hat to you*

I don't completely agree with you, but I completely understand it.
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Posted 7/11/14
I think this thread could easily be answered with the Milgram experiment.
Read about it, lose more faith in humanity, and appreciate yourself in recognizing it and actually learning from it and doing something about it when a situation like that occurs.
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Posted 7/11/14

xPavilion wrote:

I think this thread could easily be answered with the Milgram experiment.
Read about it, lose more faith in humanity, and appreciate yourself in recognizing it and actually learning from it and doing something about it when a situation like that occurs.


i took a psych class i heard all about these "unethical" experiments
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Posted 7/11/14

AstralBlade88 wrote:

I'm glad you clarified a bit there, as your original post seemed...absolute. What you just said definitely makes sense and I understand what you are saying. I actually agree with you on some points, I however do not think Law is synonymous with Right. So even if it goes against the law, I will act in concert with what is Right, both when it is lawful and unlawful.


It may surprise you a bit, but I actually agree with the idea that the law is not inherently morally correct. I do not abide by the law because I feel doing so is a moral imperative, but because doing so contributes to the maintenance of social order. It is this devotion to the maintenance of social order which drives me to seek to reform whatever law I feel is not in alignment with the sort of social order I believe to be moral rather than to revolt against it and simply ignore the laws I object to. In other words, I'm driven by the idea that while the present social order is not ideal, it is superior to a total absence of any social order whatsoever.


I enjoy a discussion with a discussion with someone who can present a viewpoint articulately, intelligently, and without bias. You have done all three.

*tips hat to you*

I don't completely agree with you, but I completely understand it.


That is all I would ever ask of you.
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Posted 7/11/14 , edited 7/11/14

Chopsuey9444 wrote:

Even if the order is unethical?


Any answer I gave you would be pretty subjective. I might find some unethical orders to be relatively palatable while I might find others to be so distasteful that I am forced to resign my post. It would depend very much on the severity of the order's conflict with my moral standards.
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24 / M / United States of...
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Posted 7/11/14 , edited 7/11/14
Would you kindly...?

Kudos if you get the reference.
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Posted 7/12/14
I would have no problem making the decision.
My family and a few close friends are all that matter to me, screw the rest of you.
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19 / M / Baltimore, MD
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Posted 7/12/14

jazzy663 wrote:

Would you kindly...?

Kudos if you get the reference.


LOL Bioshock reference. I remember getting to that part and it was such a mindfuck. O.o
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