First  Prev  1  2  Next  Last
All the Shinjis and Kiritos of the Anime World
18136 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / F
Offline
Posted 7/8/14
I don't think I have a preference in terms of realistic versus idealized. It's more about if the character has something about them that I like, preferably something a little unique. The sweet spot can be anywhere on that scale if the character is done well enough.
50983 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
41 / M / Oakland, CA
Offline
Posted 7/8/14
First of all, not sure how idealized shinji is.

On the actual subject, for me it's a question of self-awareness, or at least perceived self-awareness.

Something like "Problem Children..." or "Aesthetica of a Rogue Hero" or "Irregular at Magic High School" work for me, because they're so aware of how silly-strong their characters are they seem to be almost making fun of the idea.

SAO and Bleach (two name two, there are probably hundreds) on the other hand have no idea, and that gives me heartburn
22463 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
22 / M / Houston, TX
Offline
Posted 7/8/14
Male characters I like (no homo):
Katsuragi Keima (The World God Only Knows)
Hikigaya Hachiman (My Teen Romantic Comedy SNAFU)

Male characters I hate:
Itou Makoto (School Days)
Kousaka Kyousuke (Ore no Imouto ga Konnani Kawaii Wake ga Nai)
because they are scumbags

Ayasaki Hayate (Hayate no Gotoku [aka Hayate the Combat Butler])
Orimura Ichika (Infinite Stratos)
Ichijo Raku (Nisekoi)
because they are completely clueless
22654 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
26 / M / CA
Offline
Posted 7/8/14
I tend to learn towards the realistic end of the spectrum, but I'm more concerned with how the character is presented than anything else.

For example, if there is a good reason why the character is idealized and the character is not just stupidly strong for the sake of being strong, that usually works for me. But if being stupidly strong for the sake of being stupidly strong is the point of the series, that's an exception.

The same goes for realistic. If I feel like there is a good reason for the character being all but powerless, that's usually okay with me. If I feel like the character is just weak for the sake of being weak, unless that's the point of the series, that's not usually okay with me.

In Kirito's case, I feel like he has a reason for being so strong. Certain things happened, and he became determined to work harder than anyone else to become the strongest he could be and prevent any other things like that from happening again. For the record, I wouldn't say I'm a big Kirito supporter or defender. I'm not in awe of him like some people are, but I don't mind him nearly as much as some other people do.

I still have yet to see any of the EVA incarnations (I'm waiting for the Rebuild movies to be finished to marathon them all), so I don't have an opinion on Shinji in particular. However, I have noticed that I seem to have a greater tolerance for "weak" characters than others. Either that, or I'm much stricter about what I consider "weak" than other people are. I can't think of any good examples right now, though.
2296 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
21 / M / Shiganshina District
Offline
Posted 7/9/14 , edited 7/9/14
Would anyone consider Mikasa Ackermann as a good idealized character?

They are a few faults about her but she cries and romanticizes just like any other human.

She also has an established past.

What I like about her character is that she at least acknowledges the fact that she is stronger than everyone else.
42339 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / F / New Jersey, USA
Offline
Posted 7/9/14

drakedogma wrote:

I would say that Shinji and Kirito are sort of a false equivalency. Realistic or not, I personally think the worth of a character is heavily based off how complex, original, and how much effort is put into him, and I think Shinji isn't too bad in terms of how he is written, all the stuff you hear about Shinji being a wimp started off as stereotypical jokes that escalated into his mainstream archetype, but I don't think there are people out there who think that despite being a wimp, Shinji is a horribly written character, the nature of a character and how much effort is put in writting that character are 2 separate entities.

When it comes to Kirito, there is a difference between idealization and just plain lazy writing, not having the effort to put any emotional depth or complexity to a character for the sake of laziness, and I think people mistake idealization for just sheer laziness while realistic characters tend to have more depth because there is more effort put into writing their characters so I wouldn't say those 2 are the symbols of the ends of the spectrum, I think that realistic characters have much more weight on them than idealized characters due to the fact that they just have more effort put into them, so I'd definitely lean towards realistic characters, because being realistic and being a wimp are not mutually exclusive, you can be realistic and still be an admirable character, where as idealized characters are usually one way streets of laziness and wish fulfillment. Its very rare to see ideal characters acknowledge their own perfection as a sort of emotional depth, usually its just done for the sake of not bothering to put effort in them.



I like this comment.
xxJing 
37179 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
30 / M / Duckburg
Online
Posted 7/9/14
People hate this guy to hell, but I love him. This is the complete idealization of an alpha male.

Why I love him? Because he has no shame, he is full of confidence, he is capable of being both a nice guy and an asshole, he acts like he treats almost nothing as serious business, and most importantly of all, he does not get flustered around women.

He is the anti-cliche anime male protagonist. He is everything your typical Japanese nerd is not, and I love it.

I don't necessarily know what realistic means in anime. Does it mean, weak with problems? Or does it mean sensible? Honestly there are billions of people in the world each with different personalities, it's difficult to say what is and isn't realistic. I don't know if this character fits in as realistic, but I think this is probably the most realistic character that I do like :



I can relate to him partially, as I am sure many people can. He is smart and clever, but lazy. Unlike Shikamaru in Naruto, his laziness actually has adverse effects on his performance. The part I can't relate to is that he has a girl who has been stalking him for the past 10 years, but he keeps pushing her away despite actually liking her.

I guess I can like both realistic and idealized characters.
85860 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 7/9/14


How the hell could you hate this guy?
Rohzek 
15004 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
26 / M
Online
Posted 7/9/14
I'm assuming that the OP is talking about the Shinji from the original NGE, because the Rebuild version is more of a bland action hero. I'm not sure what a sweet spot would be exactly. I would have to say anything 7 and below would be okay in my book. Anything above a 7 is probably going to lack character development and conflict.
31766 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
26 / The Raggedy Edge
Offline
Posted 7/9/14
I simply prefer well written characters, wherein their being idealistic or realistic can be qualified and identified with as a part of who they are; as opposed to basically being realistic or idealistic 'just because'.
Sogno- 
45654 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 7/9/14 , edited 7/9/14

TsunLemon wrote:

No idea.
If I like a character I like them.


yes, this is how i feel. I've liked gary stus & i've liked complete wusses . Just depends on the show, the genre, the character's personality, etc.
42339 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / F / New Jersey, USA
Offline
Posted 7/9/14
When I hear people mention how they want a realistic/easy to relate type character, I can't help to wonder if they want a character that comes off completely human. The people they meet every single day is place in that character. When they want a idealistic character, it because those people want to escape from reality and want a character that is barely human.

Can't help but wonder.
22406 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
24 / M / CR Forums
Online
Posted 7/9/14

drakedogma wrote:

I would say that Shinji and Kirito are sort of a false equivalency. Realistic or not, I personally think the worth of a character is heavily based off how complex, original, and how much effort is put into him, and I think Shinji isn't too bad in terms of how he is written, all the stuff you hear about Shinji being a wimp started off as stereotypical jokes that escalated into his mainstream archetype, but I don't think there are people out there who think that despite being a wimp, Shinji is a horribly written character, the nature of a character and how much effort is put in writting that character are 2 separate entities.

When it comes to Kirito, there is a difference between idealization and just plain lazy writing, not having the effort to put any emotional depth or complexity to a character for the sake of laziness, and I think people mistake idealization for just sheer laziness while realistic characters tend to have more depth because there is more effort put into writing their characters so I wouldn't say those 2 are the symbols of the ends of the spectrum, I think that realistic characters have much more weight on them than idealized characters due to the fact that they just have more effort put into them, so I'd definitely lean towards realistic characters, because being realistic and being a wimp are not mutually exclusive, you can be realistic and still be an admirable character, where as idealized characters are usually one way streets of laziness and wish fulfillment. Its very rare to see ideal characters acknowledge their own perfection as a sort of emotional depth, usually its just done for the sake of not bothering to put effort in them.


What he said!

To further provide examples of this, look no further than Yuki Tomino's work in Gundam. Specifically Zeta and Double Zeta

The two protagonists are the arrogant, whiny, problem child Kamille Bidan, and the orphaned oni-chan Judau Ashta.
Kimille sat in development for 4-5 years, Zeta Gundam was quite the amazing project. The characters of Char, Fa, Reccoa, Four, and Bright all had huge influences on him. Bright, the father figure of a previous generation, is unable to pock up the surrogate father role for Kamille. Kamille is older and far more emotional than Amuro, and he is at a loss. Its not until the love interest Four shows up that Kamille is even a remotely likable character.

Judau of Double Zeta had a problem. No development time, Zeta kills off its cast over 6 episodes only to have Bright replace it with homless children. Judah isn't inherently dislikeable. But his character starts and ends at Orphan oni-chan. No cruel parents, no harsh upbringing. He apparently goes to school, but skips school to work. His character never had depth because the writers didn't have time to make it. So they winged it.
Cue a show of Judah always winning, the amazing arch villainess Haman-sama reduced to a pedophile, and a Gundam that wins every fight with its cool yet cheap "Double barrel laser rifle" in one shot.

The characters should be built with care. Look at Kill la Kill. 2-3 years in development before we get these characters!
50983 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
41 / M / Oakland, CA
Offline
Posted 7/9/14 , edited 7/9/14

Felstalker wrote:

What he said!

To further provide examples of this, look no further than Yuki Tomino's work in Gundam. Specifically Zeta and Double Zeta

The two protagonists are the arrogant, whiny, problem child Kamille Bidan, and the orphaned oni-chan Judau Ashta.
Kimille sat in development for 4-5 years, Zeta Gundam was quite the amazing project. The characters of Char, Fa, Reccoa, Four, and Bright all had huge influences on him. Bright, the father figure of a previous generation, is unable to pock up the surrogate father role for Kamille. Kamille is older and far more emotional than Amuro, and he is at a loss. Its not until the love interest Four shows up that Kamille is even a remotely likable character.

Judau of Double Zeta had a problem. No development time, Zeta kills off its cast over 6 episodes only to have Bright replace it with homless children. Judah isn't inherently dislikeable. But his character starts and ends at Orphan oni-chan. No cruel parents, no harsh upbringing. He apparently goes to school, but skips school to work. His character never had depth because the writers didn't have time to make it. So they winged it.
Cue a show of Judah always winning, the amazing arch villainess Haman-sama reduced to a pedophile, and a Gundam that wins every fight with its cool yet cheap "Double barrel laser rifle" in one shot.

The characters should be built with care. Look at Kill la Kill. 2-3 years in development before we get these characters!


Excepting, the opposite of lazy writing isn't taking more time. Especially in a production cycle like Anime has, there's also the factor of these negative outside forces coming in and breaking up a character for various 'corporate' reasons.
Sailor Candy Moderator
200584 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
28
Offline
Posted 12/27/15
"Year-end cleanup. Closing threads with no activity since 2014."
First  Prev  1  2  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.