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Concern about Sexualization in Anime
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25 / M / 727 The Zoo
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Posted 7/15/14

bathroom64 wrote:


Captainkirko wrote:
Someone slap this kid

Which part and how hard?


His face, back of his head and probably slap his dick too because this kid doesn't use it even for recreational use

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Posted 7/15/14
Huh, guys its great to hear all your views on this. Thanks for commenting. I know that its up to the guy (or girl) if they happen to lust or objectify someone in a perverted way. Its just I've had a lot of personal experience with the temptation (and giving into it unfortunatily) and the amount of fan service really doesn't help, I can tell you.
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30 / Canada
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Posted 7/15/14 , edited 7/15/14
I agree with the sentiments of the OP.
As a lot of others have already pointed out, it's basically about 'sex selling' and people being lazy. It used to be that the level of fanservice we take for granted now was part of a niche genre of ecchi and borderline porn shows. It's always been known that T&A sells, and no matter what the artists actually making the show think of it, the guys in charge of the money are still going to want to force the inclusion of whatever sells.

I do find that there's a lot of objectification in most media in general, and it's a damaging trend. What that means isn't as black and white as 'seeing the sexual side of someone = objectification'. For instance, I really enjoy Monster Musume, because it's extremely honest with itself about how dirty it is. The characters, despite being extremely sexualized, are also treated as 'people', with personalities and feelings. (Which seems to also be an underlying part of the whole story.) They're being sexualized but are not necessarily being 'objectified'. On the other hand, there's Gargantia. The fanservice was really well integrated into the story, and yet at the same time I found it really jarring. Ledo slapping Amy's butt at the beginning worked fine and was surprising and funny, but a lot of the rest of it felt really forced to me and kept jarring me out of the story. I know the dancing sequence is supposed to imply that Ledo is becoming a human being (a 'real boy', lol...), but it really could've done with a slightly subtler touch. (Touch... urr... nothing intended there, really... )

I have mixed feelings about the oncoming tide of open 'manservice'. When I first saw the trailer for Free!, I felt that it was a 'hook', a marketing experiment, testing the waters (no pun intended?) to see if they could expand the market to females in the same way as is so deeply established now with males. Equality is good, but this is also going to go bad places at the same time, it's the nature of humanity. That aside, Free! is still a great show and has the potential remain that way as long as they think they can make money off of it in the form it currently has (that is, of it being a show with high production standards). The moment the perceived audience shifts, it'll probably collapse into being a relentless tsunami of hollow fanservice (which will eliminate a large portion of the audience, forcing them to try to make it even cheaper to compensate). Related, I think that a good part of its success has to do with still having a broad-gender appeal. There seem to be a lot of straight male swim fans honestly enjoying the show. The actual sport is portrayed really well for the most part, and they're not cheaping out on it. Swim matches can actually be pretty boring, but they manage to tie everything together to keep the actual sport component exciting. The attractiveness of the males being understandable and non-offensive to straight guys, they can laugh about it too, in effect along with the girls (and some guys) who are watching it for the 'manservice'. In a way, it includes '(straight)male fantasy', subtly, as well, pacifying some portion of the guys who would've been put off by it. (E.g. Gou (sorry, I mean Kou!), is always there to reassure everyone about how being a ripped dude makes girls swoon. Supposedly...) So as something that isn't dividing the genders so extremely, I think Free! is actually a pretty good influence in some ways. But really, all of these things are all still there to make money, first, and be entertainment and art second.

I have a friend who once described wine as "tasting good... after a while", and that kind of desensitization is the same thing going on here.
Hard as it is, I think it's really better to avoid the shows that disturb you that way, entirely, if you feel that deeply about it.

There are fewer and fewer shows now that aren't cheaping out and resorting to this extreme level of 'service', but if we don't 'speak with our wallets' (as someone else put it), or really, our actions, no one in the industry is going to get the message. As long as humans are sexual animals, this stuff will still be a cheap way to get stuff to sell. Even with a really interesting piece of art, if they think it's niche enough and not going to attract enough attention, they're just going to lace it with whatever type of 'service' they think will make it more popular. It isn't inherently bad, it's just that they're relying on it overmuch. I don't really want panty shots, camel toe, and excess zoomed-in jiggle in my philosophy(/art/mecha/whateverelse) shows, and the only way I can do anything about this is by adding my single drop of complaint to the ocean (i.e. not shutting up) and not supporting the practice by buying the merchandise.

As for NGNL, I really feel it fits more into the 'camp' category. Same goes for Samurai Jam - Bakumatsu Rock. Unmitigated insane camp. (Exploding shirts and 'samurai radar'...)

As for 'one vice per show', I think you're probably sort of on-target there. It starts to potentially lose audience if it's just a ridiculous insane onslaught of absolutely everything.

...and I really agree with the fact that killing and 'hyperviolence' aren't even really given a second thought, but the public gets disproportionately loud when sexuality or reproduction or nudity is even brought up at all. (It never fails to amaze me how in North America, breasts are inherently thought of as sexual... rather than 'what's being done with breasts'. How magazine covers of nursing women were pulled off the shelves while Cosmo and worse still sits at the grocery store checkout where little kids can read it? Long story short, we're all born naked and eroticism is more about context than nudity simply existing.) I remember one of George Carlin's routines had to do with replacing the instances of the word "kill" on tv with "F@#K" for a day and checking out the results. It's a really good piece. If you haven't watched it already, I'd recommend it.

So to wrap up what has become a wall of text, I'll conclude with an excerpt of a short speech from Sam the Eagle.
"Why, did you know that underneath their clothing, the entire population of the world is walking around completely naked? Hmm? Is[n't] that disgusting?"
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30 / Canada
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Posted 7/15/14
Uh, sorry for the double post, but adding a bit more, I think a better developed tag system might work better than a rating system. There are some really hard to classify shows out there. On the other hand if every show with any amount of fan service got some kind of warning sticker slapped on it, that would pretty much leave... almost nothing... and since sexiness, lewdness, and shock value is extremely subjective... Well...
On the other other hand, simple rating systems work pretty well to warn people away or draw them in. Crunchyroll really could do with some kind of at-a-glance warning.

There's a whole other can of worms, huh.

I think one other post here mentioned something about making one's own decisions in regards to this stuff, and I think that's something really, direly, sorely lacking now. People are now so pressed for time and also so unbelievably mentally lazy, almost no one wants to use their own judgement to pick movies for their kids or even for themselves. It's different from there just being data easily available to help make a judgement (like a rating), most people seem to really want someone else to do most (if not all) of the thinking for them.
Most people are much smarter than they give themselves credit for or even want to be. (Some people on the other hand...) I figure no rating system (or any kind of system) in the world can ever replace the core part of it, us all making our own decisions with our own judgement.
I think I'm straying too far into some kind of generalized monologue at this point...
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28 / M / USA! USA! USA!
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Posted 7/15/14
It's hardly ever good. That's what pisses me off about it.

There's either the "so terribad it's good" fanservice like the origami boobs shown in that .gif of that new show that is floating about, or it's just the same panty-shot without any thought put into it, etc.

It's just not sexy.


You can make some really hawt sexual tension without even needing to show the characters all nekkid (hello thar, Mahouka), but most sexual fanservice is just gratuitous and dull. 'Course a lot of it comes from the domestic anime audience being teen hikki-NEETs, so you'll get a lot of junior-high style awkwardness regarding sexuality and relationships to begin with, and this is just carried over into the fanservice, to make it something titillating and non-threatening to that domestic audience.





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30 / Canada
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Posted 7/15/14

maxgale wrote:

It's hardly ever good. That's what pisses me off about it.

There's either the "so terribad it's good" fanservice like the origami boobs shown in that .gif of that new show that is floating about, or it's just the same panty-shot without any thought put into it, etc.

It's just not sexy.


You can make some really hawt sexual tension without even needing to show the characters all nekkid (hello thar, Mahouka), but most sexual fanservice is just gratuitous and dull. 'Course a lot of it comes from the domestic anime audience being teen hikki-NEETs, so you'll get a lot of junior-high style awkwardness regarding sexuality and relationships to begin with, and this is just carried over into the fanservice, to make it something titillating and non-threatening to that domestic audience.







I totally, totally agree.
Ever heard that quote from the guy who designed the costumes in Star Trek? Something like the clothing's sexiness being proportionate not to how much skin is shown but to how likely it appears to fall off.

On that note, it's interesting to see the dynamic between the stuff aimed at girls versus at guys... Girls are usually more overt about wanting and needing and sometimes only responding to subtlety. So, before the whole 'manservice' thing came to the fore, and what they were looking at was still kind of a 'secret world' (ever seen a BL shop? They might as well have an armed guard outside for how they react to people), a lot of the (perceived) sexiness and fanservice was often not even superficially visible.
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27 / M / ATL - GA
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Posted 7/15/14 , edited 7/15/14
I can deal with it when it's funny and fits the mood of the series (as was the case with KLK), but most of the time fan service just insults my intelligence. I have literally no issue with nudity or sexual content in my anime, so long as it is relevant to the plot and/or the characters. People get naked and have sex in real life, after all. Pointless panty shots and the like are just gratuitous and makes me cringe more often than not.

I guess I just miss when anime used to have characters as opposed to caricatures. It seems to be getting worse and worse as time goes on. Miyazaki was right!
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27 / M / United States
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Posted 7/15/14
it is marketed to japan and they are more interested in 2d girls than real life relationships.
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Posted 7/15/14
Fan services feels okay for some shows depending on the show. In Kill La Kill, the show seems VERY fanservice-y until


In an instance like Free! the fanservice is blatant, but also silly enough for you to laugh at because of the context of the situation. Everytime Haru sees a pool he strips to go swim. EVERYTIME. But it makes sense because thats the kind of character that he is. The boys don't grab each others butts, or pull each others clothes off


Whenever I watch shows with blatant or out of place fanservice, It genuinely bothers me in the "You've got to be kidding me..." kind of way. I was watching something not too long ago, I can't remember. But all of the sudden, BOOBS in a swimsuit that was WAY too small. Me and my friend were watching this show, and when that happened we both groaned. It was a silly show I remember that, but it was so weird and out of place, it was stupid.

I understand WHY this happens, but thats doesnt mean it's always needed. Aldnoah.Zero is being good about that, Sports anime tend not to do fanservice in the show itself, with the exception of Free!, and so many really great shows tend to not use fanservice as often as others, like The Eccentric Family, Madoka Magica, Psycho-pass, Ping-Pong the Animation and I dont remember Attack on Titan having much fanservice either(in the show).

TLDR; Fanservice shouldn't be something to check off a list when making a show, It should make sense in the context of the show, like in comedies or camp. Last thing I need when watching a show is an up-skirt shot. But that may be too much to ask of people...
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32 / M
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Posted 7/15/14
It's a general culture thing in Japan. Anime has always been sexualized just like many other media. Many women who do all sorts of things wrestlers,sportswomen,TV stars,idols and even news presenters often appear in mens magazines wearing swimsuits and other sexy clothes. Anime has a particular audience in Japan and it's a very niche one that for the most part enjoys collecting figures of girls in skimpy outfits so the more of these characters they can create the more money they can make off goods.

It's not fair to inflict your own culture and values on another country because of what you think is right so it's best to either like it or if you don't just avoid things you don't want to see.

I don't think a rating system is really needed on CR most customers are adults anyway.
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25 / M
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Posted 7/15/14
I feel like for some anime, it's just there to pull you in at first, but you stick around for the great characters, story, etc. Sometimes the fanservice is simply part of the character/character development...and other times it's just thee for the sake of being there.

There is good fanservice and bad fanservice.

Erza Scarlet from Fairytail is sexy, has a serious bust, and has some pretty sexual/fanservice moments. However you remember her because she's powerful, has a great character and great story behind her (as well as the anime being good). Plus the sexiness is just part of her character, she actually likes dressing up.
I know she has a lot of fans but a bad version would be Lucy from the same show, just bewbs and ass crying out for Natsu. Just reminds me of Orihime from Bleach and Sakura from Naruto.

I have to agree with the SAO II part though. I forget her name but in the previous episode the sniper was laying down positioning for the perfect shot, but the camera spent a disturbing amount of time zoomed in on her crotch. No development of her, or her with other characters, just her alone and a zoom in that lasted too long.

Sometimes you need to look past the fanservice to see if there is actually a story there, and most of the time there is, and you'll hopefully get to a point where the so called fan service is simply part of the character, rather than something tacked on to put us all in heat.
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Posted 7/15/14
When I watch anime, I try my hardest to ignore the fan service they constantly throw in your face, and I usually end up liking the series' story and characters. I watched NGNL, SAO and Gurren Lagann while focusing on the plot line and thoroughly enjoyed them.


Plus, when does NGNL have SHOWER SCENES? .......oh wait......

And where are there BOOBIE SHOTS? ..............I srsly just typed that? ...........And I'm seriosly keeping it in this post? Really?

I'll just shut up now.
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40 / M
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Posted 7/15/14
Great thread UV.

I kinda agree with you, mostly fanservice do not make any kind of show better and I get most discomfort from shows with little girls showing of their panties and blushing, that´s just gross.
I can handle a little bit of clevage from time to time or the occational swimsuit if it don´t get to overbearing, For example I watch Fairy Tail and it´s some clevage now and then but the overall package is so good I kinda turn a blind eye to it or simply shrugs it off.
Luckily there is good shows out there with absolutely no fanservice like Hunter X Hunter (2011), Log Horizon or any Natsme show.
I would´nt recommend shows like Kill la Kill or the creeeeeepy Rail Wars though.

I think it´s a bit of a myth that only shows with alot od sexual content sells in Japan, Attack on Titan do not rely on any of that and are still a HUGE show.
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21 / M / USA
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Posted 7/15/14 , edited 7/15/14
Fanservice = I don't care I'll still watch the damn show.

I have shows where I like the fanservice - High School DxD

I have shows where I don't like the fanservice - The Pet Girl of Sakurasou

If you really want to be a hero and "respect" women, then don't watch anime, don't go on social media, don't watch TV, don't go out in public. Sexuality is everywhere. Get over it.
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Posted 7/15/14
I've never understood why this is seen as such a big problem, it almost never bothers me in the slightest.
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