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Post Reply Fate/Stay Night (Anime) Discussion
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Posted 11/18/14
Actually I prefer some thing in the 2006 anime.

1.the mystery about every character

Sakura is very suspect, my mother who watch the anilme with me say every time she see her "You're too kind, I don't believe you, you're a master and an antagonist", Rider show to Shirou some good sides. Archer is like in the new anime absolutely not faithful. Even Issei is suspect...

2.The fact secondary character like Sakura and Taiga are more present. Tiger is much more a mother to Shirou than into the new series

3.Rin is far less Tsundere and much much High class and competent girl

4.The Shirou vs Rin with comedy aspect

5.The music
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Posted 11/18/14 , edited 11/18/14

chevalierkraken wrote:


Wow I never even thought of number 1 until now but I can see that. I have to say that I like both forms of the speeches Archer gives to Shirou (cause the one in this anime is different than the one in the new series), which is where being a fan of the franchise instead of a single medium or story within comes in handy.

Taiga is definitely more older sister styled in 06 anime and has more funny moments.

Don't mention the bit about Rin elsewhere or you'll never hear the end of it =.= All I heard about when I mentioned something in this vein was how the current one is how the VN has her and that its how she should be portrayed I still think the one being shown in the current series comes across as too 'schoolgirl' and is trying to put her in the 'cuteness' spotlight.

I think people seem to think for the story to be good it has to have a constant seriousness to it. There's no way Rin was actually going to go through with a lethal attack on him so why not have some humorous moments. Not to mention some people mentioning that they liked Shirou still being on guard and ready if Rin wanted to go round 2 post-Rider leaving, same thing happened in the 06 anime.

Sound department divides into two parts for me, on the spell sound effects I love what is being done in the current series cause it give oomph to the spells and I do love 'Ideal White' opening; however in overall music I think 06 may have trumped it just because of the atmosphere it brought in.

I actually like the similarities between the series since for it cements the idea that 06 anime should be put alongside this current one and the future HF one as the FSN experience, instead of being pushed into the 'blacklist'.
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Posted 11/18/14

chevalierkraken wrote:


3.Rin is far less Tsundere and much much High class and competent girl



And if you had read the VN, Shirou calsl Rin a demon woman in all three routes because she puts on a mask that hides her real nature. Shirou being the only one that sees it.

And now the Unlimited Blade Works Anime has hit full swing into the many reasons it will outshine the 2006 series, starteing with the first GAR fight Archer has vs Caster.
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Posted 11/18/14 , edited 11/18/14

Loboeye wrote:



And they have a conversation to the same effect in 06 anime as well only Shirou is implying she's more crude and down to earth than the image she portrays. Not that she's a shy cute plushy (so to speak) underneath it all.

It'll have its time till the Heaven's Feel movie(s) come(s) out then that'll be huge, the main point is that there will be fans out there that won't let this series or even the current UBW series fade out. There's also fans like myself that will support all the versions out there, including this current one just not at the expense of the others.

You mean the Caster that so far instead of being composed and reserved with her emotions, instead has shown a) being visibly and verbally angry and b) petty in blaming Assassin for not doing his job basically? Yeah, I'll take the 06 calm, composed, and emotionally reserved Caster. ofc this is all based on the first impression and the next episode coming up will truly show how she'll be portrayed in this series but for now this is how I see it.
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Posted 11/18/14

Loboeye wrote:


chevalierkraken wrote:


3.Rin is far less Tsundere and much much High class and competent girl



And if you had read the VN, Shirou calsl Rin a demon woman in all three routes because she puts on a mask that hides her real nature. Shirou being the only one that sees it.

And now the Unlimited Blade Works Anime has hit full swing into the many reasons it will outshine the 2006 series, starteing with the first GAR fight Archer has vs Caster.


No need to read VN for that Shirou was calling Rin like that in 2006 anime (not in the new one however). But the 2006 rin don't lose her temper land look pathetic like how she act by losing a command spell for nothing or swinging her ass, complaining about Saber being Shirou's servant.

Rin is much mor calm in 2006.

And the 2006 have the GAR moment with episode 14. Don't forget Gar term came from that episode and not from VN. Archer vs Caster will never be more GAR than episode 14

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Posted 11/18/14

chevalierkraken wrote:


Loboeye wrote:


chevalierkraken wrote:


3.Rin is far less Tsundere and much much High class and competent girl



And if you had read the VN, Shirou calsl Rin a demon woman in all three routes because she puts on a mask that hides her real nature. Shirou being the only one that sees it.

And now the Unlimited Blade Works Anime has hit full swing into the many reasons it will outshine the 2006 series, starteing with the first GAR fight Archer has vs Caster.


No need to read VN for that Shirou was calling Rin like that in 2006 anime (not in the new one however). But the 2006 rin don't lose her temper land look pathetic like how she act by losing a command spell for nothing or swinging her ass, complaining about Saber being Shirou's servant.

Rin is much mor calm in 2006.

And the 2006 have the GAR moment with episode 14. Don't forget Gar term came from that episode and not from VN. Archer vs Caster will never be more GAR than episode 14



GAR is the meme I started, and nothing will be as GAR as Shrou vs Archer when it is animated correctly, or in another anime, Ceasr Zapelli vs Wammu.
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Posted 11/18/14 , edited 11/18/14
The Fate series by nature has a lot of exposition and that turns a lot of people off of it (for reasons I can't understand, but they are there). Because of that I think the DEEN adaptation did a decent job at keeping in the main points while not making it too long, but I have head people say they still found the exposition to be too long. I also find it forgivable that they didn't follow the VN because they couldn't even if they wanted to. In the Fate route of the VN Caster was all but irrelevant because there were 2 following routes to develop her. A lot of people need to remember that The VN is 3 routes and every character may or may not get attention in every route. So how would DEEN, that was not going to do every route, be able to give some characterization to every character in the series without deviating? Because of that I think it was a solid adaptation where if you have an issue with it, you probably have an issue with the Fate route of the VN instead of having an issue with DEEN's adaptation. When I first read the VN it was years after I first watched the anime and I was surprised at how close the two were considering how much hate it gets.

With that said I did have some issues in the specific things they deviated with, like the whole evil Sakura in lingerie. It looked like a tie in to Heaven's Feel, but to this day that scene seemed so random and out of place. It was also weird that they decided to give Caster the ability to create that huge temple area in her territory. I think they could have done that without messing with her abilities, but in the end it's not a huge deal.
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Posted 11/18/14

tadams9795 wrote:


I have a feeling the VN fanatics would be fine with the idea of having an anime for each route, regardless of how ridiculously expensive I imagine that being and how it makes more sense to try to come up with a fused route. My surprise came when everyone was saying how true to the source the new anime is, then I watched it and could point out several things that were also in this version thus showing that Deen wasn't as far off as the VN fanatics made it seem.

That last bit is the one thing to this day I honestly can't think of a reasoning to. I mean I kinda get the idea that maybe the 'lingerie'/bondage gear was supposed to be tie-in to HF but they just forgot to elaborate on and actually make a point around it (or who knows maybe it really was an attempt at fanservice cause it really did show off Sakura's ummm 'assets' more than her uniform xD). I know that in the current series its mentioned that Caster is a territory settling (or something to that effect) type so maybe that's where the idea of the temple came from or could just have been there all along and no one noticed (I'll have to finish re-watching the series to try to come up with anything other than this).
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Posted 11/19/14 , edited 11/19/14

xCrimsonEX wrote:


tadams9795 wrote:


I have a feeling the VN fanatics would be fine with the idea of having an anime for each route, regardless of how ridiculously expensive I imagine that being and how it makes more sense to try to come up with a fused route. My surprise came when everyone was saying how true to the source the new anime is, then I watched it and could point out several things that were also in this version thus showing that Deen wasn't as far off as the VN fanatics made it seem.

That last bit is the one thing to this day I honestly can't think of a reasoning to. I mean I kinda get the idea that maybe the 'lingerie'/bondage gear was supposed to be tie-in to HF but they just forgot to elaborate on and actually make a point around it (or who knows maybe it really was an attempt at fanservice cause it really did show off Sakura's ummm 'assets' more than her uniform xD). I know that in the current series its mentioned that Caster is a territory settling (or something to that effect) type so maybe that's where the idea of the temple came from or could just have been there all along and no one noticed (I'll have to finish re-watching the series to try to come up with anything other than this).



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All caster type servants, unless there are exceptions due to the heroic spirits legend, have the class skill "Territory Creation"- s the skill to build a special terrain that is advantageous to oneself as a magus or alter an area to make it advantageous to onself as a magus.

And as a VN reader, for me at least, the thing that I didn't like about the DEEN version was how they try to fuse all the routes together (to an extent), as well as how I simply didn't like DEEN shirou's characterization (and that's a personal preference. If you like Deen shirou, that's totally fine too!). Why does a more fused route make more sense? I mean, yes expenses are an issue, but if they aren't, why not go for an individual anime for each route? After all, when each route is focused on its own, it provides a good way to focus on the different facets of the world as well as the theme overall.

I am so far enjoying the 2014 version more, not necessarily because it feels closer to the "spirit" of the source material (though that is probably a plus), but because of all the extra little tidbits that they added. Like the Illya bath scene, the scene where Kiritisguru visits Shirou in the hospital, the physical body language that happened in the church scene, etc. I also am personally liking how they portray the characters in the new version a bit more and how they they have nice exposition scenes (like Mintsuzari talking to Shirou about his desires, etc).

So yes, maybe I am a bit biased because of the VN, but that doesn't seem there aren't things in the new version that non vn readers wouldn't enjoy more so than the Deen version.


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Posted 11/19/14 , edited 11/19/14

farispie wrote:


xCrimsonEX wrote:


tadams9795 wrote:


.


That is an accurate description of Caster's territory ability, but my minor issue is that Caster didn't use it in the way that is was shown in the DEEN adaptation. In the DEEN adaptation she created that reality marble like ancient city where in the VN she used it for certain spells (won't go into details since it's kinda spoiler-ish). When I think about it, it isn't necessarily something that she can't do, but at the same time it was never shown that she could do something like that.

I also think that an anime for each route would be better, but DEEN couldn't do that so they worked with what they had. Also just out of curiosity, what did you dislike about DEEN's Shirou vs. the Fate Shirou? I haven't read the VN in a little while, but from what I remember their characteristics were very similar in the ways they viewed the Holy Grail war, the way valued human life, the way they viewed and interacted with the other characters, etc. I found the DEEN Shirou to be annoying, but I also found the Fate Shirou to be equally annoying.
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Posted 11/19/14
This will always sum up the DEEN version.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MpKUhFRwEuw/maxresdefault.jpg
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Posted 11/19/14 , edited 11/19/14

farispie wrote:



That's basically what I figured so good to know I wasn't off the mark on that part, cause I thought it may have meant that the Servant just had some degree of control (like being able to put up anti-Servant barriers or mana decreasing fields) over the territory but not actually be able to warp/physically alter the area.

Again I don't see a huge difference between the current ufotable characterization of Shirou and how Deen did it, as they show practically the same actions and the same events. The main reason for it 'not making sense' is exactly for the fact that it isn't economically sound especially considering Deen was the first to actually try to test how well an anime based on this series would do, besides that merging routes allows you to bring in new and fresh things via mixing up what is to be expected (if you've read the VN). Not to mention I've seen plenty of people mention how the Fate route is pretty info dump-ish, by adding in elements from elsewhere you break that up. The way I see it is like having a 'Third person shooter that also has rpg elements', sure you could have gone with 3 different games instead but if you can merge them together and have them work it leads to a more encompassing experience (I brought this particular thing up because a game I play is setup in just this fashion.)

I'm enjoying the current version as well though I don't know if I'd say 'more'. I'd say to watch the Deen version alongside the current version and you'll see just like I have that trying to say one is really hugely better is hard to argue as they're too similar for that to work. I like the new scenes as well (especially the one showing Shirou's archery skills), though I don't know if I'd put this series above the others for them alone. I don't like certain aspects of the current anime's Rin portrayal as I prefer the Deen version's portrayal; I also kinda like the idea of Shirou's driving factor being essentially "survivor's guilt' (Deen) rather than trying to spark an inner numbness (VN).

Here's the thing, while people like me argue for all the series to be watched and enjoyed VN'ers typically only want x-thing and if it doesn't fit that then its unworthy and should be 'blacklisted'. A friend of mine is seemingly in the minority that has read the VN and can't watch the Deen anime with as much enjoyment, however doesn't try to make it vanish from existence and instead sees it as a good intro to the series. I actually wonder if ufotable isn't actually silently acknowledging the Deen version by not doing a Fate-based remake series, instead focusing on UBW (compressed movie really didn't do the story too much justice) and HF routes. I'll admit that there's alternate ways to view that decision but that is a potential reason from my perspective.

Just want to make sure that this doesn't come across as me trying to invalidate your view but just give an alternate view.


tadams9795 wrote:


I think from the sound of it this falls into the ability being altered to fit into the story, they wanted an ancient city thus used the thinking behind this ability to have it happen and ofc the temple being on a leyline would supply her with enough mana to keep it in place (at least that's my way of thinking on it.)


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Posted 11/19/14 , edited 11/20/14
Since I've moved further ahead in rewatching the series gotta point out:


Other than that I have to wonder how the h3ll Shirou and Shinji were ever friends, considering Shinji is a total and complete douche.
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Posted 11/19/14
The Divergence point in the change in Shirou is different in UBW and different in HF. UBW comes at the point in which
and in HF
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Posted 11/19/14 , edited 11/19/14

tadams9795 wrote:


farispie wrote:


xCrimsonEX wrote:


tadams9795 wrote:


.


That is an accurate description of Caster's territory ability, but my minor issue is that Caster didn't use it in the way that is was shown in the DEEN adaptation. In the DEEN adaptation she created that reality marble like ancient city where in the VN she used it for certain spells (won't go into details since it's kinda spoiler-ish). When I think about it, it isn't necessarily something that she can't do, but at the same time it was never shown that she could do something like that.

I also think that an anime for each route would be better, but DEEN couldn't do that so they worked with what they had. Also just out of curiosity, what did you dislike about DEEN's Shirou vs. the Fate Shirou? I haven't read the VN in a little while, but from what I remember their characteristics were very similar in the ways they viewed the Holy Grail war, the way valued human life, the way they viewed and interacted with the other characters, etc. I found the DEEN Shirou to be annoying, but I also found the Fate Shirou to be equally annoying.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now to be fair, I haven't seen the DEEN version in awhile myself, but from what I remember is that they never really showed what the ideal of a superhero meant to Shirou as much as they did in the Fate VN . At least in the DEEN version (from what I remember), he outwardly seemed to be reckless for no apparent reason, making him seem to be foolhardy and a bit idiotic. Whereas in the fate version, at least through dialogue and inward thinking, we come to know that Shirou's sense of self...is quite...lacking and that he clings to the ideal . I guess its just that outwardly, yes, the DEEN version and Fate version are pretty similar, but inwardly they aren't?

If I recall correctly, the DEEN version briefly touches on Shirou's survival guilt, but the fate version shows more aspects to Shirou's thought process and actions than just survivor's guilt.

So, I guess just found the Fate version to be more fascinating because of the inward differences in their potrayal.

Now, I don't think the DEEN version was terrible, but it wasn't amazing either. So I'd give it maybe a 6.5/10 ?
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