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Show thats proves Anime can be a higher form of art.
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Posted 7/23/14
I've also just realized that I haven't really given my best answer to the question. More than picking a show as evidence of anime as High Art, I'd say the evidence is in thinking about High Art itself. If we look at the few mediums that are considered the "highest" forms of art, we usually, by popular consensus, come up with -- Painting, Music, and Literature (I'd include Poetry with literature, although you could separate 'em). It's interesting to me that animation uniquely combines these forms. Animation (Anime, by extension) is essentially a moving painting with a soundtrack and a story. NOTHING else combines all three of the most highly regarded art forms into one medium, and I'd say that's the best argument I can come up with for anime as a higher art form. Unfortunately, few shows bring out the full potential of the medium, although there are a lot of examples of exceptions. Stuff by SHAFT is usually stronger in bringing out the abstraction in paintings to make a point, while studios like BONES or Madhouse are strong in the "literature" or story-aspects. As a side note, I've come to view a lot of Madhouse stuff as stronger in the "poetry" aspect, but things can get a little riddled when you start making distinctions like that. At any rate, just some more thoughts on the issue that came to mind.
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Posted 7/23/14
After reading some of the posts in this thread, namely the few last ones from theYchromosome, I've come to a conclusion. The question itself is flawed. Or rather it's not the question you should be asking. Let's try to look at it from a different point of view. Instead of asking for something that proves that Anime can be a higher form of art, we should look for a reason why the other art mediums(such as movies, plays etc.) are sometimes considered as higher art forms. I believe that the reason for this is simply the amount of people watching them and expressing their admiration for them. High Art is generally a highly renowned and admired piece of art. And with enough people, especially with enough renowned critics agreeing that this particular piece of art is amazing, it becomes High Art. Same theory applies into the line between an art form and a High art from. The more individual pieces that are considered as High Art, the more likely that form of art is to be considered as a form of High Art.

With that in mind we can start to understand why anime isn't really considered as High Art. So let me explain. I personally might not like a specific painting, but with enough renowned people praising it, the masses will follow. So if you feel like anime is a form of High Art, then it is, for you that is. But for anime to "officially" become a form of High Art, it needs more people to seriously like it.

So as for the sum up, whether or not something is High Art is based on the majority rule. I believe that given enough time, even animation like anime, will be considered at least as a serious form of art.
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Posted 7/23/14

asharka wrote:
Well, if I must...

What is the name of the ninja clan that Shredder employs to fight the turtles?


Don't know. Just tell me already
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Posted 7/23/14

Des85 wrote:


asharka wrote:
Well, if I must...

What is the name of the ninja clan that Shredder employs to fight the turtles?


Don't know. Just tell me already :P


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Posted 7/23/14


Oh hehe.

The movie I was talking about is the one where some guy meets an older woman in a park, it rains sometimes, the art is beautiful. Was released this year I think it was.
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Posted 7/23/14

Des85 wrote:The movie I was talking about is the one where some guy meets an older woman in a park, it rains sometimes, the art is beautiful. Was released this year I think it was.
Garden of words, Makoto Shinkai (and actually he's into shoe design, not specifically feet, but I can see how someone might get a different impression)... I knew that, but was just being funny. (and apparently failing, I guess)
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Posted 7/23/14

asharka wrote:
Garden of words, Makoto Shinkai (and actually he's into shoe design, not specifically feet, but I can see how someone might get a different impression)... I knew that, but was just being funny. (and apparently failing, I guess)


Hehe yeah.
I do like TMNT, but not that much.
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Posted 7/23/14

theYchromosome wrote:


pewternatural wrote:



Really like your explanations and pretty much agree with what you said about art. If you read any interview of an artist, whether it be painter, actor, writer, director, or animator, what they speak of is not the end result, but the process. Art is a process created to put forth a message and illicit a response from others. Whether that response is emotional, intellectual, philosophical, political, or even if the purpose is to illicit the response of no response ( I know sounds stupid), it is the process and response that is art and not the artifact created by this response. That is why I love your reasoning for what you believed as art and why.

Also on a side note, the term High Art, in my opinion, is mostly a bullshit word made up by art critics who either were never artist or were failed artist, because of the very fact that they did not understand art is not an artifact. High art is just some traditionalist assholes saying that this is art, because I can sell it for a million dollars, because really all high art is, is someone asking for lots of money at an auction house.

Has for my answer to what I would show someone to show them anime is art, I would say Monster. The philosophical questions it brings up about evil, about a persons responsibility for their actions both biological and non biological, the concept of family and the concept of non-existence as the perfect suicide, are all messages that the anime puts forward and makes us think about.



Although I was already sort of feeling this way before I read it, I have to admit that a lot of my current thoughts on the subject come from Dewey's Art As Experience, one of the best philosophic treatments of Aesthetics I've seen. Although this is an oversimplification, a big part of Dewey's ideas is a bit of contempt for the way society looks at stuff in museums and says "this is art," and things like graffiti are just kids playing around. All in all, what makes something art or artistic depends upon a mode of thought, and since thought varies with the subject, ultimately what art "is" depends upon how you think about it. Naturally then, it means that the real "artist" so to speak, is the audience, who is creatively putting together the "work." It follows from this that aesthetic value can be found in anything, provided the viewer is in the correct mindset. So, by only treating stuff in museums and art shows as "art," the "High Art" crowd is necessarily missing out on a valuable artistic experience -- namely, life itself.

I mention this, because it's ultimately how I interpret things when artists talk about "the process." Ultimately, the best pieces of art are the one's that give the audience a sense that they are creating the art as much as the artist is. "The Process," as you put it, is probably exactly that. Anyway, I mainly just wanted to use this chance to plug a book I quite like, and maybe get some others to consider an interesting viewpoint on art (I guess I flatter myself that I think my viewpoints are interesting, but that's a topic for another day).

At any rate, although I'd agree with you that "High Art" is a bullshit term, I sort of also disagree with the popular conception that those using this bullshit are only looking at expensive pieces as "art." While "High Art" is bullshit, the things described by "High Art" generally do deserve high praise. There's a reason the pieces are so expensive, and they rightfully ought (generally) to be revered. Doing so at the cost of seeing other works as less valuable is my main issue. Stuff in museums and art shows are usually there because they are valuable as art, but we shouldn't just see them as art, and we shouldn't value them less because some people have inserted some bullshit into the mix. "High Art" isn't bad, so to speak, but simply making the distinction of "High Art" is a problem -- if that makes sense. The term might be bullshit, but I don't think the stuff that the bullshit refers to is, of itself, bullshit. I'm not sure if there was any of that thought process in your reply, but I just wanted to sort of make sure we were on the same page (and, like a said, plug a book).



You're right about the label of high art, I was probably simplifying it too much. You said it correctly though, the label of high art, is bullshit, but the art itself isn't. Generally high art, is very technically sound. I brought up price, because I see a trend were people measure the quality and importance of art, with how much it can make at an auction, when in fact all this really means is what a rich person is willing to pay for a painting, usually based upon what they think they can sell it for in the future.

I don't mind your book plug. I actually read excerpts from Dewey's lectures in architectural theory class in college. His thoughts on art were very influential on Post-modernist architects and deconstructionist. Using the idea of art a process for allowing a viewer to construct the art himself, I think we can very much agree that anime can be considered art. The fact that the worlds that anime creates lead to so many fandoms being so immersed in them themselves, that they begin to want to explore the worlds through fanart and fanfic, thereby becoming creators themselves. This of course is somewhat of a double-edged sword as it leads to fans believing that they own a part of the art as much as the creator does and then you get your rabid fanbases. still art that inspires other art, has to be considered a High art.
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Posted 7/23/14

AnimeKami wrote:

what do you mean higher form of art?


I was going to ask that too...
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Posted 7/23/14

kitsuneshoujo wrote:


AnimeKami wrote:

what do you mean higher form of art?


I was going to ask that too...



EvaUnit24 wrote:


AnimeKami wrote:

what do you mean higher form of art?


Like how people consider live action movies and television shows as real art, and most common people see animation as just kinda mindless entertainment.


I dont think I have ever heard anyone one refer to movies and tv as higher forms of art. Thats usually reserved for classical paintings like van Gogh.. and used by pretentious art-snobs.

Almost all anime has more art in them than the majority of tv shows, movies with a lot of cgi would qualify.
Posted 7/23/14 , edited 7/23/14
Shin Sekai Yori,From the New World.
C Control ,The Money and Soul of Possibility.
Sankarea, Undying Love. Gankutsuou: The Count of Monte Cristo. Casshern Sins. Ergo Proxy. claymore. Maoyu. http://www.crunchyroll.com/maoyu http://www.hulu.com/claymore
http://www.hulu.com/ergo-proxy http://www.hulu.com/casshern-sins http://www.hulu.com/the-count-of-monte-cristo-gankutsuou http://www.hulu.com/sankarea
http://www.crunchyroll.com/shin-sekai-yori-from-the-new-world
http://www.hulu.com/c-control
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Posted 7/23/14 , edited 7/23/14
Art is in the eye of the beholder.Everything can be considered art.
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Posted 7/23/14
While the word "art" is a very subjective word to use to describe something, if your talking about anime that I would use as gateway series for non-anime fans I would pick:

Fullmetal Alchemist/ Fullmetal Alchemist:Brotherhood
Madoka Magica
Death Note
Fate/Zero
Attack on Titan
Cowboy Bebop
Trigun
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21 / M / My Couch
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Posted 7/23/14
Mushi-shi for sure
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24 / M / Las Vegas
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Posted 7/23/14
5 Centimeters Per Second

Mushi-shi

Garden Of Words

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