First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  Next  Last
Post Reply CNN depicts anime and manga as "Child Pornography"
23684 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M / Fort Bragg, NC
Offline
Posted 8/13/14

FrogzJumper wrote:

CNN is just jealous that people watch anime more than they watch the news these days. It's their fault they're so biased and misleading.


LMFAO WTF IS THIS EVEN SUPPOSED TO MEAN?
23583 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 8/13/14 , edited 8/14/14

SoldierSangria wrote:

Erotic/pornographic manga/anime is pretty much underage pornography, though in my first post I wasn't implying that - (I was rather implying that anime/manga many a time is NOT innocent and it does have explicit material many a time, even though it goes under the radar).

Anyway, even though they're not actual children and shouldn't be ever compared to real children, it is still strange and one has to wonder why on earth they're printed in the first place unless to satisfy certain...Desires. It is almost like the lesser of two evils.

I'd say that suppressing something because you're not sure about it is the greater evil. Maybe they do fulfil certain "desires" but if it's not hurting anyone then I don't see the problem. If I had to choose between someone reading erotic manga with underage characters or abusing actual children then I'd let them read the manga every time. I suppose the main point is that the two aren't connected, if someone is abusing children then that's a crime anyway so there's no need to criminalise something else just because you feel it might be related (even worse if there are no proven links).

Personally, I find anime characters can be attractive but I don't think of them as people (I have no illusions about being able to marry them or whatever). I don't think that enjoying erotic manga/anime with underage characters inherently means you have sexual desires towards children.

I suppose there's also the question if having sexual desires towards children is inherently wrong even if you don't act on them but that's a whole other can of worms.
Posted 8/13/14

Gyava wrote:


FrogzJumper wrote:

CNN is just jealous that people watch anime more than they watch the news these days. It's their fault they're so biased and misleading.


LMFAO WTF IS THIS EVEN SUPPOSED TO MEAN?


He's 14. Don't question the teenagers.
Posted 8/13/14

Smeelia wrote:

I'd say that suppressing something because you're not sure about it is the greater evil. Maybe they do fulfil certain "desires" but if it's not hurting anyone then I don't see the problem. If I had to choose between someone reading erotic manga with underage characters or abusing actual children then I'd let them read the manga every time. I suppose the main point is that the two aren't connected, if someone is abusing children then that's a crime anyway so there's no need to criminalise something else just because you feel it might be related (even worse if there are no proven links).

Personally, I find anime characters can be attractive but I don't think of them as people (I have no illusions about being able to marry them or whatever). I don't think that enjoying erotic manga/anime with underage characters inherently means you have sexual desires towards children.

I suppose there's also the question if having sexual desires towards children is inherently wrong even if you don't act on them but that's a whole other can of worms.


No, it is not hurting anyone - that is true, and I liking a explicit series with underage characters doesn't mean you're attracted to real children at all. Majority of the time anyway.

I just think it is odd how much more "conditioned" people are to seeing loli's for instance, in anime. And how popular they are among people. When you think about it, it is strange that characters that look like prepubescent, sexualized children could be so popular after all. How did this become...Oh, I don't know - more "normalized"? I mean, in a load of modern animes, you're seeing more and more loli's - I think again that is why it has become something so debated. It wouldn't be debated in the first place if it wasn't so...Odd.

After all, the term "lolicon" stems from the classic literary masterpiece "Lolita" - a satirical story about a man who "loves" a 12 year old girl named Lolita, and sexually abuses her. He marries her mother to get Lolita, and later on plans on impregnating Lolita so he can have "more Lolitas" once Lolita is all grown up. Oddly enough, this book is a comedy/parody/etc (as it is told from the point of view of the man...)

Why borrow a name to classify a certain genre of entertainment from a book about that subject material? And then claim it is totally innocent, without any implications?
23583 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 8/13/14 , edited 8/13/14

SoldierSangria wrote:

No, it is not hurting anyone - that is true, and I liking a explicit series with underage characters doesn't mean you're attracted to real children at all. Majority of the time anyway.

I just think it is odd how much more "conditioned" people are to seeing loli's for instance, in anime. And how popular they are among people. When you think about it, it is strange that characters that look like prepubescent, sexualized children could be so popular after all. How did this become...Oh, I don't know - more "normalized"? I mean, in a load of modern animes, you're seeing more and more loli's - I think again that is why it has become something so debated. It wouldn't be debated in the first place if it wasn't so...Odd.

After all, the term "lolicon" stems from the classic literary masterpiece "Lolita" - a satirical story about a man who "loves" a 12 year old girl named Lolita, and sexually abuses her. He marries her mother to get Lolita, and later on plans on impregnating Lolita so he can have "more Lolitas" once Lolita is all grown up. Oddly enough, this book is a comedy/parody/etc (as it is told from the point of view of the man...)

Why borrow a name to classify a certain genre of entertainment from a book about that subject material? And then claim it is totally innocent, without any implications?

The origins of a term don't really mean much for the most part, I doubt many people who use the term "lolicon" or "loli" have read Lolita (and even if they're aware of it, it likely wouldn't be in detail). Basically it's just the underage part that applies for most usage (and in some cases they may not even be underage). Plenty of words have odd histories, we don't always have the time to consider every possible interpretation of every word we use (nor should we always try to read more into something than the person intends). I'm sure there are people who use "muggle" because they heard it used but don't know it's origins (well, maybe not many but there may be more in the future if it was to stay around).

As an alternative interpretation, if someone finds "petit" women more attractive then they may also like "loli" characters because they tend to share similar characteristics. Children might also share similar characteristics but they also happen to be children and that will factor into attractiveness (most people wouldn't even think twice about it). A "loli" anime character isn't actually a child so it's easy to think of them differently. Being able to differentiate between real children and anime children is a good thing.

Let's face it, we humans have plenty of things to figure out and we have plenty of prejudice built up from history that is no longer relevant today. Just because something seems "odd" doesn't mean it's wrong.

I think that seeing more "lolis" in anime does make sense, it's something that can appear harmlessly in anime but there's no real world equivalent. Animation from other countries could also include it but they may be wary of being compared to child pornography so they don't want to take the risk. It's also worth noting that a lot of anime characters are naturally underage because most tend to be in a similar age range (usually school ages).

That said, if it's something that really is becoming more common then that would imply that there's growing interest in it. If that's the case, then I don't think it's fair to say that the people interested in it are wrong without at least coming up with good reasons.
42443 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / F / New Jersey, USA
Offline
Posted 8/13/14
I can't help but to find this thread controversial.
2700 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / M / Texas
Offline
Posted 8/13/14
I guess CNN is trying to bring in a new demographic.
23583 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 8/13/14 , edited 8/14/14

qualeshia3 wrote:

I can't help but to find this thread controversial.

I suppose that's true but it does seem that most people feel that it is wrong for supposed "news" organisations to spread misinformation.

I'm not good enough at playing Devil's Advocate to come up with a legitimate argument in favour. "It's all in the name of entertainment" maybe (although that would mean it's not news anymore). How about "it encourages people to find out the truth themselves" (that might work but then they'd be just as well doing the research and telling the whole truth, or simply pointing people towards references they could look at rather than making inaccurate statements). Hmm.
Posted 8/13/14 , edited 8/13/14
CNN is 1/4 right. Some really graphic manga/anime are rated under the correct ratings (18+). But there are a few general anime/manga that contain heavy sexual themes that should be 18+ but somehow are not rated that way... a prime example I can think of is No Game No Life... omg that anime is anime porn, imho.

(Disclaimer: I'm not against the sexual themes used in NGNL, I'm open when it comes to the depiction of sexual themes). But I can see where people are coming from.


I also still don't believe that watching sexual animations could lead to criminal acts. But people like to link them together for some reason. Just because a criminal has a collection of manga/anime doesn't mean it was the cause of the criminal act. It's like saying a serial killer likes to play tennis... therefore tennis must have lead to his serial killing tendencies. It's just illogical.

And people don't actually have any proper scientific research to back them up; it's all just made up in their head because they think "sex" is so bad when it's a process that created them and sustained this entire human population for thousands of years -_-.
42443 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / F / New Jersey, USA
Offline
Posted 8/13/14


Ah, I see.
23583 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 8/13/14

GayAsianBoy wrote:

And people don't actually have any proper scientific research to back them up; it's all just made up in their head because they think "sex" is so bad when it's a process that created them and sustained this entire human population for thousands of years -_-.

Arguably, that's a good reason to dislike sex.

I kid (but couldn't resist).
Posted 8/13/14 , edited 8/13/14

Smeelia wrote:

The origins of a term don't really mean much for the most part, I doubt many people who use the term "lolicon" or "loli" have read Lolita (and even if they're aware of it, it likely wouldn't be in detail). Basically it's just the underage part that applies for most usage (and in some cases they may not even be underage). Plenty of words have odd histories, we don't always have the time to consider every possible interpretation of every word we use (nor should we always try to read more into something than the person intends). I'm sure there are people who use "muggle" because they heard it used but don't know it's origins (well, maybe not many but there may be more in the future if it was to stay around).

As an alternative interpretation, if someone finds "petit" women more attractive then they may also like "loli" characters because they tend to share similar characteristics. Children might also share similar characteristics but they also happen to be children and that will factor into attractiveness (most people wouldn't even think twice about it). A "loli" anime character isn't actually a child so it's easy to think of them differently. Being able to differentiate between real children and anime children is a good thing.

Let's face it, we humans have plenty of things to figure out and we have plenty of prejudice built up from history that is no longer relevant today. Just because something seems "odd" doesn't mean it's wrong.

I think that seeing more "lolis" in anime does make sense, it's something that can appear harmlessly in anime but there's no real world equivalent. Animation from other countries could also include it but they may be wary of being compared to child pornography so they don't want to take the risk. It's also worth noting that a lot of anime characters are naturally underage because most tend to be in a similar age range (usually school ages).

That said, if it's something that really is becoming more common then that would imply that there's growing interest in it. If that's the case, then I don't think it's fair to say that the people interested in it are wrong without at least coming up with good reasons.


Lolicon is a term in reference to "Lolita-complex" which again is stemmed from the classic book, Lolita. Even if general people don't know that, it doesn't change the fact that the name, term and genre "Lolicon" comes from these things - that is, having an attraction to underage girls. Sure, lolicon doesn't mean that you're attracted to real girls - but it still remains that there is a liking towards little animated girls, or adults that look like little animated girls.

Loli's can be children, or they can be adults. It goes both ways. "Loli-adults" are different from other anime-adults. "Loli-children" are different from other anime-children. There is a sexualization, a certain prepubescent-sexualization and way of acting that goes along with this for the most part that makes Lolicon different from (for example) anime women who are small-made/etc.

Lolicon's are (or at least, majority of the time) are subtely garnered towards this "underage theme/ this subtle eroticness" whether you want to acknowledge it or not. It is there, the theme is there, the word itself is born of this definition.

If Lolicons were entirely innocent, they wouldn't be named in the first place from a book about an adult man lusting after a child, nor would there be any difference between "loli's" and regular anime kids. The difference is there, and it is there for a reason.

Lolicon's are completely different from a regular cute little anime kid. They're entirely different actually.

Depending on where you live, underage means different things. For instance, the legal age in Japan is either 13 or 14.

All I'm saying is that Loli-lovers should understand there is a reason loli's are different from regular anime kids/small made anime women, and they know where the term comes from. It isn't hurting anyone, but at the same time - the implications are not innocent almost always.

To be honest, I've had this discussion from all these angles on the official "Lolicon" thread - yes, that thread. There are so many sides to this matter, and I think at the end of the day it all comes down to personal opinion.

Me personally, I hate lolicon/shotacon even the non-explicit ones. Same with Moe (and Moe crossed with loli). But that's all personal opinion. Thanks for the discussion though.
23583 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
Offline
Posted 8/13/14 , edited 8/14/14

SoldierSangria wrote:

To be honest, I've had this discussion from all these angles on the official "Lolicon" thread - yes, that thread. There are so many sides to this matter, and I think at the end of the day it all comes down to personal opinion.

Me personally, I hate lolicon/shotacon even the non-explicit ones. Same with Moe (and Moe crossed with loli). But that's all personal opinion. Thanks for the discussion though.

Well, indeed.

I do question your suggestion that someone who likes "lolicon" targeted material isn't "innocent" since that would suggest they're "guilty". As you say, since it's a matter of opinion it doesn't seem appropriate to use words with such strong meanings. I think that's a common problem when people see something they don't like and are concerned about and it's something that people need to be careful of since it can quickly turn into a "moral crusade" rather than a genuine discussion.

I think that's probably just a case of using the wrong word though, rather than something you intended.
Posted 8/13/14 , edited 8/13/14
I honestly can't tell if anime sexualizes (<----is this a word?) kids, or if it is just me that's being a pervert and I'm the one that sexualizes 14 year olds. Some times I get really confused, "wait, is this show for kids or weirdo adults...........?" I've been watching Oreimo and the whole time I'm thinking, "WTF is the demographic for this show?"


Also, my personal opinion, I don't see how you can ever say loli shit is okay. I don't see how a guy coveting a 12 year old girl IRL is different from him getting off to a drawing of a 12 year old. The lust/idea is the exact same thing. I understand how legally loli-anime stuff is okay, but my own subjective opinion:


So in conclusion (sorry I got off topic), I don't think the perception of anime being perverted is completely unfounded.
12532 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / M / UK
Offline
Posted 8/13/14 , edited 8/14/14

ayesharocks wrote:

I wouldn't take anything they say seriously, heck, who watches the news anymore, anyways?


I do but it's the BBC I watch or Sky so it's less of the "We are going to yell about guns being awesome and how Christianity is the only way and basically the Bible is part of the Constitution" bullshit that you get on major American networks. It seems American news is either a rant at something by a 'Republican' or stuff about how some celebrity is having a baby or who is sleeping with who etc.
First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.