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Why I think Argevollen is better than Aldnoah Zero
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Posted 8/25/14

Rippedyanu1 wrote:

Oh lordy to I feel a wall of text starting to pour out of my fingers tonight!

Aldnoah.Zero is also handled fairly realistically


The characters in Aldnoah.Zero have been given a background story for the most part with more to be shown later on

If you want to know why Inaho feels so "distant" or emotionless t
hen click this link for an understanding of what "Let Justice be done, though the Heaven's Fall" is the slogan for the series. That phrase is actually the entire concept and starting point of this series given its interpretations and many meanings:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_justitia_ruat_caelum

A.Z is telling a story

You're entitled to your opinion, provided you can back it up and explain your reasoning with a well thought out argument as to why your argument makes sense


My this is going to take a while. I've summarised your post into the key moments I wish to argue.

I've not seen the second show here, so I'm currently unable to compare the two. From the Preview...its the same shit. Anybody who likes either of these shows needs to go watch the original Mobile Suit Gundam anime/anime's. Those just blow it away AND are the originators of all these character archtypes you see in both Aldnoah and Argevollen.

To start, "realistically" is unimportant. We do not harp on the unrealistic powers of Hunter X Hunter or Akame ga Kill. Nor are we complaining about the Aldnoah Drives or super mechas we see. Realistically isnt an argument on what makes a show better. You can like how Aldnoah explains its fights, but you can also like how another show simply shows you haphazard action like Blue Gender does. Its like how Big Bang theory brags about how all the science and math they do on show is legit science and math, despite being a comedy and nobody fucking cares. Compared to Dr. who's time travel explanation of "shit works" in its actual SciFi setting.
As long as the show doesn't break immersion by altering its own rules and logic(like Valvrave does), people don't care.


All Animes (should) be telling a story. That's all I actually want in my show. Is Argevollen not telling a story? did you mean to say its telling a good story? Because its not. Its retelling Gundam.... Again... And Sunrise has already done that a hundred times!

The characters are the worst part of Aldnoah! You have the actual emotionless robot Inaho and a group of cliches! Slaine is the only character with any personality, and that was stolen from Char to begin with!
Think about it, what makes a character? Its their motivation! Why they do what they do.
By caring about the characters, we care about the show. They our the gateways into things. inaho has no character, making only the most logical of decisions.

This is how a robot acts, not a human being. He never makes a mistake, never acts on his interests, and lacks inteesrs to begin with. The latest episode has a scene in which he contradicts his own character! He tells someone that he was forced into the military, and didn't actually want to fight. Not only does he lack emotion of conviction in his statement, ITS NOT HIW HE ACTED IN EPISODE 3! He himself decided to attack and provoke a "superior mecha" to battle.
The kid has no problem with military life!

He has such a lack of character, I don't care. The Terrans are useless sheep lacking characters. His older sister and Lt. Marimo are Misato and Kaiji clones, the princess is copying the girl from Unicorn Gundam, and Slaine is Char.

Even the villains! The commander is a huge racist against Terrans, practically drooling over killing them, and he has a heel face turn? Slaine thinks "they must not know the princess lives" only to give it away with a snicker? The latest episode was absurdly bad! No action to distract us from the bad writing.

Nothing happening in Aldnoah is according to the characters or story. Its just bullshit contrived nonsense after another.

I actually have doubts Argevollen is worse, for all they need to of is be average and just copy Gundam as close as they can to beat out Aldnoah Zero.

The music of Aldnoah is good, but I doubt A-1 can keep up its Animation quality for the entire show. They're notorious for dropping off.
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Posted 8/25/14 , edited 8/25/14

Rippedyanu1 wrote:

I meant my gripes as to why he acts so stoically. "On the other hand, Horace opens one of his odes with a depiction of a Stoic hero who will submit to the ruin of the universe around him: "Si fractus illabatur orbis, / impavidum ferient ruinae" — "Should the whole frame of Nature round him break, / In ruin and confusion hurled, / He, unconcerned, would hear the mighty crack, / And stand secure amidst a falling world."

^When I said that earlier, I meant why he was a.) made to act that way and b.) why he shows barely any emotion. Hopefully this passage from the page gives an indication that Inaho doesn't really care about the world ending and he possibly may even crack under the fact that his life is basically over. This may happen after the death of his friends and his last surviving family member (his sister) but if it does happen you can bet I'm looking forward to it.

I will admit he is a little boring to watch but at the same time he's pretty interesting to watch as well. When things stop going his way I'm sure a lot of people will be happier with the show. Until then, I'm gonna keep waiting, watching and enjoying the show :P

There's definitely a heroicism about staring down a falling sky, metaphorically or otherwise. But on the other hand you have Inaho, who's making omelets during an alien invasion because he's just not all there in the head sometimes...

I'd just be more impressed by him if he was more human and less computer processor.

I think what they were mostly going for with him was the absentminded-to-the-point-of-indifference genius. Almost like he's some kind of tactical savant but on the flipside the innards of the outward emotional bit of his brain barely function.

I also find him interesting, but more because I'm always curious to see just how far outside the pale writers are willing to go to snag a protagonist for their mecha just so they can stand out a little against the hundreds that already exist.

I respect your opinion though, it's definitely a lens that'd make Inaho a bit more interesting to watch.

Edit: Just to state this clearly: I don't have a problem with Inaho's character. My problem is that he isn't being presented in a more interesting way. The concept is interesting but the execution just seems dull and needlessly abstruse.
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Posted 8/25/14
making a point.

to the twat of sao ii thread.

THIS is a discussion.
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Posted 8/25/14

Insomnist wrote:


Rippedyanu1 wrote:

I meant my gripes as to why he acts so stoically. "On the other hand, Horace opens one of his odes with a depiction of a Stoic hero who will submit to the ruin of the universe around him: "Si fractus illabatur orbis, / impavidum ferient ruinae" — "Should the whole frame of Nature round him break, / In ruin and confusion hurled, / He, unconcerned, would hear the mighty crack, / And stand secure amidst a falling world."

^When I said that earlier, I meant why he was a.) made to act that way and b.) why he shows barely any emotion. Hopefully this passage from the page gives an indication that Inaho doesn't really care about the world ending and he possibly may even crack under the fact that his life is basically over. This may happen after the death of his friends and his last surviving family member (his sister) but if it does happen you can bet I'm looking forward to it.

I will admit he is a little boring to watch but at the same time he's pretty interesting to watch as well. When things stop going his way I'm sure a lot of people will be happier with the show. Until then, I'm gonna keep waiting, watching and enjoying the show :P

There's definitely a heroicism about staring down a falling sky, metaphorically or otherwise. But on the other hand you have Inaho, who's making omelets during an alien invasion because he's just not all there in the head sometimes...

I'd just be more impressed by him if he was more human and less computer processor.

I think what they were mostly going for with him was the absentminded-to-the-point-of-indifference genius. Almost like he's some kind of tactical savant but on the flipside the innards of the outward emotional bit of his brain barely function.

I also find him interesting, but more because I'm always curious to see just how far outside the pale writers are willing to go to snag a protagonist for their mecha just so they can stand out a little against the hundreds that already exist.

I respect your opinion though, it's definitely a lens that'd make Inaho a bit more interesting to watch.


I can definitely agree with your point of view. He's TOO stoic, or like you said "absentminded-to-the-point-of-indifference genius" and that does bother me. Still an enjoyable show to watch though.
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Posted 8/25/14

Felstalker wrote:

Wall of text


I can't really disagree too strongly about any of your points, but that doesn't mean I dislike the show. It manages to keep me interested at least, and as I've said before I really don't like mecha anime very much. What am I getting out of it personally? I guess I like the tension they're managing to build, and since I really have no expectations for this show at all, I really want to see what comes next.


SirWilburn wrote:

I think Argevollen is better than Aldnoah Zero

I guess you're entitled to your opinion, but...
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Posted 8/25/14

Rippedyanu1 wrote:

I can definitely agree with your point of view. He's TOO stoic, or like you said "absentminded-to-the-point-of-indifference genius" and that does bother me. Still an enjoyable show to watch though.
Agreed, it is proving fun to watch.
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Posted 8/25/14 , edited 8/25/14

Rippedyanu1 wrote:

Gr8 b8 m8. I r8 8/8.

Oh lordy to I feel a wall of text starting to pour out of my fingers tonight!

But seriously, Argevollen has already had quite a large amount of asspulls that they don't try to explain while if Aldnoah.Zero seems to do an asspull moment, it goes back and explains it the next episode (for example Slaine showing up and taking out the rocket arm during the Tanegashima fight).

Aldnoah.Zero is also handled fairly realistically (excluding some of the trainer mech moments but even then, just by applying common sense and basic physics then outcomes do make sense, plus I am willing to bet half the reason Inaho hasn't gotten royally crushed yet is because many of the Vers Knights haven't been taking the Terrans seriously in terms of combat, which is understandable given that many of the soldiers haven't seen actual combat in 15 years and the Vers mechs are much more powerful). Argevollen on the other hand hasn't done much in terms of being accurate other than the programming of the mech and even then the show is delving more into the super robot genre (with it's neural evolution system that JUST got talked about last episode when that should have been shown much earlier). Aldnoah.Zero takes itself seriously and tries to break away from the norm as a mech series, Argevollen is sticking to the same old rhetoric. Both are a little generic at this point but the way Aldnoah.Zero is handling itself is a hell of a lot better than what I have seen from Argevollen so far.

The characters in Aldnoah.Zero (at least the major ones) have been given a background story for the most part with more to be shown later on, with it being somewhat easy to see where the mindset and actions of the characters come from. For example, the captain of the naval carrier, she joined the military as a tribute to her brother who died in combat during the Tanegashima Incident and has been itching for revenge since then. Whereas for Argevollen we know practically nothing of the characters in Argevollen save for the main character's sister dying somehow, hints at the commanders' past and the fact that Jamie works for a super secret company. If you want to know why Inaho feels so "distant" or emotionless then click this link for an understanding of what "Let Justice be done, though the Heaven's Fall" is the slogan for the series. That phrase is actually the entire concept and starting point of this series given its interpretations and many meanings:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_justitia_ruat_caelum
Argevollen's characters as a whole are really, really bland and/or cut and paste characters who have no purpose other than to be there, and that just blows seeing since they initially seem like they should have been much more important and interesting than they actually are.

As you stated in your post, the music, animation, voice acting/sound and overall quality are much higher in Aldnoah.Zero and is helping make for a better series. Argevollen feels recycled while Aldnoah.Zero actually feels like it's trying to break the norm.

A.Z is telling a story, Argevollen is showing pretty pictures moving with unnecessary fanservice (that hotel call was more than unnecessary) and tries to hide its failings in telling a story with a very weak plot. We don't know why the nations are at war with each other other than one empire is evil and wants to take over the world. We don't know for what purpose the Argevollen was made. We don't know why Jamie, a clearly unqualified "engineer" was tasked with handling a prototype super weapon that was transported through a freaking WARZONE during live combat. We don't know anything about the company that made the weapon or for what purpose. We don't know much about what started the war to begin with, we are just through haphazardly into it.

A.Z does have it's issues, I won't deny that. But it easily one of the top 5 shows this summer and could very well be the anime of the year depending on how everything plays out (hoping AgK takes that title but we'll see how they do adapting it). At the very least it would definitely be the best original anime of the year (aka shows that aren't adaptations). Argevollen hasn't done anything remotely praiseworthy and the characters are even more unlikable than A.Z's (which I do care about, at least many of them. Inaho's friends so far haven't done much for me but the other major/minor characters (from Earth) have been pretty enjoyable thus far).

I still watch Argevollen because I love mech shows, especially of the real robot flavor. But trying to say it is better than Aldnoah.Zero at this point is a farce and at the moment, a lie. You're entitled to your opinion, provided you can back it up and explain your reasoning with a well thought out argument as to why your argument makes sense. (That's from an article I read awhile back debunking the whole "everyone is entitled to their opinion" schpeele. It is in no way meant to upset you or anyone reading this post).

Phew, I think that's everything I had to say. I apologize for anyone attempting to read this entire post. I like both series so far, but Aldnoah.Zero is currently leaps and bounds ahead of Argevollen. Who knows, that could change later down the road as both have 24 episodes.


I feel like I'm obligated to give this post a well worded response.

Firstly, my post is not b8 m8 I simply wanted to raise a discussion. Despite your reasoning for your preference of Aldnoah Zero and how great you think it is that has no bearing on my experience with the show, while what the show tries to convey may be meaningful it holds no value if it does not hold the interest of the watcher in this case being me.

You can tell me Aldnoah is handled realistically all you want ain't nothing realistic about some kid with no battle experience somehow surviving encounters with all these highly advanced mechs and making it look easy. Just no. What you see as a flaw in Argevollen I see simply as a difference in pacing. There is not much back story on characters besides Tokimune and while things like the war have yet to be explained there is plenty of room for this to be delved into in future episodes, yet being presented is not a flaw in and of itself. We can at least get a good understanding of the characters and their personalities as well as their roles in war/story. In Aldnoah everyone besides the main characters such as Slaine, Inaho, the Princess feels like nothing more than background character who serve no purpose other than to give Inaho something to protect while giving the occasionally forgettable generic line. Nothing wrong with Aldnoah Zero taking itself seriously, but there is something wrong with not having a good supporting cast and so far the supporting cast has seemed unsupportive. While Tokimune may not be as skilled or as intelligent as Inaho he is supported by many characters who all work well together in order to achieve their missions. Nothing is wrong with a good bit of humor, hell even Aldnoah has its small chuckle moments. While some characters in Aldnoah may have a well laid back story I feel that we have yet to see these characters ever fully explored. As I'm watching it feels like everyone besides Inaho and a few others are basically just there and don't contribute much to the main plot, it may develop, but as of right now they haven't.

Personally I don't see very much that distinguishes Aldnoah from other mech series beside the high quality production value. Except for an OP mech we get a teen with a super brain which he apparently sold his emotions for. While I thought it started off well enough the story sort of never really moved for a few episodes or at least moved very slowly, like I said I'll keep watching, but so far it has failed to keep me actively engaged.
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Posted 8/25/14

Rippedyanu1 wrote:

Gr8 b8 m8. I r8 8/8.

Oh lordy to I feel a wall of text starting to pour out of my fingers tonight!


Thank you sir, thank you! I would give a more proper response, but I'm kind of tired and lazy right now lol. But, you nailed it.
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Posted 8/25/14 , edited 8/25/14
Really trying to read the walls....

Really trying. Decent points so far.

LOL twat of Sao II
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Posted 8/25/14


Everything generating discussion by putting two shows of the same genre against each other is baiting...apparently.

But like you and Fel said, the show is not realistic and the characters are very bad. The only character i can really cope with and try to understand is Slaine whereas the others i can't for the life of me. Inaho is just an emotionless drone, but i think that should apparent to everyone. One of my personal frustrations dealing with the characters is more so Inko because i can't take anything that come out of her mouth seriously and she seems so lax about everything.
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Posted 8/25/14
This thread makes me feel bad since I am watching aldnoah for the ntr.

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Posted 8/25/14
Haven't seen Argevollen, but god damn is Aldnoah a dissapointment. (Except for the music. Especially the opening, Kalafina FTW.)
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Posted 8/25/14

GoldTStar wrote:
Everything generating discussion by putting two shows of the same genre against each other is baiting...apparently.

But like you and Fel said, the show is not realistic and the characters are very bad. The only character i can really cope with and try to understand is Slaine whereas the others i can't for the life of me. Inaho is just an emotionless drone, but i think that should apparent to everyone. One of my personal frustrations dealing with the characters is more so Inko because i can't take anything that come out of her mouth seriously and she seems so lax about everything.


I always felt Inko was high on life. You know.....world could be ending...I bet she would be up for a Beer or two.
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I don't know, I find Inaho's honeybadgering kind of a refreshing change form the usual sort of insufferable teenage boy that pilots a mech character we typically get. -.-

I dropped Arghvallen after one episode to be honest. Its production values are laughable and its cast was painfully generic with the only exception being the woman that punched the MC in face as I had been wanting to do for the last 10 minutes. Aldnoah's cast may not be spectacular either, but at least they seem grounded and there's a larger overall plot going on.

Its also worth noting that Aldnoah is not a mech anime thats relying on the trope of having a super uber magic mech that only the MC can pilot. The Terrans have shit and all at their disposal. Inaho's only technological advantage is orange paint. Even if you don't buy Inaho's tactical prowess, at least show HAS tactical prowess and is displaying strategy in its combat scenes.

Thats a lot more interesting than watching Arghvallen's ridiculous looking Gundam Wing bastard child mech flail wildly around at the hands of someone that based on the first episode its a miracle he even qualified as a pilot. >.>
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Posted 8/25/14

cay032692 wrote:


GoldTStar wrote:
Everything generating discussion by putting two shows of the same genre against each other is baiting...apparently.

But like you and Fel said, the show is not realistic and the characters are very bad. The only character i can really cope with and try to understand is Slaine whereas the others i can't for the life of me. Inaho is just an emotionless drone, but i think that should apparent to everyone. One of my personal frustrations dealing with the characters is more so Inko because i can't take anything that come out of her mouth seriously and she seems so lax about everything.


I always felt Inko was high on life. You know.....world could be ending...I bet she would be up for a Beer or two.


Yup, that or just plain dumb. World is ending, she'd be the type to say her favorite show is on and she can't pilot a mech at the moment.
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