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Why I think Argevollen is better than Aldnoah Zero
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Posted 8/25/14

GoldTStar wrote:


cay032692 wrote:


GoldTStar wrote:
Everything generating discussion by putting two shows of the same genre against each other is baiting...apparently.

But like you and Fel said, the show is not realistic and the characters are very bad. The only character i can really cope with and try to understand is Slaine whereas the others i can't for the life of me. Inaho is just an emotionless drone, but i think that should apparent to everyone. One of my personal frustrations dealing with the characters is more so Inko because i can't take anything that come out of her mouth seriously and she seems so lax about everything.


I always felt Inko was high on life. You know.....world could be ending...I bet she would be up for a Beer or two.


Yup, that or just plain dumb. World is ending, she'd be the type to say her favorite show is on and she can't pilot a mech at the moment.


At least she isn't checking for eggs on sale

A lot more could use the Cane Treatment... A LOT MORE.
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Posted 8/25/14
This is all a matter of opinion.
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Posted 8/25/14

cay032692 wrote:

At least she isn't checking for eggs on sale

A lot more could use the Cane Treatment... A LOT MORE.


Yeah, tsk tsk Inaho.

I don't know what the hell are on these characters minds. I'd be that dude in the corner like, "These Martian *** are attacking us! This isn't the time to go grocery shopping! Get in the mechs and beat their asses pls!"
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Posted 8/25/14 , edited 8/25/14
Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, so I can't speak for anybody but myself on this. Anyway, as for my opinion, Aldnoah Zero has been a great show to watch, while Argevollen has been so slow and generic, so in my view AZ is better. I probably would have watched Argevollen if this season were not so loaded, but in a season like this there was just no room for it. With AZ, a very interesting story is developing that has been well-constructed to this point, something I haven't seen in mecha anime shows as of late. And then there is Gen Urobuchi there creating this show, although his involvement isn't as big as it is in his other shows. That makes for such high production values.

Argevollen, on the other hand, just feels generic and bland. It's got mecha battles, a reckless MC who has an act first mentality, and a linear story from what I saw up to this point. However, I like the characters in this show and the action scenes are pretty nice, while the theme songs by KOTOKO and Sachika Misawa give me a reason to watch this show. At the very least, I like this show better than all of those dud mecha shows from the spring season in Daimidaler, Dai Shogun, Captain Earth, and M3, but that's not saying much. That said, it goes to show just how much of a slump mecha shows have been in.
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Posted 8/25/14 , edited 8/25/14

SirWilburn wrote:

.





GoldTStar wrote:



The bait joke was just that. A joke. There's a reason I put "But Seriously" and then proceeded to write said wall of text. I like to crack a joke once and awhile. There wasn't meant to be any harm by it and I could tell from the OP's post that you very much meant for this to be a serious discussion. I just like to joke around sometimes I feel like you might have gotten a completely different vibe from what I wrote and that's okay. If you see one of my posts in the future and it starts off with something stupid or silly like that bait comment, know that it is a joke and is in no way meant to be serious.

Onto the topic at hand however:

Argevollen has no likeable characters. None. Tokimune is a dumbass no matter how you slice it and isn't a pilot other than "to find out who killed my sister", then why the hell didn't he have a different god damn job, like a mechanic? Sure piloting ranks faster but that's because you are a hell of a lot more likely to die. Jamie is a ditz who should have already died by now, especially during her running through a goddamn war zone, as should at least half the characters but then it wouldn't be a show now would it?

Inaho has trained for combat since he was a child as Heaven's Fall occurred either right before or right after his birth. He's only known a world on the brink of war and has trained for it his entire life practically. Hence the training school, trainer mechs and a cache of training ammo to prep them for a war if it ever did happen, which it did. More than likely the children were more capable soldiers because they hadn't yet been lulled into a false sense of safety. Sure the military was seemingly on edge, but over time that panic dulls. For a child being trained since birth, it's practically all they no. Also, it seems you glanced over this little tidbit but I'll make sure it seems more important than you might have read it as: The Versian Knights are NOT taking the Terrans seriously. At all. They look at them as ants while they themselves practically as gods and as such they get cocky and don't think like an actual soldier would, they think more like a bloodthirsty animal, and it's pretty damn easy to take out an animal when it's not thinking properly.

As for being realistic, and I'm gonna address this to Fel as well, realism matters in a real robot mech series. A lot. You want "science that never could happen" sci-fi? Go watch a super robot series like TTGL which, while fun, didn't try to be serious as if it did, it would have sucked. I'll suspend my disbelief for the Aldnoah Drives and the Vers tech because it was said to be ancient tech from a super advanced civilization with abilities that many couldn't dream up, however the only ones that completely break and sense of belief would be the matter obliterating mech. The energy output on the plasma sword output would have to be ridiculous but isn't impossible if you used room temperature superconductors, carbon nanotubes for the inside of the hilt as well as a high density plasma flame (talking something on the lines of literal liquid lightning or a miniature solar flare here). We've already got rail guns, smart missiles and high-energy output weaponry so the rocket arms and high energy blast that we've seen so far aren't that unbelievable. Even when the show is sci-fi, it takes note that stuff still has it's downsides.
In Argevollen we get a "yeah we made a machine that can self-improve itself by literally merging with the pilot's mind" <---- WHAT?! A company with no records, no financial backing, no weapons-development credibility or even a slight mention of being able to build literal next next next gen human-computer interfaces that evolve with the user, not to mention have such a user-friendly interface that a frankly unqualified "engineer" who took a job for the pay and isn't shown to have any prior study in the field, can not only understand it but can update the interface in hours. HOURS. An update for anything along those lines would take days or even weeks even for the most skilled of computer programmers/software engineers. As someone in the engineering field I can't help but call bullshit on that one.

I wouldn't say Inaho has a super brain either, if anything he seems really introverted and soft-spoken it's possible that to prep himself for a war he trained and studied things that could be useful later on or just interested him at the time, like updating the software for his mech, he learned how to do that probably over a few years so that he might have an edge in the future and as such stay alive.
Likewise, Inaho is just observant, not smart. he can spit out and memorize facts that he read about. Anyone can do that if they are interested in something enough. He can program, big whoop. You grow up learning this stuff for nearly all your life and it'll be like breathing to you. Hell, I read advanced theoretical models for science and mathematics because to me, it's fun and helps me envision a highly advanced future that maybe one day will fixed the problems of the present. I've built engines in my spare time because I was bored and wanted to understand how they tick. I'm smart but I'm not a super genius like what some people call Inaho.
His lack of visible emotions is annoying but as I said earlier that cleared up once I read the meaning behind the slogan as it basically said why Inaho was made like that, to see what happens to him as a character. What will be his breaking point? How will he break? When will he break? Eventually they will probably answer the question of why he acts the way he does (my bet is he witnessed his parents get killed in a training accident or something so now he makes sure to never mess up).

Some of the characters on the Terran side are boring, not gonna lie for that one. However like you said for Argevollen, we could get more backstory on them as well. We don't know at this point in time but hopefully we do later on. Same could be said for Argevollen as you pointed out, but that might be the only saving grace of the series as the big draw to a mech show (mech fights) have been severely lacking for Argevollen.

As I said in my post, right now A.Z is better (to me at least) than Argevollen. That could very well change like I said. We are only at episode 8 in both of the series so it's anyone's guess at this point. However, A.Z has a lot more going for it, especially if compared to what has currently happened in Argevollen, but it's still anyone's ballgame this early in.
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Posted 8/25/14

qualeshia3 wrote:

This is all a matter of opinion.


Everything everybody is saying, that is not stated as fact, is a matter of opinion.

Stop stating that your opinions are opinions, it is redundant, and that is a fact.

Or so goes my opinions on statingn something is and opinion.
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Posted 8/25/14

Felstalker wrote:


qualeshia3 wrote:

This is all a matter of opinion.


Everything everybody is saying, that is not stated as fact, is a matter of opinion.

Stop stating that your opinions are opinions, it is redundant, and that is a fact.

Or so goes my opinions on statingn something is and opinion.



You angry?
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Posted 8/25/14 , edited 8/25/14

Rippedyanu1 wrote:


SirWilburn wrote:

.





GoldTStar wrote:





I was afraid of getting slapped with another wall of text. Thanks for clarifying the joke was just a joke I really couldn't tell if you were serious or not I'll remember that in the future.

I don't really care so much about Tokimune being a "dumbass," he seems like a good kid and I can see him growing as the series goes on. I'm not claiming the supporting cast has a lot of depth, but they have good distinct personalities and play a good support role, I wish I could say the same for Aldnoah's support cast. I'm not a tech expert and don't feel it necessary getting into the technical aspects.

On the subject of Inaho I call the the ability to memorize facts and practically use it in combat pretty smart and something no one who doesn't have years experience in the subject would be capable of. Also he trained using training mechs nothing like Versian Knights, even if the Versian Knights had not been taking him seriously they easily wiped out adult trained soldiers, I find it hard to suspend my disbelief that he's capable of pulling off the stunts he has without active battle experience without being some form of genius. I don't know the Terrans High School curriculum, but it's far from anything I've learned in high school and if that's the case why aren't all these other students able to apply this common knowledge? Sorry I can't believe that Inaho is just another normal well prepared Terran, but I'm sure there will be more on that in future episodes. I can see why a lot of people may like it, I just feel it falls flat in some areas.
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Posted 8/25/14

qualeshia3 wrote:


Felstalker wrote:


qualeshia3 wrote:

This is all a matter of opinion.


Everything everybody is saying, that is not stated as fact, is a matter of opinion.

Stop stating that your opinions are opinions, it is redundant, and that is a fact.

Or so goes my opinions on statingn something is and opinion.



umadbro


ftfy
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Posted 8/25/14

AnimeKami wrote:


qualeshia3 wrote:


Felstalker wrote:


qualeshia3 wrote:

This is all a matter of opinion.


Everything everybody is saying, that is not stated as fact, is a matter of opinion.

Stop stating that your opinions are opinions, it is redundant, and that is a fact.

Or so goes my opinions on statingn something is and opinion.



umadbro


ftfy



What does that even mean?
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Posted 8/25/14 , edited 8/25/14

SirWilburn wrote:
I was afraid of getting slapped with another wall of text. Thanks for clarifying the joke was just a joke I really couldn't tell if you were serious or not I'll remember that in the future.

I call the the ability to memorize facts and practically use it in combat pretty smart and something no one who doesn't have years experience in the subject would be capable of. Also he trained using training mechs nothing like Versian Knights, even if the Versian Knights had not been taking him seriously they easily wiped out adult trained soldiers, I find it hard to suspend my disbelief that he's capable of pulling off the stunts he has without active battle experience without being some form of super genius. I don't know the Terrans High School curriculum, but it's far from anything I've learned in high school and if that's the case why aren't all these other students able to apply this common knowledge.


The thing the anime hasn't pointed out which I only found out about a few days ago is that the military version (the mark 7) is heavily armored and is actually a lot slower than the trainer mech (mark 6). With the weapons that the Vers Knights have, being a Terran glass cannon in this series is basically the only way to NOT die.

Now, many of the other kids also have years of experience in these subjects, they probably either suck at piloting for one reason or another or never took the schooling and prepping for war seriously. Something must have happened to Inaho as a child to have the no-BS mentality he has going on.

Sparring matches in school with the mechs was fairly likely and Inaho has been piloting this specific type of mech for years already whereas the adults probably got switched over to the mark 7 during the armistice. They probably trained with it before but like I said, the mark 7 is slower.
Did you notice how in episode 3 that the teamwork of the three mark 6 mechs were able to take out the obliteration armor mech yet now the other kids suck with the mark 7 while Inaho is basically taking names with the mark 6? In real life for pilots, swapping from one plane to another is REALLY hard as they all handle differently and it takes a lot of time and practice to get used to them. The students were basically thrown into the mark 7's with no prior training to them so it's likely they need to adjust as well.

As for what the kids learned in high school during what was basically a 15 year long Cold War against super-mechs, having them trained in the art of warfare since they were very young makes sense and can turn them into skilled fighters depending on a.) how well they paid attention in class and b.) how well they could apply what they learned. Inaho, for reasons not yet disclosed decided on absorbing all of what he learned and pushed himself to apply what he learned to the best of his abilities. He still makes mistakes, like not being able to take out the last rocket arm which would have destroyed the ship and killed everyone on board.
It's entirely possible that since his sister was an instructor at the school, he could have asked her for more practice with a mech than other kids could because she more than likely could have a.) sparred with him after school at the training grounds and b.) taught him abilities that are learnt later on in the actual military. It helps that the mark 7 is seemingly more agile than the mark 6 as well.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Anime/AldnoahZero <-- for the info on the mark 6 being more manuverable than the mark 7
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Posted 8/25/14
I edited my response
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Posted 8/25/14 , edited 8/25/14

SirWilburn wrote:

I edited my response


Great now I gotta write another wall of text

I wouldn't say Inaho is average, as the fact he can absorb and apply prior knowledge in a situation is a sign of someone who is fairly intelligent. I wouldn't call him a genius as that would be calling literally every person at my engineering college a genius and some of them are fairly... lacking intelligence for a lack of a better phrase. I go into the mech piloting similar to how I would with military piloting. You have to think on your feet, apply what you know when you need to and above all not make rash decisions because that will get someone killed.

Ah well, I actually really enjoy the technical points of the series. It knows it's a semi-realistic sci-fi series and likes to show us just that. For me it's one of the bigger pro's to the series. The thing that I have noticed with the Vers Knights being wiped out is that so far, ALL of them have fallen pray to getting blindsided with an attack from the side or from behind when they least expected it. The plasma sword guy learned the second time around and was only taken out by a literal suicide grab. Inaho got lucky with that one despite him knowing that the plasma would cause a huge underwater explosion, getting to that part was ballsy and fairly reckless.
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Posted 8/25/14

qualeshia3 wrote:


AnimeKami wrote:


qualeshia3 wrote:


Felstalker wrote:


qualeshia3 wrote:

This is all a matter of opinion.


Everything everybody is saying, that is not stated as fact, is a matter of opinion.

Stop stating that your opinions are opinions, it is redundant, and that is a fact.

Or so goes my opinions on statingn something is and opinion.



umadbro


ftfy



What does that even mean?


short for, fix that for you.
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Posted 8/25/14 , edited 8/26/14

SirWilburn wrote:

I edited my response


I edited mine as well so it should be more explanatory on some of your questions, like how Inaho is seemingly better (the sister could have helped him in school and given him extra training since she's an instructor) or why the kids suck at piloting the mark 7's (compare to real life military piloting since they are used to the mark 6's and actually did better with those) and why the mark 7's are getting butchered (they are slower than the mark 6 in a series where basically every Vers weapon is a one hit kill).

Edit: I just realized it was a shit-ton easier to just refer you to the TVtropes page for A.Z since it says just about what I've said minus some guessing on my part. But typing essays for this show was something I had been meaning to do for awhile. Gonna have to bookmark this page for when I finally go and review A.Z
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