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Why I think Argevollen is better than Aldnoah Zero
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Posted 8/26/14

AnimeKami wrote:


qualeshia3 wrote:


AnimeKami wrote:


qualeshia3 wrote:


Felstalker wrote:


qualeshia3 wrote:

This is all a matter of opinion.


Everything everybody is saying, that is not stated as fact, is a matter of opinion.

Stop stating that your opinions are opinions, it is redundant, and that is a fact.

Or so goes my opinions on statingn something is and opinion.



umadbro


ftfy



What does that even mean?


short for, fix that for you.


Oh wow.

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Posted 8/26/14

Rippedyanu1 wrote:



The bait joke was just that. A joke. There's a reason I put "But Seriously" and then proceeded to write said wall of text. I like to crack a joke once and awhile. There wasn't meant to be any harm by it and I could tell from the OP's post that you very much meant for this to be a serious discussion. I just like to joke around sometimes I feel like you might have gotten a completely different vibe from what I wrote and that's okay. If you see one of my posts in the future and it starts off with something stupid or silly like that bait comment, know that it is a joke and is in no way meant to be serious.


There's a little bit of truth to every joke. Don't worry, no one is prosecuting you though.
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Posted 8/26/14

GoldTStar wrote:


Rippedyanu1 wrote:



The bait joke was just that. A joke. There's a reason I put "But Seriously" and then proceeded to write said wall of text. I like to crack a joke once and awhile. There wasn't meant to be any harm by it and I could tell from the OP's post that you very much meant for this to be a serious discussion. I just like to joke around sometimes I feel like you might have gotten a completely different vibe from what I wrote and that's okay. If you see one of my posts in the future and it starts off with something stupid or silly like that bait comment, know that it is a joke and is in no way meant to be serious.


There's a little bit of truth to every joke. Don't worry, no one is prosecuting you though.


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Posted 8/26/14
I have to say that, IMO, Argevollen and Aldnoah are about equally good at this point.

Argevollen - The characters have gotten better and more human as time goes on. But, the lack of background explanation at least makes the military leaders on both sides seem INCREDIBLY stupid. For those of us that know anything about strategy and tactics, it can be quite painfull.

Aldnoah - The strategy and tactics displayed in this mecha show are great. But, way to many characters need to be fleshed out or are from mecha show generic ideas 101.
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Posted 8/26/14

cay032692 wrote:

Surprised Bless isn't in here, or even the OP

Soon.

Even I sleep sometimes.

But you can be sure I'm coming.

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Posted 8/26/14 , edited 8/26/14
I read the first 2 pages of this thread...and I agree with some that both do have some generic elements , things you have seen before .

The way the anime was introduced in episode 1, Aldonah Zero did an excellent job with a bang or rather boom with awesome animation as well and tunes.

Character development wise of main characters,

It took Argevollen in episode 8 to show the history of lead Tokimune and a hint of the captain Samonji character and a little of Jaime. The character did not come out interesting to me until episode 8. The supporting characters are weak. but overall it is starting to come together ...

While in Aldonah Zero , the character that is strongly getting developed is Slaine since episode 1 and then the lieutenant .

However Inaho is still a mistery to me as to why he is good, and why the flat affect and it is driving me nuts a little.
The writting on the supporting characters is done a little better because it held my interest since episode 1 .

Story telling writing wise , Aldonah Zero is doing a better job at it and it has a more logical approach but crazy .Argevollen is coming out abti flat and unrealistic in some ways and predictable.

I almost stoped watching it becuase it was too weak in the writing but decided to marathone it and that helped getting me back into it.

I am not a big mecha war/fights fan , so the writing on the story and the characters are key to making me want to watch it.
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Posted 8/26/14

iblessall wrote:


cay032692 wrote:

Surprised Bless isn't in here, or even the OP

Soon.

Even I sleep sometimes.

But you can be sure I'm coming.



Haha, If you added your points yet?
At this point One just Purely entertains me to no end, From its action/OST and just "pure comedic" material (well not really comedy, but comedy for me )
While the other is beginning to settle on being tolerable and getting better.
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Posted 8/26/14 , edited 8/26/14
You know, sometimes I read these topics and despair of having an actual conversation because some of the people here are 1) Criticizing Argevollen for somethings and giving AZ a free pass on others, 1A) displaying a jaw-dropping amount of bias & lack of willingness to consider that they might not be as right as they think they are, 2) raising unsupported and pointless arguments like "genericness" and "realisticness," and 3) displaying (what appears to me to be) a general lack of understanding of some of the concepts that are getting tossed around (pacing, namely).

...to dive in or not...

Damn it.

Important Note: None of the responses I'm about to give are meant to be a personal attack on anyone. You just happened to raise a point that I wanted to address.



ZeroRequiem_ wrote:
Imo most people would agree that Argevollen just feels too generic (which at times isn't so bad).

"Feels too generic" is not a valid criticism of a show. Being generic may display a lack of creativity, but that's just a shortcut to dismissing the show without actually examining how the show has gone about executing the genre. (Not to mention the fact that Argevollen ACTUALLY seems to be deliberately avoiding a LOT of the common tropes you see in the genre).


Rippedyanu1 wrote:
> Aldnoah.Zero is also handled fairly realistically
> Argevollen on the other hand hasn't done much in terms of being accurate other than the programming of the mech and even then the show is delving more into the super robot genre

So you're dismissing AZ's realism flaws on projections you're making on the antagonists? Not from anything the show has actually shown us?

Also, are we watching the same show in Argevollen? Seriously. The show's been nothing but realistic. There's no OP main character with world-breaking powers—just a squadron of normal people taking their orders and doing their jobs. I'd like to hear some examples of things you think are unrealistic in the show.

Realism is a total BS argument to bring up in this case anyways. What we should be worrying about is adherance to the show's own rules, something Argevollen has done and Aldnoah.Zero. If anything, AV is much closer to being realistic, as all you have to do is turn the mechas into tanks and then you've got WWII on your hands.


Rippedyanu1 wrote:
On characters:

I honestly laughed (I promise, not maliciously) at your points here. You chose to use Captain Magbaredge, who is motivated by revenge, but dismiss Tokimune WHO IS DOING THE EXACT SAME DAMN THING (lost a sibling, joined the military to get answers and revenge). I mean, what the heck, dude?

Generally: I should also ask why it seems to be a commonly held belief that characters have to have some elaborate backstory for them to be counted as valid characters. The thought progression seems to be "backstory=motivations=good character." The fact is that you don't have to have a backstory to do this. We know Tokimune's backstory/motivations, why the complaints? We know Jamie's motivations—we don't need to know her backstory for them to be valid. We've gotten hints (a lot of them, if you pay attention) to the captain's past—and these include his backstory.


Rippedyanu1 wrote:
As you stated in your post, the music, animation, voice acting/sound and overall quality are much higher in Aldnoah.Zero and is helping make for a better series. Argevollen feels recycled while Aldnoah.Zero actually feels like it's trying to break the norm.

I'll agree that the production values are higher in AZ, but if we learned anything from Guilty Crown, it's that pretty colors and nice sounds do not a better series make. And it's a pretty faulty argument to criticize Argevollen's story as feeling "recycled" based on the production values? Two totally unrelated things.


Rippedyanu1 wrote:
We don't know why the nations are at war with each other other than one empire is evil and wants to take over the world. We don't know for what purpose the Argevollen was made. We don't know why Jamie, a clearly unqualified "engineer" was tasked with handling a prototype super weapon that was transported through a freaking WARZONE during live combat. We don't know anything about the company that made the weapon or for what purpose. We don't know much about what started the war to begin with, we are just through haphazardly into it.

........

I just have to ask: is this what most people think? Have you all missed the story that's actually being told so badly?

Argevollen is NOT about the war. It's about the people who fight wars. The reasons for the war don't mean a damn thing in this show, just like they don't in real life. When you're a solider, you don't get to ask questions like that. You just do your job.

These are absolutely the wrong questions to be asking of this show. The answers don't matter, because at the end of the day, the characters still have to do what they're told to do. End of story.



On Argevollen's "pacing" problems

They don't actually exist. The show is actually superbly paced, just at a slower pace than people are expecting. We've been conditioned stuff exactly like AZ to expect crap to be happening for 24 minutes straight.

Again, Argevollen is not that type of show. It's a show about people doing their jobs.

It's no problem if that's just not your kind of things, but don't criticize the show for doing something well that you happen to not gel with. It's not a problem with the show. It's a difference in interests.

qualeshia3 wrote:

This is all a matter of opinion.

True, and that's why we're having a discussion!


Rippedyanu1 wrote:
Argevollen has no likeable characters. None. Tokimune is a dumbass no matter how you slice it and isn't a pilot other than "to find out who killed my sister", then why the hell didn't he have a different god damn job, like a mechanic? Sure piloting ranks faster but that's because you are a hell of a lot more likely to die. Jamie is a ditz who should have already died by now, especially during her running through a goddamn war zone, as should at least half the characters but then it wouldn't be a show now would it?

If you are going to complain about Jamie's run through the war zone, then I get to complain about the ABSOLUTE BS that was "discovering" a hidden port that had a super battleship hidden inside.

You want plot contrivances? AZ has the biggest one yet this season to its name.

NOTE: Again, none of these are personal attacks. When I use "you," it's just because it makes the argument easier to frame, not because I'm directing anything at a specific person.
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Posted 8/26/14 , edited 8/26/14
All this long writing is confusing me. People try their best to prove their points when being clear and precise is all you need IF someone will change their mind.

Aldnoah is better but if I gave both anime ratings right now I would say Aldnoah 6/10 and Argevollen is 4.5/10

Presentation - Aldnoah has a much better OST and Animation

Story - 'Heavens fall' is interesting, in terms of thinking outside the box, Martians is better than another Country attacking albeit it's quite common. Argevollen has nothing uncommon to it's story

Writing - Argevollen is consistent but extremely predictable, Aldnoah (like all Urobuchi's work) has exposition delivered illogically. With that said, even though outcomes are predictable, the show does well at presenting the events that lead to them

Characters- I have no problems with Inaho, he has shown greed, motivation and happiness. He is definitely a breath of fresh air in terms of main characters. Cpt. Samonji has the potential to become quite interesting.

I'm liking Rayet and Slaine the most in A.Z
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Posted 8/26/14

iblessall wrote:





Still not getting involved in this. I'm going to enjoy both shows. The differing viewpoints are a good read though.
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49 / M / KC
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Posted 8/26/14

iashakezula wrote:

I read the first 2 pages of this thread...and I agree with some that both do have generic elements

The way the anime was introduced in episode 1, Aldonah Zero did an excellent job with a bang or rather boom.

Character development wise of main characters,
It took Argevollen in episode 8 to show the history of lead Tokimune and a hint of the captain Samonji character and a little of Jaime. The character did not come out interesting to me until episode 8. The supporting characters are weak.

While in Aldonah Zero , the character that is strongly getting developed is Slaine since episode 1 and then the lieutenant .

However Inaho is still a mistery to me as to why he is good, and why the flat affect and it is driving me nuts a little.
The writting on the supporting characters is done a little better because it held my interest since episode 1 .

Story telling writing wise , Aldonah Zero is doing a better job at it and it has a more logical approach .Argevollen is coming out flat and abit unrealistic .
I almost stoped watching it but decided to marathone it and that helped.

I am not a big mecha war fan , so the writing on the story and the characters are key to making me want to watch it.


I pretty much agree with everything you have said.

Most of these arguments revolve around people trying to post logical arguments for liking what they like. There are good points raised by many people in this thread, and some willful ignorance of flaws. But when it comes to determining "quality" there is still the belief that there is some objective, universal set of criteria for evaluating show. There is not, imo.

For me, I found one show more entertaining than the other. And in a time when my free time is scarce, how quickly a show can get your attention is key.

As iblessall said, this thread is kind of baity, but it is fair to ask why some people like one show more than another. In this case, I don't think there is a wrong answer: both shows have good points as well as bad.
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Posted 8/26/14


You're right! I just find it funny how these types of thread just pop up out of thin air.

Personally, I enjoy both show equally. I guess that is just the mecha fan in me feeling this way.
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Posted 8/26/14
I find both of them mediocre, and preferred AZ just because I like a few of the characters (sadly none of the mcs).
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25 / M / This Dying World
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Posted 8/26/14
In reality this is a VS thread which is not particularly allowed.

something about flaming and baiting.
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25 / M / Somewhere.... per...
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Posted 8/26/14
It's disappointing how Aldnoah.Zero betrayed my high expectation...
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