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Assuming you have used both, which roku app is better?
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36 / F / Guam
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Posted 8/31/14
Math fail. Like roku fail. Stupid and preventable.
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49 / M
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Posted 9/1/14 , edited 9/1/14
A) I voted.
And yes, I can believe that 10% who voted like the new app or at least aren't upset.
But I don't believe they read and obeyed the setup:
"You have to have used the old app on the Roku" to vote.

Also, bear in mind 50% of the population's intelligence is below average, so ~10% isn't surprising.
Even the US Congress has a higher rating that that -- it was "12% approval" in the last poll I read.
Geez! Think about that --- people like Congress better than the new Roku app.
-- yeah I know, this isn't such a scientific poll.

B)
Of all that has happened with the Roku fiasco ( and it is a fiasco ), I am most upset about CR's comments, nonsensical explanations, and lack of attention.

They seem to be spinning 2 lines at once.
One, the decent side, has fixes and some first steps to address the issues, the other side seems to represent insular management and claims all is well, and it is just a bunch of complainers who are too dimwitted to learn the new app.

Okay, they don't say the last part, but if the response to a failed piece of software is to make docs and you tube vids, this means they think the problem is "the user has failed."

But I am not surprised.
In small to huge companies I've worked for, the decision makers will virtually never admit an error - it is always the fool customer, the economy is bad, people with negative attitudes wrecked the good will of the project, "we had to do it because ..." or "But some people liked it." and so forth.

This is what Sony did when it was blind-sided by the MP3 format and thought the best defense to win back customers was to create their own proprietary format Atrac Audio (for 10 years). Yeah, that went well. Some people liked that too. Same with the Microsoft Zune and a host of other disaster MS products: Insular management.

So CR's best move seems to be more along the lines of ignore reality and "Let them eat cake!"

One recent exception in the Anime world, and something for CR to look at:
When Anime Expo (Los Angeles, just this July) really blew it on their registration process, they had the humility to post "an open letter to their attendees" about their short comings and problems.

It did not exactly come have out as the frank apology some wanted for the misery at the con, but in the letter did list critical errors, and imagine this: listed specific and clear changes to the convention still a year away.; all just a few days after the con wrapped.
It gave some hope next year will be better, and helped some feel like they were listened to.

I don't see such clarity here on the Roku.

Heck, the only reason I had a Roku was to watch CR!
Netflix and others are on every imaginable device already, and their app is sure looking smart right about now.
If you are going to imitate someone, at least imitate someone successful.
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Posted 9/1/14 , edited 9/1/14
Now that Chernin owns CR and they have deep pockets, they don't care to loose a few annoying Roku users like us. For every Roku user they loose, they get 10 new ones because they now are present at every anime convention possible.
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Posted 9/1/14 , edited 9/1/14

Neemo18 wrote: Now that Chernin owns CR and they have deep pockets, they don't care to loose a few annoying Roku users like us. For every Roku user they loose, they get 10 new ones because they now are present at every anime convention possible.

Two things here.

First, Chernin is an investor, they are not running Crunchyroll. Based on Crunchyroll's history of growth, they likely bought in assuming that it could keep on running itself.

So if there's an impact from Chernin, it'll be more indirect, like being able to expand their hiring more rapidly, resulting in a watering down of the corporate culture that Crunchyroll had in its first half decade of being a legit streaming service.

Second, the specific view, "we are going to get people by going to conventions, we can afford to lose X% of Roku users" isn't how corporations think. Corporations are greedier than that. They want the money from the subscriptions generated by marketing at conventions plus the subscriptions that fall into their lap for free because of word of mouth advertising.

The problem is more like someone has bought into a particular story line ~ this "streamlined app" story line ~ without understanding that getting the subscriptions "for free" from word of mouth advertising on the Roku isn't really for free, its been because of Crunchyroll investing over time in continuing to improve the Roku app. And because it was a process of incremental improvement, the "big changes" did not change things across the board, and the major points of complaint were things like the queue being only 10 series long, which they fixed by upping the maximum to 50.

The problem with the "starting from scratch" upgrade is that the design had to be signed off on at a higher level, and so there is somebody in some executive position, with all of the defensiveness about their decisions that goes along with that, with their ego on the line regarding the decision to approve the "starting from scratch" approach.

Fixes that require higher level approval than "expand the queue from a maximum of 10 to a maximum of 50" are far more likely to generate this, "know, let me teach you, oh passionate but ultimately quite stupid user, how to use this superior upgrade," attitude ...

... which the Chernin group would likely not approve of, because the word of mouth subscriptions are quite cost-effective and are part of the financial performance and growth prospects that they were buying into.

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Posted 9/1/14

agila61 wrote:

They are "flawed" in that they are internet polls, not scientific samples, but there's no telling which way the bias runs ... it can also be that there are people who are reluctant to talk up in support of the new app faced with the vigorous criticism of it, who are looking for a poll so they can express their view without getting the risk of being viciously attacked by the juvenile element that goes overboard in these things.


The "success" of polls like this is that it does at least give a general overview.

The new Roku app has to be doing something right, otherwise it wouldn't get any votes at all.
But it is very clearly not getting enough right, otherwise it would be rating a lot higher.

There are several groups (on both sides) whose opinions aren't getting counted:

People who don't want to pick sides. Anyone sitting on the fence may have preferences running largely in one direction, but might not want to come down firmly on one side or the other. People who like the new app may not want to vote for it, because of its flaws. People who dislike it may not want to vote for the old app because they lie what the new app was aiming for... even if they dislike where it currently falls.

People who comfortably use the new app. For all its flaws, some people may just plod along an episode at a time. And because it still plays shows, and now has nice shiney HD, may not think of looking into the forums to express an opinion.
(And I can only assume CR will have some sort of stats

Similarly, people who stop using the app for a while. They're waiting for fixes but, for whatever reason, haven't ventured into the forums.

People, both sides, who just want to keep their heads down:
- Like the app, but don't feel up to facing the vitriol of those for whom it doesn't work.
- Dislike the app, but don't want to step into the fray.
- Anyone playing "Wait and See".

And, I guess, people who dislike polls and surveys. ;-)

Also, don't forget that there will be people directly voicing their concerns to Crunchyroll, likely in both directions. People giving praise. People giving criticisms. People cancelling their subscription.

But despite all the flaws with polls, I can only assume all the feedback together can help CR get a better picture of where they went wrong, where they didn't, and what things need fixing in which order.
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55 / M / Northeast Ohio, USA
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Posted 9/1/14

TiggsPanther wrote: People, both sides, who just want to keep their heads down:
- Like the app, but don't feel up to facing the vitriol of those for whom it doesn't work.
- Dislike the app, but don't want to step into the fray.
- Anyone playing "Wait and See".

And, I guess, people who dislike polls and surveys. ;-)


I expect that these two are part of what will generate a different population for people who make comments and people who vote in polls. Since your response is anonymous, some of the people who like to keep their heads down during a controversy can vote in a poll and still keep their head down, while those who don't like polls (for whatever reason) may still feel like making a comment.
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49 / M
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Posted 9/1/14

TiggsPanther wrote:


agila61 wrote:

They are "flawed" in that they are internet polls, not scientific samples, but there's no telling which way the bias runs ... it can also be that there are people who are reluctant to talk up in support of the new app faced with the vigorous criticism of it, who are looking for a poll so they can express their view without getting the risk of being viciously attacked by the juvenile element that goes overboard in these things.


The "success" of polls like this is that it does at least give a general overview.

The new Roku app has to be doing something right, otherwise it wouldn't get any votes at all.
But it is very clearly not getting enough right, otherwise it would be rating a lot higher.

There are several groups (on both sides) whose opinions aren't getting counted:

People who don't want to pick sides. Anyone sitting on the fence may have preferences running largely in one direction, but might not want to come down firmly on one side or the other. People who like the new app may not want to vote for it, because of its flaws. People who dislike it may not want to vote for the old app because they lie what the new app was aiming for... even if they dislike where it currently falls.

People who comfortably use the new app. For all its flaws, some people may just plod along an episode at a time. And because it still plays shows, and now has nice shiney HD, may not think of looking into the forums to express an opinion.
(And I can only assume CR will have some sort of stats

Similarly, people who stop using the app for a while. They're waiting for fixes but, for whatever reason, haven't ventured into the forums.

People, both sides, who just want to keep their heads down:
- Like the app, but don't feel up to facing the vitriol of those for whom it doesn't work.
- Dislike the app, but don't want to step into the fray.
- Anyone playing "Wait and See".

And, I guess, people who dislike polls and surveys. ;-)

Also, don't forget that there will be people directly voicing their concerns to Crunchyroll, likely in both directions. People giving praise. People giving criticisms. People cancelling their subscription.

But despite all the flaws with polls, I can only assume all the feedback together can help CR get a better picture of where they went wrong, where they didn't, and what things need fixing in which order.



All excellent points, and I assume this applies not just to this voting, but any comments in forums or elsewhere.

I know my natural tendency is to ignore problems like this or just drift away.
There are lots of stores, web sites, etc that I loved, then left without a word to the people involved.

This usually occurred when I was pissed off about something, but I knew or believed it wasn't worth arguing the corporate/management line. Places like Amazon thrive because of powerful user reviews, and solid customer support.

There is no sure way to know for sure, but I assume some/many people just have better things to do rather than get involved or post to forums, and would prefer to text a friend instead.

Some may just dump CR, and not bother to fill out the "Why are you cancelling" questions, sort of like unsubscribing to emails. Some users may just stop watching and "disappear" as customers without a word.

Once again [not exactly related to the voting], I can't believe CR commentary about how much users like the new interface, and the need to follow a vision!
Such comments are staggering to me.
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Posted 9/1/14

agila61 wrote:


Neemo18 wrote: Now that Chernin owns CR and they have deep pockets, they don't care to loose a few annoying Roku users like us. For every Roku user they loose, they get 10 new ones because they now are present at every anime convention possible.

First, Chernin is an investor, they are not running Crunchyroll.
Actually, they did buy a majority stake and do effectively own and control Crunchyroll.
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Posted 9/1/14 , edited 9/1/14
Ok, how about a slightly different poll
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55 / M / Northeast Ohio, USA
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Posted 9/1/14

mackey wrote:


agila61 wrote:


Neemo18 wrote: Now that Chernin owns CR and they have deep pockets, they don't care to loose a few annoying Roku users like us. For every Roku user they loose, they get 10 new ones because they now are present at every anime convention possible.

First, Chernin is an investor, they are not running Crunchyroll.
Actually, they did buy a majority stake and do effectively own and control Crunchyroll.

Yes. You'll notice that your statement doesn't contradiction mine, since "own and control" and "run" are two different things.

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Posted 9/1/14 , edited 9/1/14
If you want to be depressed, track down and read the transcript of Chernin's most recent earnings call. These are not customer-focused people. These are purely profit-focused people. I know a business needs a profit, but the complete sidelining of the actual customer in their dialogue is quite obvious and off-putting. They even talk about eliminating groups of customers who don't contribute to the bottom line. If you get something you like, it's only because they can maximize profits in so doing, not because they care one iota about your enjoyment of the service.

I'm not kidding or exaggerating. Go find the transcript, you'll see.
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Posted 9/2/14
Voted for the old app
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36 / F / Guam
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Posted 9/3/14
Where did you find that transcript?
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Posted 9/3/14 , edited 9/3/14

burrkitty wrote:

Where did you find that transcript?


I think this is the one I was looking at. Cinedigm is the actual name of the organization the Chernin Group runs, as I understand it.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/2421475-cinedigms-cidm-ceo-chris-mcgurk-on-q1-2014-results-earnings-call-transcript

Note that the page will try to prevent you from reading the whole transcript if you are not one of its subscribers, but the text is all there if you view the page source. Lines 400-600, approximately. Just copy and paste into a text editor that does word wrapping and you should be able to read it just fine.

Oh, hey, that's back in Q1. Here's Q2:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/1838222-cinedigm-management-discusses-q2-2014-results-earnings-call-transcript

And here's Q3:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/2020801-cinedigm-management-discusses-q3-2014-results-earnings-call-transcript

I haven't read Q2 & Q3. I'll take a look later. These things genuinely depress me, though. I'm not sure I want to read more of them.


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Posted 9/3/14 , edited 9/4/14
that is so depressing... like... really.
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