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If the 13 Colonies...
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22 / M / New York
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Posted 8/31/14
If the 13 original Colonies of "America" never arrived, said "screw this", or got wiped out, thus' America never even ceasing to exist properly, what do you think our whole landmass would be like today? Without America for all those years up until now, how do you think events will play out?
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26 / M / Socal
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Posted 8/31/14 , edited 9/1/14
Mexico and Canada

Canico?
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43 / M / Ramona, California
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Posted 9/1/14 , edited 9/1/14
Hmmm... This would be entirely speculation, so take anything with a grain of salt.

I'll start by making the assumption that England would no longer be a colonial power in North America due to internal strife or something more peculiar like a military defeat that forces England to give up her imperial ambitions in the New World. That takes the Court of St. James completely out of the equation, leaving three primary colonial powers: the French, Spanish, and Dutch.

French territories would have remained very large, maintaining the entire Mississippi Valley and eventually up the Ohio. The Dutch would have branched out from New Amsterdam up the Hudson, over in through Pennsylvania, into Massachusetts Bay and beyond, and down the Delaware. The Spanish would have expanded the holdings of Florida northwards up through the Carolinas and to the southern shore of the Potomac plus westward to the Mobile River. The Republic of Texas would have never happened and California and the Great Basin states would still be Spanish.

Some cities would still be the same, if only with different names. Savannah, with its access to the navigable James River, is a perfect place for a city. Yet other cities, like Washington which was built in a swamp that nobody in their right mind wanted, would have never been created. Still others would have been moved significantly. In the case of Boston, it would be more centered around Portsmouth, as that's where the resources of wood and furs would have been coming through rather than picking a site based the dream of creating a perfect Puritanical "City Of God".

Of course, this is just the colonial phase. Once everyone got settled into their initial starting positions, the warfare would come heavily into play. As a strategic move, I would see an alliance between the American Dutch and the French against the Spanish to be likely. France would need an ally against Spain, which would first try to seize New Orleans and the mouth of the Mississippi, as this is an extremely strategic location. France needs to keep it to maintain her connection to the sea while Spain needs to connect their North American holdings across the south. And without the Dutch moving south across the Potomac to threaten Florida's northern border, it would be too simple for Spain to pinch in on Louisiana and take it. France has an added ally given its traditional good relations with the native tribes. This would be used to further distract Spanish troops up and down the Pearl River.

...

And I'm running short of more ideas at the moment. But that's how I see the first couple of hundred years of colonization, expansion, and warfare playing out.

It's an interesting concept. I'll probably play with it some more later on. But for now, I've got Sabagebu! on pause while I get some words out of my head. And cute-girls-shooting-cute-guns is a bit more pressing at the moment.
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24 / M / Northern California
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Posted 9/1/14 , edited 9/1/14

OffColfax wrote:



I'm really hoping that you actually decide to expand on this, if you were to write a novel based on what you just posted I'm sure it would be a real page-turner!
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24 / M / Under your skin.
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Posted 9/1/14
So, I'm not great with this era of history so maybe I'm way out of line here but if America never became "America" and the revolutionary war never happens what's to stop England and the French from taking over?

Maybe the revolutionary war turns into the England/France war, or maybe it's settled through political means.

*shrug*
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24 / F / Johnstown, PA, USA
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Posted 9/1/14


You're good...

Any thoughts on the mostly German immigrants who, in our timeline, migrated over in the 1600-1700's and founded the Amish and Mennonites, and later became known as the Pennsylvania Dutch?
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F / The Far Shore
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Posted 9/1/14 , edited 9/1/14
canada will finally reign as the best and most free country in the world. we will rise
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54 / M / Tacoma, WA. wind...
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Posted 9/1/14
More "Americans" would be biracial.... The French and to a degree the Spanish were more interested in miscegenation rather than segregation. There is even the possibility that many Native Americans would have been able to keep more or maybe even all of their autonomy. It would be kind of interesting to dig into the possibilities that new waves of immigrants would have been directed differently without the overwhelming influence of the Brits.

If you go on the assumption that NO colony would have survived then you'd be looking at the native cultures evolving into great nations of their own.... Although they would probably have encountered the same types of problems that middle-eastern tribal cultures had at the beginning of the modern era. (WW1) Who would have been the Lowrance of Arabia for them? When would that transition happened? How would those cultures come to terms with differing beliefs and customs?

How would England or any of the nations of Europe fared in light of the religious revolutions that fueled groups like the Puritans crossing the sea to escape the grasps of The Church of England and the Catholic Church?

Questions, questions . . . questions...

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24 / M / Under your skin.
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Posted 9/1/14

awune wrote:

canada will finally reign as the best and most free country in the world. we will rise


Will you accept me in your country? I don't like the US very much.
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F / The Far Shore
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Posted 9/1/14

Still_Ginger wrote:


awune wrote:

canada will finally reign as the best and most free country in the world. we will rise


Will you accept me in your country? I don't like the US very much.


sure! you might have to be initiated though...

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24 / F / Johnstown, PA, USA
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Posted 9/1/14 , edited 9/1/14
Wait...


I'm more than a tad bothered of the effects that the hypothetical situation would have upon anime, manga, VNs, video games, RPG's, manhua, etc... In a way, we're SOL. lol
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43 / M / Ramona, California
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Posted 9/1/14 , edited 9/1/14

aeb0717 wrote:



You're good...

Any thoughts on the mostly German immigrants who, in our timeline, migrated over in the 1600-1700's and founded the Amish and Mennonites, and later became known as the Pennsylvania Dutch?




Thanks, you two. It's not the first time I've been told I need to start writing books. Worldbuilding is one of my hobbies, after all. And I've come up with a couple of interesting backgrounds already. (Like this one over here, for example: http://www.reddit.com/r/worldbuilding/comments/23t0xw/how_do_people_in_your_world_dispose_of_corpses/ch1dfq1) So maybe I should add "An Alternate Reality Of North America Without English Colonies" to my to-do list.

As for the question of the Amish and Mennonites... Let me so dome more wild speculation.

I'm initially uncertain as to how exactly it would work. Remember, the various Anabaptist sects came across after the Puritans had already established the idea of fleeing to the Colonies to avoid religious persecution. Without the Puritans to act as trailblazers for the Anabaptists, I doubt they would have so easily figured it out on their own so quickly. Remember, Habsburg-era Tyrol, Bavaria, and Switzerland were not exactly colonial powers in our timeline. So they would have needed to get to get out before anything else could happen, quite probably through France for the Swiss Anabaptists (those that became the Amish and Mennonites we know today).

But given my initial carving up of North America, they would not have landed in the Pennsylvania region. That would be under the control of the Low Lands, a state that had become very hostile to that entire segment of the Christian faith. Anabaptists in Amsterdam were just as persecuted there as they were in Innsbruck and Munich, after all. So through France they would find their escape and through France they would find their colonial homes, possibly settling in the Missouri and Kansas areas and then drifting into Illinois and Nebraska as they further splinter into the Amish and Mennonite faiths. I don't think they would have had the political adaptability it would have required to be titled as Les Habitants in the Montreal area but that might be a plausibility, settling down in the textile regions around Magog. (And probably insist that the name was changed to something a bit less Biblically sinful than something cited in Revelations as being where the armies of Satan were to be raised....)

Again, just random thoughts. Maybe they'll stay. Maybe not. But it's a good enough concept to start making new pages in my personal wiki.
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24 / M / Under your skin.
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Posted 9/1/14

awune wrote:


Still_Ginger wrote:


awune wrote:

canada will finally reign as the best and most free country in the world. we will rise


Will you accept me in your country? I don't like the US very much.


sure! you might have to be initiated though...




I'm not sure whether to be excited or scared...
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27 / M / ihlok
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Posted 9/1/14 , edited 9/1/14
i'm surprised no one discussed WW2. USA's involvement has been critical in ending it. without US i think it'd have been a war of attrition and... a lot more of deaths.
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M
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Posted 9/1/14
Too many parameters for a decent alternative history to be fleshed out. Try just one cause being changed, like Amerindians not being susceptible to small pox.
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