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The fate series explained plz
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Posted 9/16/14

Kitanishi wrote:


HadouKirby wrote:


Kitanishi wrote:

If we are using that logic both Fate/Apocrypha AND Fate/Zero are fanfiction since both started as doujin novels by the fans of the project. So no. Illya is still canon.


No, by that logic, that would just mean that Zero and Apocrypha are also fanfiction. Heh.

But seriously now, Zero was supervised by Nasu and actually has some relevance to the theme of SN (ideal of a hero of justice and all that), while Apocrypha, Prototype Fragments, and Prisma Illya all only really borrow the concept of the Grail War. It's the themes of SN and Zero that make the story, the Grail War is just the backdrop and the setting. But really, the point is that Prisma Illya has no real relevance other than fanservice and such. Good fanservice, but fanservice nonetheless.

Also, neither Zero or Apocrypha started out as doujin novels. Zero was a formal prequel, Apocrypha was a failed MMO project.


Methinks you should read-up on the history of how Fate/Zero was published before talking.

Also Illya is no less of a "fanservice spin off" than Apocrypha is. And it is under Type Moon's supervision too.

Prisma Illya is part of nasuverse just as FSN apocrypha KNK and Tsukihime, etc are. And they are all equally canon, whether you like them or not.

Prototype has nothing to do with this since its officially not-canon


And Prisma is officially non-canon too.



"Before you folks get too excited, please remember that Priya is really just fanfiction." -Hiroyama
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Posted 9/16/14
I will put this way. It nearly imposible to know every content on fate universe.
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Posted 9/16/14 , edited 9/16/14

HadouKirby wrote:


Kitanishi wrote:


HadouKirby wrote:


Kitanishi wrote:

If we are using that logic both Fate/Apocrypha AND Fate/Zero are fanfiction since both started as doujin novels by the fans of the project. So no. Illya is still canon.


No, by that logic, that would just mean that Zero and Apocrypha are also fanfiction. Heh.

But seriously now, Zero was supervised by Nasu and actually has some relevance to the theme of SN (ideal of a hero of justice and all that), while Apocrypha, Prototype Fragments, and Prisma Illya all only really borrow the concept of the Grail War. It's the themes of SN and Zero that make the story, the Grail War is just the backdrop and the setting. But really, the point is that Prisma Illya has no real relevance other than fanservice and such. Good fanservice, but fanservice nonetheless.

Also, neither Zero or Apocrypha started out as doujin novels. Zero was a formal prequel, Apocrypha was a failed MMO project.


Methinks you should read-up on the history of how Fate/Zero was published before talking.

Also Illya is no less of a "fanservice spin off" than Apocrypha is. And it is under Type Moon's supervision too.

Prisma Illya is part of nasuverse just as FSN apocrypha KNK and Tsukihime, etc are. And they are all equally canon, whether you like them or not.

Prototype has nothing to do with this since its officially not-canon


And Prisma is officially non-canon too.



"Before you folks get too excited, please remember that Priya is really just fanfiction." -Hiroyama


And I answered this already - so is Fate/Zero and Apocrypha. Fiction written by a fan. Fate/Zero was even published as doujin novel for a while because Butcher refused deals not wanting people to read it before FSN.

When I think about it even Tsukihime started as doujin game.

Also that translation has already been proven to not be exactly accurate and if you followed Hiroyama's Twitter for a while you would know to not take his tweets at face value - what he is implying is that he is just writing the story he wanted and its not intended to be a prequel or something to any other existing type moon work, since that question came from the speculation that
.

Kaleid Liner did start as a fanfic work, but got validated by Type Moon and is acknowledged by Type Moon as part of the canon.
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Posted 9/16/14 , edited 9/16/14
Actually you can buy the visual novel from J-List (http://www.jlist.com/product/PCG0296 because browsing that site can be NSFW).

On topic: In my opinion you can't tell what to watch before the new FSN anime until at least 1 episode has aired, probably more.
On a more positive note, knowing how Fate/Zero was going to end didn't ruin the experience for me because I wanted to know HOW we got there. A bit of the whole journey before destination, life before death sort of thing.

Perhaps the order I watched things in might help you:
1) Fate/Stay Night (2004 TV)
2) Fate/kaleid liner Prisma Illya (http://www.crunchyroll.com/fatekaleid-liner-prisma-illya)
3) Fate/Zero (http://www.crunchyroll.com/fate-zero)
4) Fate/Stay Night Unlimited Blade Works (2010 film)
5) Carnival Phantasm (2011 OVA)

I started watching 1 because I heard that it was necessary to understand what was going on in 2, which I'd just started. I wasn't terribly impressed with 1 but I did finish it in a week or two so it can't have been terrible. Personally I think the biggest problem is that there isn't anyone who can properly explain what the hell is going on, followed by the tenancy to have long close-ups of Shiro's face for no particular reason. Also Shiro's sheer idiocy (you're a wizard, you stay behind the fighter you numbskull). Perhaps I've just gotten higher standards since I watched it. But the action was good and so was the way the story kept going and the harem kept expanding (which I found pretty funny TBH).

I enjoyed 2, partly for the humour, partly for the epic battles and soundtrack. IIRC I'd recently watched Madoka Magica and I was looking for more magical girls. I think watching 1 after the first episode or two definitely let me enjoy the series more, even if I didn't get any of the 3 references at the time. I'd personally recommend watching this after watching 3.

3 is probably my favourite series ever, with the possible exception of Madoka Magica, I do think that watching this before 1 would have been a mistake.

4 was probably a waste of time. It felt horribly rushed to fit the whole story into a film and without having seen 1 it would have no idea at all what was happening. I'd advise most people skip it.

I enjoyed the Fate parts of 5 but much of the rest of it was completely lost on me (for good reason) so I'd recommend either catching up with all the source material or finding the fate clips somewhere separate (assuming someone was bothered enough to compile them)

Perhaps I should mention I'm reading the light novels of Fate/Zero? Hmm it's a very long post.

tl;dr
Wait and see I guess, otherwise don't worry too much.
This other post http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-866973/fateguide-everything-you-need-to-know-to-get-into-the-series seems pretty informative.
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Posted 9/16/14

Kitanishi wrote:
And I answered this already - so is Fate/Zero and Apocrypha. Fiction written by a fan. Fate/Zero was even published as doujin novel for a while because Butcher refused deals not wanting people to read it before FSN.

When I think about it even Tsukihime started as doujin game.

Also that translation has already been proven to not be exactly accurate and if you followed Hiroyama's Twitter for a while you would know to not take his tweets at face value - what he is implying is that he is just writing the story he wanted and its not intended to be a prequel or something to any other existing type moon work, since that question came from the speculation that
.

Kaleid Liner did start as a fanfic work, but got validated by Type Moon and is acknowledged by Type Moon as part of the canon.


Something being published by TM doesn't make it canon: see Carnival Phantasm. And where exactly are you getting the "Type Moon says that Prisma Illya is canon with respect to the rest of franchise thing from?" Did anyone actually say that, or is this another lol!SecondMagic thing again?

And regardless of whether or not it's considered canon, there's the other issue of it being pretty much irrelevant to the main timeline and core of the Fate/ series: Zero => SN. As it's been said before, it's merely fanservice for fans of the original series, and is undeniably a spin-off. Basically, it's less relevant to the Nasuverse than say, KnK, Tsukihime, hell, even DDD. It's basically about as important as Hana no Miyako, except Prisma received an adaptation.
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Posted 9/17/14
I have also seen something name Fate prototype and Fate Stay Night TV reproduction. Where do those two go in the watching order?
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Posted 9/17/14 , edited 9/17/14

Meroko26 wrote:

I have also seen something name Fate prototype and Fate Stay Night TV reproduction. Where do those two go in the watching order?


Fate/Prototype is a non-canon video, more or less. ITs a few minute long animation that covers the beginning of the ideas of Kinoko Nasu that eventually evolved into Fate/Stay Night.

TV Reproduction is basically re-release of DEEN-FSN in higher definition.

Fate/Prototype can be fun to see once one is familiar with the franchise, but the tv reproduction is better avoided just like the "original" DEEN-FSN.



HadouKirby wrote:


Kitanishi wrote:
And I answered this already - so is Fate/Zero and Apocrypha. Fiction written by a fan. Fate/Zero was even published as doujin novel for a while because Butcher refused deals not wanting people to read it before FSN.

When I think about it even Tsukihime started as doujin game.

Also that translation has already been proven to not be exactly accurate and if you followed Hiroyama's Twitter for a while you would know to not take his tweets at face value - what he is implying is that he is just writing the story he wanted and its not intended to be a prequel or something to any other existing type moon work, since that question came from the speculation that
.

Kaleid Liner did start as a fanfic work, but got validated by Type Moon and is acknowledged by Type Moon as part of the canon.


Something being published by TM doesn't make it canon: see Carnival Phantasm. And where exactly are you getting the "Type Moon says that Prisma Illya is canon with respect to the rest of franchise thing from?" Did anyone actually say that, or is this another lol!SecondMagic thing again?

And regardless of whether or not it's considered canon, there's the other issue of it being pretty much irrelevant to the main timeline and core of the Fate/ series: Zero => SN. As it's been said before, it's merely fanservice for fans of the original series, and is undeniably a spin-off. Basically, it's less relevant to the Nasuverse than say, KnK, Tsukihime, hell, even DDD. It's basically about as important as Hana no Miyako, except Prisma received an adaptation.


Carnival Phantasm is not as much of a world, as it is a phenomenon. The events shown in it are not canon, but Ahnenerbe Cafe is. And theoretically worlds showcased there are possible, because yes, "lolsecond magic" - infinite parallel worlds.

There's no main timeline. Your personal opinion about relevant means nothing. KNK and Tsukihime are also "irrelevant" to FSN, hell, one could argue F/Z is "irrelevant" since FSN covers it somewhat. Just as future unknown number of years after Mahoyo splits into KnK and Tsukihime, the period
splits the timeline into FSN and Prisma Illya.

Ignoring your aneurysm-causing argument that "Prisma Illya is non-canon because it less connected to FSN, but KNK is totally canon, despite its even less connected to FSN"...

Nasuverse is a multiverse of infinite parallel worlds. Also yeah, second magic and the concept on which it operates is the proof of it. and Prisma Illya is part of it an just as canon as the rest of it. It adheres by the set rules, it features concepts and characters already present in other nasuverse parts, its managed and published by Type Moon. We know that Canaan is not canon, for example(Because Nasu stated as much), but Prisma Illya for all intents and purposes is. You don't like it? Well that's your problem, not the franchise's.
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Posted 9/17/14

Kitanishi wrote:


*cough* purist b.s. *cough*
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Posted 9/18/14 , edited 9/18/14
Whats the difference form the original visual novel and the new one coming to Vita?
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Posted 9/18/14 , edited 9/18/14

Afan42 wrote:

Whats the difference form the original visual novel and the new one coming to Vita?


The vita version came out in 2012. It contains new visuals, remixed soundtrack, additional scenes that expand upon various plot points , etc.

If we are to talk about The thing that is coming to PS VIta soon, thats Fate/Hollow Ataraxia - its set one year after FSN events, but not in any of three worlds that FSN covers and it goes more in depth into the nature of Holy Grail War, as well as expanding upon various plot points from FSN and filling in the blanks about various details there. Most likely yet again with remixed sountrack, additional scenes, visuals, etc.
Posted 9/18/14 , edited 9/18/14

xCrimsonEX wrote:


Kitanishi wrote:
*cough* purist b.s. *cough*




Using the word purist is just an underhanded method to abase our own misgivings about the series as if the are not valid. Are our opinions really that deleterious to your well being?
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Posted 9/18/14 , edited 9/18/14

PeripheralVisionary wrote:



Purist: a person who insists on absolute adherence to traditional rules or structures, especially in language or style.


This pretty much sums up how I see it, albeit with some words changed to fit this medium. The Deen adaptation is a fine series yet because it doesn't stick to the original material it gets repeatedly brushed off and degraded by a certain section of the fans. You're basically saying that this version isn't worth watching, when its perfectly fine as an introduction to the series.

You can believe whatever you want however I will make sure to give a counterpoint to it as well, since I believe its a fine anime (not great but not horrible either).
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Posted 9/18/14
That's why this form was made, so that people could come into the series easier and enjoy it.
Posted 9/19/14 , edited 9/19/14

xCrimsonEX wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Purist: a person who insists on absolute adherence to traditional rules or structures, especially in language or style.
This pretty much sums up how I see it, albeit with some words changed to fit this medium. The Deen adaptation is a fine series yet because it doesn't stick to the original material it gets repeatedly brushed off and degraded by a certain section of the fans. You're basically saying that this version isn't worth watching, when its perfectly fine as an introduction to the series.

You can believe whatever you want however I will make sure to give a counterpoint to it as well, since I believe its a fine anime (not great but not horrible either).



It is no more irksome to call someone a purist than it is to call someone who likes Naruto a Narutard or Weaboo, which is why I personally avoid such terms.
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Posted 9/19/14 , edited 9/19/14

PeripheralVisionary wrote:


You can see it however you want, insult/degradation/w.e., but it doesn't change that at the core it fits. If someone basically hates something because its not 100% accurate to the origin then they are a purist.
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