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Does education matter even anymore?
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Posted 9/15/14
For the most part, I would say yes, school is good. Especially elementary school, as I would argue that most the stuff I've learned in the subjects that matter in elementary school I still use. The one problem I have with school is all of the courses I'm required to take that teach me nothing and will not help me, like literature.

I've never once actually liked literature, and I really started hating it back in middle school once I noticed that it was useless. The majority of the tiny bit I learned in literature since middle school is useless, and the extremely tiny bit that helped me could have and was taught in other classes indirectly. Nothing against those that enjoy the class, but I hate it. I've also had an idea on what kind of career I was going to pursue for a while now, and I can tell you right now that literature has little to do with it.

If schools would let me have more say on what classes I take, school would be great. I would stop taking literature (I have to take 1-2 more to graduate) and throw in another math, science, or something with computers. I would consider taking another foreign language if I could.

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18 / M / Virginia, USA
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Posted 9/15/14
Education does indeed matter. I'm still a student in high school (junior), however I already realize the need for a strong education in society. The world is full of people that have never cared about education, and they suffer because of it, along with making those that value their own education suffer also. In order to obtain a good job AND be proficient at it, you need background knowledge from school, college, and the like. However, some parts of education are unnecessary, especially in the public schools system (which I am a part of), like extraneous classes that individuals have no need of nor are they ever used later on. I especially agree with the subjects of English and foreign languages, as they help people to communicate, and are used in our day-to-day lives.
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Posted 9/15/14

Zeboim wrote:

Yes, it matters. Knowledge is power, and a degree opens many doors for employment opportunities. Even if you don't use what you've learned, it never could be a bad thing to say you tried this and I'm sure this or that wasn't for me.


Also I agreed, most public High Schools still employ the track system. Those the system thinks are destined for greatness (rich) are often placed in college preparatory tracks while assumed ne'er'do'ell's (the poor, those in foster care, have behavioral issues, etc) are placed in food service and simple basic grammar and arithmetic, use different books in mainstream classes, etc, if not simply as a means of disposing of them in a category or 'box. ' The effect is that when they go to college, they are unprepared for it, and they end up working a factory job or fast food. There are many critics of this, not just lil ol' me, and I wont go further into it but I'll provide a link"

news.stanford.edu/pr/94/940302Arc4396.html


I'll see your article and raise you my own article in the form of a forum post!

Seriously though, I read your linked article and it is interesting, but I have to say it doesn't really fit my own experience with the education system. As far as I saw, the kids that wanted to learn ended up in the so-called "advanced" classes (I'll get to *that* later). The kids in the normal classes were there because that's where they fit in; they would have drowned in the advanced classes, such as they were.

Let me just give a little background here before going on. I was a terrible student, at least with regards to doing homework or studying; I would just read the textbook during classes and pay attention to the teacher until they bored me by not covering new material (sadly, the latter was an issue in even the "advanced" classes).

Despite my being a terrible student, I was always in the advanced classes because putting me in the normal classes was simply too ridiculous, likewise for my twin. Well, it was tried with French class, and within the first two weeks of class the teacher asked me if I'd transfer to the advanced class because it would be demoralizing to the other students if I stayed. Note, it was tried because my grades dropped as the weighting of homework increased.

Another funny story, my brother actually had a social studies teacher tell him that he hated him because he would score so much better without trying than hardworking, average students like the teacher had been. He just couldn't win with that guy; when he didn't do his homework, he got screwed, and when he did it, the guy complained (literally) about him turning a book report into a college thesis.

Also, we'd always be pulled into school math competitions, despite being lousy students. I guess the school didn't mind making use of our capabilities to make them look good, while at the same time giving us crap grades for not doing homework. One might wonder how much they deserved to benefit from us doing that for them, but nevermind that.

Ok, that's enough ego stroking, though I'm honestly just trying to give an idea of how things were for us and why I also feel the education system is flawed.

Anyway, as mentioned in the article, there is generally not tracking for English or social studies classes, so I ended up in those normal classes throughout most of my school career with the exception of one or two AP courses that I took for history in high school. As a result, I had plenty of opportunities to observe the average student, and I have to say I wasn't very impressed.

When tests were passed around the room in those classes I saw people scoring in the 30s or lower on tests on which I scored in the high 90s or aced without studying. Even ignoring those outliers, there was a fairly clear gap in capabilities so far as I could tell.

I feel that raises a question, which is what's the excuse for students doing so much more poorly than my brother and I when we're in the same classes?

Next, my opinion on education reform: the track system needs to be reformed, to have more tracks and to be more flexible.

I feel that the schools I went to growing up failed to provide me with the education they should have due to the need to educate my "peers" that did not pick up on their lessons as quickly. When I say my peers, I am referring to, and this is the sad part, the other students in the *advanced* classes.

How advanced were these students? In 11th grade English, the students that were in all my advanced classes were stumbling over Moby Dick and The Crucible when asked to read aloud. The funny thing is, *I* was the one with the speech defect, they just couldn't read; I had no troubles with the task. Neither of those works are particularly difficult reads, either.

What I am getting at is, the students in the same track as I were still far below my capabilities in English. I'm fairly certain most of them were also far below in other capabilities as well, other than, of course, completing homework; they were good little worker bees, I'll give them that. So is it the tracking that's to blame, or the students?

My opinion is that we need to reform the track system, but not by doing away with it. It needs to become a pyramid - the quickest learners at the top, the slowest at the bottom, you get the picture. It should always be an option to test into different tracks, though, and that should be standardized. Homework should not be factored into grading, because it is really just busy work once you understand the material, and some of us don't need to waste our time with that.

Anyway, I apologize for the somewhat disorganized nature of the post, as well as the length; I was trying to get these thoughts down quickly so I could move to something more pleasant and didn't bother to edit this in much detail.
Posted 9/15/14 , edited 9/15/14

vpatel62 wrote:



Stay in school kids, go to college but don't major in stupid things like art history or music. Go into one of the STEM fields and you'll be fine in the long run.



Lots of people don't want to do STEM. People telling them to go into something they don't want. People should major in whatever they want. That's what works best.

Sogno- 
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Posted 9/15/14
i always say yes to education. i think it's highly important.


nemoskull wrote:

i really cant see spending 4 year of my life in school, for a chance at a job.


well i can't argue that either
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Posted 9/15/14
High-school is a babysitting service in my opinion. The only worth while things it teaches are dealing with a repetitive job and how to read (can teach good work ethic too, but it certainly didn't for me) The problem is no student cares about high-school and if you do/did you are wasting your time. If you are going to go to college then make sure you can read and have basic math skills and everything else is taught in college no matter what major you are looking for if you have good professors. I recommend using high-school to find what you are interested in and choose a major in college based on that, for me it was languages and I chose international business, but other than that just have fun and find people with similar interests...
Posted 9/15/14 , edited 9/15/14

alpacapocalypse6 wrote:

You're starting to sound like a damn communist.


I lol'd so hard you have no idea.
eiboog 
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Posted 9/15/14 , edited 9/15/14
It really depends on what you want to do I suppose. If someone decides they are going to pursue an "easier" major and earn a sub par GPA then maybe it wouldn't be worth it, but honestly I don't think I really have the answer. STEM does have its benefits, but I can respect wanting to do something else unrelated.
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Posted 9/15/14

eiboog wrote:

It really depends on what you want to do I suppose. If someone decides they are going to pursue an "easier" major and earn a sub par GPA then maybe it wouldn't be worth it, but honestly I don't think I really have the answer. STEM does have its benefits, but I can respect wanting to do something else unrelated.


Hey, someone's got to study English so they can teach the kids to read... oh, who am I kidding, I've seen how effective they are at that. Can't teach people something they don't want to learn, and most kids look at books like they're poisonous creatures they don't want to touch, much less consume. Poisonous, not venemous, thank you for the clarification, Sabagebu!

Seriously, though, don't get into something like programming if you aren't actually interested, you'll be miserable. Also, you'll quite possibly end up being useless and hated by your coworkers for being so. I'm assuming most STEM professions are the same in that regard.

On the other hand, seriously consider what you're going to get from your degree before you start paying for it, that stuff is expensive, unless perhaps you get a nice scholarship.
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Posted 9/15/14
An education is always worth it if you decide to follow that path or it's needed for a job you want. Or go learn a trade, like welding we need more skilled tradesmen more than ever. Everyone wants the white collar job, be skilled in a trade like welding and you can make a good living, up to 6 figures when you're more experienced.
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36 / M / Denver
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Posted 9/15/14
First you have to understand that college in western society (or certainly America at least) is a business. This business model has five priorities.

1. To get as many people as possible.
2. To make them pay as much as possible.
3. To make them stay as long as possible.
4. To prepare them for their field in most cases (this fails more often than you'd like to think), BUT, this rule does not preclude #3. Most if not all programs have extra fluff.
5. To make sure as many other universities are on the exact same page as you are.

If this were the baby boomer generation, you could work part time at a summer job and pay a YEAR'S tuition at a public university of your choice. That was back in 1978. Think about that for a bit. Let me ask any of you - are your parents over 50? Did they hammer you to go to college? This is why. They were the last generation able to do this.

We are also not taught self-education as a priority in our culture, because that would rail against the five priorities. It's far easier to go do a program someone else came up with. Nothing wrong with that, but that "someone else" in today's world usually has those five priorities.

Having said all that, there are some jobs you can't avoid it. Lawyer, doctor, technical fields that require equipment you would never be able to afford. There are, however, a LOT of fields that don't require college, if you have any sort of drive or discipline at all.
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Posted 9/15/14
I try to get as much out of it as I can, but being taught my whole life that my grades speak more than my intelligence does, it's not going so well.
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Posted 9/15/14

BLACKOUTMK2 wrote:

Honestly, even with school a lot of people are idiots. Without it we'd probably see those people reduced to splashing around in their own saliva, giggling uncontrollably... at age 40.


i see you and i think the same way...
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Posted 9/15/14
i think A LOT of people here are SERIOUSLY misguided on what it means to be in school, what education can do for you, and what you can get out of it...going to college isnt about getting a job anymore. Those are the same ideals your parents were brought up in because back in their day that was the most probable and expected route for an ordinary citizen..nowadays, altough education hasnt changed and has become mostly outdated and overall just terrible for learning anything of actual value, there are still MANY higher learning institutions that you should go to and take advantage of because they offer more than just "oh i have a degree, time to work 9 to 5"...its more about what you learn, who you meet, and your overall experience during those 4 years of college; it is more of like your last stage of cognitive development. This generation...our generation...are going to college to gain the knowledge to start their own businesses and pursue the things they love.

Let me also clear some misconceptions i read...
- The math they teach you is suppose to help you <understand> the logical processes of mathematics...Schools just do a terrible job at teaching it and most teachers dont even realize thats what they are suppose to do..help their students UNDERSTAND the fundamentals of math. Only once i started coding did i finally understand how useful it was to have an understanding of math logic.
- public high schools are shit...believe it or not, some private high schools (especially those with great sports programs) have plunged into the future of learning, and the kids are responding well! the change the new generation needs...i went to both private and public..and continutation and adult school while in high school and the only time i ever got good education was in college...so sometimes it doesnt even matter and you have to wait for college to actually enjoy learning.
- school doesnt have the responsibility to teach you practical things like how to wipe your ass..that is the job of your parents..for some that have broken families or no parents at all, then you should talk to your teachers...school becomes a great experience if you have a good student relation with your teacher..and you will get the help you want AND need.

the way everyone here talks is as if you are all freshman in high school...but you are all older than me, my age, or slightly younger than me...i would like someone to respond to this and hear a differing opinion..or maybe tell me im wrong and an asshole...anything would be appreciated haha
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Posted 9/15/14
College >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything

education is the most important thing you could get
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