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Running out of anime masterpieces?
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21 / M / Shiganshina District
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Posted 9/20/14 , edited 9/20/14
Everyone has their opinion on a masterpiece but I tend to consider anime that executes it's philosophy well to be masterpieces.

On the bases of the final 4 episodes, I consider Fate/Zero to be a masterpiece

Another masterpiece would be Psycho-Pass. Psycho-Pass is more consistent than Fate/Zero on quality episodes.

Another one would be Code Geass. Code Geass is more inconsistent than Fate/Zero but has probably the best ending to any anime.


Basically, give Code Geass, Psycho-Pass, Fate/Zero and Ping Pong-The Animation a try
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27 / M / Seattle
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Posted 9/20/14
I am terrible at the masterpiece game because I am an entertainment whore...I am entertained easily. So while these may not be "masterpieces" I would recommend any of these anime to anyone to watch:

Elfen Lied
Future Diary
Steins; Gate
Hajime No Ippo
Clannad + Clannad After Story
Little Busters

Those are my absolute favorites and I think they are worth looking into if you haven't seen them.
Posted 9/20/14

MartianMage wrote:

Winning prestigious awards... keyword prestigious. These awards are there and recognized for a reason. If we can't even trust these institutions to place proper critics then there would be no masterpieces anymore. Just personal favorites.

And the definition is not flimsy. It is what it is. As I've said if you can't even agree to this definition then you might as well erase the word "masterpiece" from your dictionary and replace it with favorites.


Put in a spoiler for space.

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28 / M / NY
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Posted 9/20/14

MartianMage wrote:


seekerperson7 wrote:


MartianMage wrote:

Sure you can make a subjective list of masterpieces based on your own criteria but it doesn't make it impossible to make a list of objective masterpieces.

You simply need to follow the very definition of the word...

For example:

user A lists Girls und Panzer as a masterpiece... this is subjective because it only meets his own criteria
user B lists Madoka Magica as a masterpiece... this is objective because it meets the very definition of the word which is:

Masterpiece in modern use refers to a creation that has been given much critical praise, especially one that is considered the greatest work of a person's career or to a work of outstanding creativity, skill, or workmanship.


How much is "much critical praise" and what is required to be considered a critic? How do you judge the greatness of a work or measure creativity? How do you measure skill and workmanship? I know intuitively that X takes more skill than Y, but is intuition enough? Isn't that back to subjectivity? Same thing with workmanship.

And what if these critics were to say that something like Girls und Panzer as is can be considered a masterpiece? Or any other show for that matter. Is the definition purely subject to the whims of these "critics"? If so, then I am eagerly interested in how I may join this arcane sect.

To me, even the objective definition sounds somewhat flimsy.


Winning prestigious awards... keyword prestigious. These awards are there and recognized for a reason. If we can't even trust these institutions to place proper critics then there would be no masterpieces anymore. Just personal favorites.

And the definition is not flimsy. It is what it is. As I've said if you can't even agree to this definition then you might as well erase the word "masterpiece" from your dictionary and replace it with favorites.


http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2013-03-24/wolf-children-sao-kuroko-basketball-win-tokyo-anime-awards

Sword Art Online is a masterpiece by this "objective" definition. I like SAO and think it is very good, but not a masterpiece. I also do not think Madoka is a masterpiece, though I think it is well done for what it is trying to be.
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Posted 9/20/14

sonic720 wrote:http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2013-03-24/wolf-children-sao-kuroko-basketball-win-tokyo-anime-awards

Sword Art Online is a masterpiece by this "objective" definition. I like SAO and think it is very good, but not a masterpiece. I also do not think Madoka is a masterpiece, though I think it is well done for what it is trying to be.

I personally think SAO isn't also a masterpiece but the keyword here is "personally"

To be objective means to be impartial about things. To be unbiased. And whether you and I don't like it or not. SAO is a masterpiece simply by going with the objective definition of the word masterpiece.
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33 / M / Seattle
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Posted 9/20/14
Well, the rate masterpieces are coming out are down, but don't forget that more anime shows are coming out than ever before. It used to be that a season consisted of around 30 or so shows, and now it is closer to 50. That said, while they are still coming out. There's Terror in Resonance, Attack on Titan, Psycho-Pass, Kids on the Slope, and Kokoro Connect that I consider to be masterpieces that came out recently, as well as several other shows that are borderline masterpieces.
xxJing 
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Posted 9/20/14

MartianMage wrote:


sonic720 wrote:http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2013-03-24/wolf-children-sao-kuroko-basketball-win-tokyo-anime-awards

Sword Art Online is a masterpiece by this "objective" definition. I like SAO and think it is very good, but not a masterpiece. I also do not think Madoka is a masterpiece, though I think it is well done for what it is trying to be.

I personally think SAO isn't also a masterpiece but the keyword here is "personally"

To be objective means to be impartial about things. To be unbiased. And whether you and I don't like it or not. SAO is a masterpiece simply by going with the objective definition of the word masterpiece.


I would really like to be able to dive into the brains of hardcore Sword Art Online fans. Because while I enjoy watching SAO, to me it is extremely cheesy and deserves no more praise than as a simple Saturday morning cartoon show. I read the first Light Novel before I watched the series, and that didn't really impress me either. It doesn't do anything revolutionary with romance, action, adventure, nor even with the mmo setting. If anything Kawahara should be winning awards for Accel World, as much as I don't like some of the characters in that, overall it is a much more unique and better executed piece of work. Hell it has a short and fat protagonist who goes through crap loads of character development, it's pretty much the ONLY anime series to have that.

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38 / M / Charlotte, NC
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Posted 9/20/14
This just became yet another Everyone List Their Favorite Anime thread. Was it useful?
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28 / M / NY
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Posted 9/20/14

MartianMage wrote:
I personally think SAO isn't also a masterpiece but the keyword here is "personally"

To be objective means to be impartial about things. To be unbiased. And whether you and I don't like it or not. SAO is a masterpiece simply by going with the objective definition of the word masterpiece.


I would say what makes something "a work of outstanding artistry, skill, or workmanship" is subjective, and ultimately biased, despite the objective fact the work won an award and garnered some critical praise. This is because measuring the artistry, skill, and workmanship is an imperfect process subject to the bias of the critic and the body issuing the awards. In that way, I find the definition of masterpiece to also be a bit open to interpretation on what qualifies as making a work outstanding.

There is no scientific method to measuring the quality of one work over another, and most awards seem more in tune with popularity than anything else. Ultimately the inherent quality of the work is still subjective to each individual who consumes it, despite the objective fact the work is recognized by prestigious groups. Though, as per the definition you stated both of these anime would technically be considered masterpieces. However, I fail to see much value in that label as far as personal recommendations and tastes are concerned.

This thread raises the question "are masterpieces in anime running out?" but it does not really define what a masterpiece in anime looks like. If we use the definition you posed, then they are certainly not running out, as they hand out awards and praise each year. In that respect, there has been no decline in masterpieces. However, I think the OP was more asking, not about masterpieces as defined in the dictionary, but what one personally would find to be really compelling. The answer to the question in that case is it will depend on the individual and his/her standards and taste in anime. For some, personal masterpieces may be on the decline, for others it may be increasing, and yet for others it may be staying relatively the same.


im looking for any anime that really really meant something to you, and is high class, but maybe its not as well known? old shows new shows who cares! tis not a debate just help some fellow anime fans in their quest to watch them all!


Based on this wording it seems like the OP just wants us to share what shows we personally find very appealing, and maybe explain why we do as well, in the hopes others will find new compelling shows to watch. Whether or not the anime has received critical recognition or awards does not seem to matter as much as if you personally enjoy it or not as per what the OP is intending, at least as I understand.
Posted 9/20/14
same people in the studio maaaaaaaaaaaaan
scye27 
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31 / F / US
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Posted 9/20/14
There are a few that I personally found to be top quality, but may not be as well known.

Kids on the Slope
- It may be because I love jazz. It may be because I've never seen an anime set in the 1960s. It may have been the feeling I got when watching as if I could jump right into the story. Whatever it was. This show deserves more recognition than what it got.

From the New World - There was something about this show. There were ideas, themes, and environments I had not seen in other animes before. Though it was dark, even depressing at times, the show pulled me in.
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Posted 9/20/14
I for one agree with you on Monster. One of my favorite anime I watched it more then 5 times and stlll makes me as excited from the first time I watched it.
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34 / M
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Posted 9/20/14 , edited 9/20/14

sonic720 wrote:I would say what makes something "a work of outstanding artistry, skill, or workmanship" is subjective, and ultimately biased, despite the objective fact the work won an award and garnered some critical praise. This is because measuring the artistry, skill, and workmanship is an imperfect process subject to the bias of the critic and the body issuing the awards. In that way, I find the definition of masterpiece to also be a bit open to interpretation on what qualifies as making a work outstanding.

There is no scientific method to measuring the quality of one work over another, and most awards seem more in tune with popularity than anything else. Ultimately the inherent quality of the work is still subjective to each individual who consumes it, despite the objective fact the work is recognized by prestigious groups. Though, as per the definition you stated both of these anime would technically be considered masterpieces. However, I fail to see much value in that label as far as personal recommendations and tastes are concerned.

This thread raises the question "are masterpieces in anime running out?" but it does not really define what a masterpiece in anime looks like. If we use the definition you posed, then they are certainly not running out, as they hand out awards and praise each year. In that respect, there has been no decline in masterpieces. However, I think the OP was more asking, not about masterpieces as defined in the dictionary, but what one personally would find to be really compelling. The answer to the question in that case is it will depend on the individual and his/her standards and taste in anime. For some, personal masterpieces may be on the decline, for others it may be increasing, and yet for others it may be staying relatively the same.


im looking for any anime that really really meant something to you, and is high class, but maybe its not as well known? old shows new shows who cares! tis not a debate just help some fellow anime fans in their quest to watch them all!


Based on this wording it seems like the OP just wants us to share what shows we personally find very appealing, and maybe explain why we do as well, in the hopes others will find new compelling shows to watch. Whether or not the anime has received critical recognition or awards does not seem to matter as much as if you personally enjoy it or not as per what the OP is intending, at least as I understand.

There's no doubt that the selection process itself is done by humans and being a human process it is ultimately subjective but this is a process that we need to respect. As I've said if we don't respect these prestigious institutions to do their jobs then we might as well discard the word "masterpiece" from the dictionary and we might as well refer to all current masterpieces as "favorites by the masses."

The fact that we insist on maintaining the word "masterpiece" in the dictionary despite it's very human process in the selection means that we can be objective about this.

Oh and I'm not gonna dispute what the OP wants... if you notice my first post comes after the poster who's declaring that there's no such thing as a true masterpiece since it's all subjective. I'm merely responding to show that we can objectively name masterpieces based on the words objective definition.
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28 / M / NY
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Posted 9/20/14 , edited 9/20/14

MartianMage wrote:
I'm merely responding to show that we can objectively name masterpieces based on the words objective definition.


Sure, I don't disagree here. It would not be too difficult to make a list of anime or other works that fall into this category based on that definition. Go to say IMDb, check for the star rating, reviews, and awards, then categorize accordingly. However, the label of masterpiece in and of itself does not really tell me if I will enjoy the anime, but rather that it has caught the attention of respected members of the anime community. That they thought it has some unique value above other anime of its time.

What I would find more valuable than the label of masterpiece is the thought process that went into the selection of the anime for the award over others. What criteria was used to determine its outstanding qualities? Basically, to gain an understanding of why it is considered a masterpiece and how they reached that consensus. The award tells me they think it is good but not necessarily why, and I'd much rather know why than know it is award winning. So, yeah, I agree the label itself is objective, but its value to me is not much absent from a deeper understanding of why it received said label. In other words, what makes it special or valuable can't be summed up by simply the word masterpiece, so alone that word has little value outside of more context.
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Posted 9/20/14 , edited 9/20/14
I'm not going to say any show I've watched is a masterpiece (because the original material is almost always better and my opinion doesn't matter) but here's a list of things I liked:
Fruits Basket Favorite of all time, though in order to understand why I love it so much, you must read the manga. Good drama, romance and comedy in one.
Soul Eater I'd like to say it's the best shounen out there. But what do I know, I usually avoid most shounen.
FMA and FMA:B in that order (I still haven't finished FMA:B though :3)
Steins;Gate Come on, guys. TIME TRAVEL! EL PSY CONGROO
Madoka Magica Who doesn't love some magical girl deconstruction?
Nagi no Asukara Really beautiful animation, and a nice coming of age story. It also touches on discrimation and does have a hell of a lot of very cute romance.
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