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Post Reply Cliche vs Unique
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Posted 9/20/14 , edited 9/20/14

Siawo wrote:

Cliche (Luffy)
Unique (Yusuke)


I agree with the overarching argument you're trying to make here, that the market is not in fact so saturated with unexplored, rehashed cliches that the art has become stagnant, but Yusuke Urameshi is not especially unique. Neither is Yuyu Hakusho in general, for that matter. They're enjoyable, but they're not unique.

I think that really gets to the heart of the matter: cliches are cliche for a reason, and that reason is that people enjoy them enough to want them to be repeated. The trick is to deliver cliches in a new or interesting way, to experiment with them a bit while avoiding abandoning the core idea completely. It's alright for a work to use cliches, for it to not be unique or groundbreaking, but there needs to at least be some effort to explore and modify the cliches people love. And that's happening throughout the industry all the time.
Posted 9/20/14
what's the difference? these words are more or less over used and linked
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Posted 9/20/14
Doesn't matter to me whether it's cliche or unique. As long as they keep producing both there's nothing to complain about. I like the variety and would like to keep it that way.
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Posted 9/20/14
I want a borderline in my anime.
LokiLB 
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Posted 9/20/14
I don't think unique vs cliche is really what I care about. Tragedies aren't anything new. The Greeks had those down over two thousand years ago. I actually like sad and bitter sweet endings, with many of my favorite anime ending in that manner. I also like shows that have happy endings and even a few shows with endings that aren't really sad, happy, or an ending at all (Baccano comes to mind for that last one).
Unique probably also isn't the right word. Unique implies there are no others like that. Having no similar story existing is sort of unlikely.

What I care about more is do I enjoy the plot, the characters, and other aspects of the show? Sometimes I prefer less common options. Log Horizon for example has a main character (Shiroe) who is a strategic support character and a graduate student. I haven't watched many anime with a graduate student as the main character, and I like that. I also like realistically smart characters and not ones that 'just as planned' their ways out of things using science/intelligence as another form of magic.
On the other hand, I really enjoy Yu Yu Hakusho and like Yusuke as a character. He's a book dumb brawler, exact opposite of Shiroe, and a middle schooler but I still like him. I also like Sailor Moon, which has a fairly dense main character and focuses a good bit on romance, and I generally hate romance.

So, I just take each show for what it is. Some shows can be fairly formulaic for the genre and I'll still like them, while some can be completely different and I'll hate them; or vice versa. It really just depends on how well the story uses what it has.
Posted 9/20/14
Cliches were everywhere in anime.
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Posted 9/20/14

Zeta-Nu wrote:

Cliches were everywhere in anime.


We have good cliches and horrible one...right?
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Posted 9/20/14 , edited 9/20/14
We're at a point where almost every idea has been taken. It's now no longer about who creates the most original idea, but rather who does it best.

We'll never see any original ideas within the industry unless you can take away the monetary aspect of it. Why take incredible risks in creating something new that may or may not be well received when you can ride off of the idea of someone else?
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Posted 9/20/14

severticas wrote:

what's the difference? these words are more or less over used and linked


A cliche is an idea that is typically seen, like a trope or stereotype, whereas a unique idea is something atypical and new.
Posted 9/21/14

Chopsuey9444 wrote:


severticas wrote:

what's the difference? these words are more or less over used and linked


A cliche is an idea that is typically seen, like a trope or stereotype, whereas a unique idea is something atypical and new.


hah
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Posted 9/21/14
The bottom line is this: the vast VAST majority of the public has extremely narrow, predictable and nearly identical expectations out of entertainment and will always prefer the familiar rather than the unusual. While at the same time insisting otherwise, and everyone thinks they're the exception to the rule.
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Posted 9/21/14 , edited 9/21/14

PeripheralVisionary wrote:
You're forgetting creators are people too. Creators like happy endings too. This combined with an overall desire to please the fanbase makes happy endings so popular. That and most works are a bit wish fulfillment.
Ofc, some authors are sadistic and go for sad endings. Like Bokurano.

Bad endings should go to appropriate works; happy ends to happy works. If there is anything the fanbase hates, it's the feeling of getting screwed over. Forcing a bad ending isn't a good thing. otherwise, it'll turn into a shaggy dog story.

Example: You cannot give Berserk a perfectly happy ending. Only a satisfying one.


Good points.

Let's assume here that we are talking about creators who aren't interested in wish fulfillment and are more grounded to portraying themes of reality in anime/manga.

In that sense, happy/sad works don't need to rely on being appropriate if the creator calls for it. Good people don't always get the good things they deserve.

However I would only consider this a bad ending if it does not fit into themes the creator is portraying(you could have a happy story with regret as an independent theme and ends up playing a part at the ending) or if the creator has no foreshadowing to the event.

Like you said, a bad ending should not come out from nowhere.

For an example, your MC betrays one of the more developed characters which causes him to be physically tortured. In the end, the MC dies in the hands of said character as payback.

We see this concept used a lot on heroes turned villain but when it happens to the main character, there is a sudden backlash by the average fan.
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Posted 9/21/14 , edited 9/21/14
Don't give a damn.

There are great cliched series, there are worthless cliched series.
There are great unique series, there are worthless unique series.

It all depends on how they're executed.
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Posted 9/21/14
Everyone has their own preferences and I find that fans of a particular type of story are more likely to notice the differences in execution than people who weren't interested in that kind of story in the first place. It can be frustrating when someone says that a certain genre is "all the same" since fans of the genre know they are wrong (and they probably wouldn't like it if people said the same about what they like). I suppose it could be that some people become a fan of a certain genre because they're able to see those differences in the first place.

Personally, I tend to focus on characters and enjoy stories that grow from the personalities of their characters. I often enjoy slice of life, episodic and "cute girls doing cute things" types of stories because they tend to be more interested in character development and interaction. I do still like some stories that focus on events but I find it quite frustrating when people act out of character to drive a story along.

To some people, Love Lab, Yuyushiki and Hidamari Sketch might all seem the same but to me they're very different experiences and I get something out of each. Even within those shows individual episodes can provide a different kind of experience while to some they all seem the same.

I suppose I tend to prefer "happy" stories. I do like quite a lot of stories where bad things happen but I'm more likely to enjoy them if the characters learn something and/or manage to end up happier. I'll probably lose interest quickly if the characters keep being stupid and making things worse for themselves without realising that they're the problem. On the other hand, I'd probably still enjoy a show if the characters grow and learn but are unable to really stop bad things from happening. As others have said though, it mostly depends on the execution. As long as the story makes me care about the characters and the characters act consistently then I'm far more likely to enjoy the show.

It's possible that it's more difficult to write a compelling "evil" character, villains do tend to be more "simple" (though sometimes that works well for the story). If a character is just totally evil then they tend to be less interesting and attempts to try and make a villain sympathetic can easily ring hollow. Personally I can't think of any show I like that consists of horrible people being horrible to each other so that can be an issue for some (though I think it's a matter of taste rather than quality). Having a character change sides can also be difficult to write convincingly, if you make it too obvious then it's less likely to be interesting and if you don't give enough clues then it'll seem to be out of character and coming from nowhere. A particularly well written story will be able to surprise you and have the surprise make sense in retrospect (though some may be more surprised than others).

As for the "experience vs escapism" point, I think both work together. Escapism is basically something you can't experience in real life and anime lets you explore those experiences. Of course, there are other reasons for watching anime too.
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Posted 9/21/14

TsunLemon wrote:

Don't give a damn.

There are great cliched series, there are worthless cliched series.
There are great unique series, there are worthless unique series.

It all depends on how they're executed.



Thanks.
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