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Gender inequality in Anime?
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Posted 10/1/14

AmazingStef wrote:


qualeshia3Wasn't sure to mention Ghost in Shell or Black Lagoon? Oh well I mentioned it.


Well... If you want to be nitpicky Makoto Kusanagi is certainly sexualised, but that's actually an aspect of her personality. She's a bi-sexual showoff.

Technically the protagonist of Black Lagoon is a guy I guess, but he's more there to be the "normal" point of view character, all the characters moving the plot are women. It's also really light on fanservice: in fact it goes completely the other way since it shows that treating women as merchandise is REALLY friggin' awful.



Yeah the Major is a bit of a slut but that doesn't even dent her character a single bit. She knows it. She'll still take down any terrorist. Pretty much a female James Bond.
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Posted 10/1/14


Annie would have been the other option.
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Posted 10/1/14

AmazingStef wrote:


qualeshia3Wasn't sure to mention Ghost in Shell or Black Lagoon? Oh well I mentioned it.


Well... If you want to be nitpicky Makoto Kusanagi is certainly sexualised, but that's actually an aspect of her personality. She's a bi-sexual showoff.

Technically the protagonist of Black Lagoon is a guy I guess, but he's more there to be the "normal" point of view character, all the characters moving the plot are women. It's also really light on fanservice: in fact it goes completely the other way since it shows that treating women as merchandise is REALLY friggin' awful.



I used those shows mainly for the lack of wearing miniskirts.
Posted 10/1/14
If you're talking about the fanservice, then I hate to say it, but there's always going to be some type of fanservice in anime.

If you're talking about the amount of female characters... I think the amount is pretty much equal.
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Posted 10/1/14 , edited 10/1/14

MysticGonYeah the Major is a bit of a slut but that doesn't even dent her character a single bit. She knows it. She'll still take down any terrorist. Pretty much a female James Bond.


If anything it adds to the awesomeness of her character character, she owns her sexuality in a way you almost never see in any kind of media.

Upskirt shots and sexy suits of armor? So common we barely notice it. Admitting girls do in fact get horny, or even worse having a female character who's not a virgin? ... Yeah.


qualeshia3I used those shows mainly for the lack of wearing miniskirts.


Oh I know, I WAS being nitpicky for fun. Sorry if it came across as hostile in any way.

I spent a bit too much time in some of the more... aware parts of the net. I don't regret it at all as I learned a lot but it came with the side effect of unconsciously picking apart everything I watch.

It's actually a pretty fun exercise for the most part. Makes something like SAO hard to watch though, it lays it on a bit too thick with the male power fantasy.
Le_Dom 
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Posted 10/1/14

qualeshia3 wrote:




Will you watch an anime with moe looking anime characters who have good/realistic personality and goals?

I wonder.


When I say I don't mind, what I really mean is that I wouldn't say it's worth complaining about, as long as the main appeal of the character isn't to be moe.

As for your question, well yeah I would if the main plot is actually decent.

Sorry, but I don't get what you're trying to get at with your question.
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Posted 10/1/14 , edited 10/1/14



I got a tad bit distracted at the end. I just always wondered, if people would want a cute moe looking character that has a good personality/not a moeblob. Like how people mention looks can be deceiving when describing a person. The character looks moe but does not act like a moeblob and all.

Sorry for not explaining properly. I was a bit curious about my own comment and wondered if it could be done correctly.
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Posted 10/1/14 , edited 10/2/14
Preamble: I don't believe this is a subjective topic, but I also don't think my opinions are leveled up to facts.

So... these are my opinions. Everything, including the last couple paragraphs on critical theory.

I'm also not too keen on getting involved in this discussion, but if the following is of interest to anyone awesome.


Couple things from looking through what's been posted.

First, if you're going to look at the objectification of women in anime, it makes sense to ignore the genres where it isn't an issue. If you have to go to certain genres just to escape the issue that alone means it's worth talking about.

    Similarly, exceptions to the rule are not sufficient alone to disprove the rule itself.

Second, "It's alright to objectify women because men are just as objectified" is not a good argument. Try using it for something else, "It's alright if we murder foreigners because foreigners murder us right back." It's crap logic.

    The obvious solution should be for both sides to quit it, not for both sides to keep at it.

Third, objectification and idealization are different. Idealization involves paragons to emulate or learn from (not automatically good, but not automatically bad either). Objectification is the use of a portrayal by another "group".

(Just a reminder, this is still what I think not what I know.)

    Edward Cullen and the werewolf kid from Twilight are examples of objectified males. While Harry Potter is full of idealizations: characters who rank highly in honor, integrity, strong family values and friendship, etc..

This is how a female character can still be sexy without being objectified; Motoko Kusanagi from Ghost in the Shell is an idealized character, but she isn't objectified despite being both incredibly attractive and emotionally vulnerable.

It's a pretty impressive balancing act Mamoru Oshii pulled off when adapting the original manga.

Whether its alright for objectification to occur when aimed at an exclusive demographic (for example, Twilight is aimed at female readers while Harry Potter is aimed at both genders) is an interesting question that I am perplexed by.

Since I'm quite fond of my Strike Witches and Dog Days and To-Love Rus. And porn. If there's a difference.

So I think my two stances would be:

1) Objectification in a work partially aimed at people who'd identify with the objectified party shouldn't happen.
2) BAD IDEALIZATIONS. "You should be like this" when proffering an objectifying paragon is bull----.


qualeshia3 wrote:

I always wondered will people still enjoy their favorite shounen anime, if the male main character was a girl.

Have you guy met Erena Jaeger?


I'd probably like it more than the version we've got.

Especially if Erena and Mikasa plant some lilies but that's just me.


Kikusui10 wrote:

If anyone know of any good animes with strong female lead characters hit me up.

I'd say relevant works by Satoshi Kon, Hayao Miyazaki and Mamoru Hosoda, as well as:

Just a reminder, the following is still in opinion territory:

*One way series can "enforce" objectification is by punishing characters who "defy" it. For example I bet we're all familiar with the trope where an anime will isolate a series of female characters without any acknowledged peer male relations (K-On, most all idol anime, other CGDCTs) or will have a token male avatar in the mix (a harem). Now if a girl from said series were to defy this restriction it's highly probable the story will incinerate that situation down around her ears.

If discussing Shakespeare at this point you might hear the commentary "She didn't know/understand the genre she was in." You'll sometimes hear characters described as acting as though they were in a comedy in a tragedy, or vise versa. It's a similar idea. But in terms of Fate/Zero specifically it burns all its characters evenly, they're all presented as flawed human beings that horrible things are fated to happen to and I don't think it lays any objectifying tracks while doing so.

This can actually be an interesting line of critical inquiry outside gender roles too, looking at whether or not there's a "safe zone" within a story where characters are protected. It's a way that fiction can implicitly sanction or penalize certain behavior. Finding that line, whether it's not being nice to your friends in Winnie the Pooh or defying God in the Bible, can lead to interesting meta reveals. It's always neat seeing how stories can implicitly push an idea, good or bad.

(Those are actually more... explicit examples... for the sake of indisputability.)

Part of what Fate/Zero does is abolish the safe zone.
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Posted 10/1/14
Depends on the genre and target audience. There are shoujo and shounen and everything else. A lot of factors are involved with your perception. But there is a heavy lean towards more shounen type shows because of the audience.
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Posted 10/1/14
I'm a pretty big feminist dude, myself, and I actually think there's a ton of anime out there that's incredibly empowering to women. As I am not a woman myself, I might be overstepping my bounds here, but I would honestly say women are portrayed better in most anime than they are traditional Hollywood movies, or even big Western video games. I mean, there's at least a few shows a season that are female-driven, with strong characterization and refusal to stoop down to cheap fan service and pandering fluff. Meanwhile, most Hollywood movies and Western games (not all, but most,) can't even pass the freaking Bechdel test.

So yeah. I think there are numerous examples of anime with good female characterization.
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Posted 10/1/14
i really dont see why people cry over gender equality, both genders have it hard is certain aspects of life.
OT: look how men are portaid in shojo? no one wants to emotionally attach them self's to a imaginary ugly person so why shouldn't they make beautiful sparkling men and smexy babes?

this reminds me of why my friends (and secretly me) disliked accel world so much, the MC was a 2 foot tall wombat of a man.....
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Posted 10/1/14

Rito2Ru wrote:

Depends on the genre and target audience. There are shoujo and shounen and everything else. A lot of factors are involved with your perception. But there is a heavy lean towards more shounen type shows because of the audience.


Oh man, that's a great point to bring up!

What makes the issue worse is the way the industry is set up, most anime we watch are basically late night infomercials for incredibly overpriced blu-rays and merchandise. So anime productions pander to the kind of adult who has a lot of disposable income and will stay up late at night to watch cartoons. Such a person will likely be male and lonely. It's not universal of course but they're the largest demograhic.

Log Horizon is basically a saturday morning cartoon, and it has basically zero fanservice.
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Posted 10/1/14
I'd much prefer female heroes over male ones personally.

They are much more awesome.


And yeah, there is a certain degree of inequality when it comes to anime.
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Posted 10/1/14 , edited 10/1/14
mmmm

I think its pretty much even now adays.

but I prefer anime that has a balance of men and women characters. I avoid too much female characters in a specific title becuase of the voices , are annoying to my ears.
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Posted 10/1/14
4 pages and no mention yet of Moribito or Michiko (to Hatchin)? Or did search stop working again...
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