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Shootings in Ottawa on Parliament Hill
Iax 
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Posted 10/25/14
uh yeah we really do not have any more money to put towards health care or anything we are almost at 18 trillion dollars in debt. all our money goes to other countries or other government funded programs when your only taking in 3 trillion and spending 3.5 to 4 trillion somethings wrong with the system. prayers to the family of the slain soldier and to Sargent at arms who had to take a life
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Posted 10/25/14 , edited 10/26/14

haokun32 wrote:

I sincerely hope politicians won't be using this as an excuse to get involved with the ISIS. I haven't been keeping up with the news recently, but I think the government is blowing it out of proportions. I'm not saying that the government should take lightly, but do we even know that this was done by an organized group? as opposed to an independent radical? If it is the action of a radical then I sincerely hope that the trial will proceed as a regular criminal case, instead of as a war crime.

I think Canada (like the U.S) should mind it's own business and leave the Middle east alone. Maybe send in a few peace keepers so that the civilians don't get caught in the cross fire.

The death is tragic, but it would be even more tragic if we allow politicians to use it as an excuse to get us involved in another war.

but it's already too late for that


you're right there and if you look at the anti-democratic legislation coming down the pipe we've also lost it here at home. This was better for Harper than the Reichstag fire.


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Posted 10/25/14

ayesharocks wrote:


PhantomGundam wrote:


ayesharocks wrote:

That's just really sad. Is there any news on why he did it? You can't just do this for no reason.


According to the news, he did it because he's Muslim.


DeadlyOats wrote:

It's like Canada has lost its virginity. They've had terrorism for the first time. Seriously, though. I remember our first time. It was terrible.


Yeah. Our first time was awful. There was blood everywhere. Everything was a mess. At least Canada had it cleaner and safer.


Yes, because OBVIOUSLY being Muslim means you shoot up people, are you serious? You're blaming the religion?


I'm not blaming a religion. That's what the news is doing. You asked if there was any news about why he did it. That's why I said "according to the news."
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Posted 10/25/14 , edited 10/26/14

SpiritWolf15 wrote:


ayesharocks wrote:

That's just really sad. Is there any news on why he did it? You can't just do this for no reason.


He had pre-existing mental health issues, his recent conversion to Islam was secondary to that.


lilliputian_otaku wrote:

A high school student opened fire in the cafeteria of a high school north of Seattle, WA today. He killed one and sent four more to the hospital before killing himself. It's a shame that we have to worry about stuff like this. But, situations like these are why I can't leave my apartment without a knife or a pistol.


Maybe if the Canadian and US governments put more funding into mental health research and treatment these kinds of events would happen less frequently.


damonthegreat wrote:

i guess people are dieing to see some kinda change in this world, lel


Not funny.




Sogno- wrote:

so there really is a place above america ?? it's not just North USA??

seriously though, it's true that no country can escape terrorism, and i am very sorry for the country and especially the family of the man.


His recent conversion to Islam is more of a secondary factor. He had pre-existing mental health issues that were not properly addressed. Rather than trying to fight terrorism more of a focus and funding should be put on understanding and treating mental illness. This goes for both Canada AND the USA.


Quoted for truth

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Posted 10/25/14

DeadlyOats wrote:

It's like Canada has lost its virginity. They've had terrorism for the first time. Seriously, though. I remember our first time. It was terrible.

Well there was that October in 1970... although I guess that wasn't counted as "terrorism".
Posted 10/25/14 , edited 10/26/14

ayesharocks wrote:

Moreso our society has painted an image where a terrorist has a skin color, a language, and even now a religion. If a white man shoots a few people, barely any news. If a MUSLIM man shoots up a couple, "OH MY GOD A TERRORIST!!!!!!!! KILL HIM AND WATERBOARD"


Another thing that ads to the global dislike of Islam by the majority of non-Muslim people is also the fact that Muslims have a bad stereotype of going to non-Muslim countries (especially Europe in general) and trying to change the laws of those lands to suit them (Muslims) and force others to slowly become well, "Islamafied". Unfortunately, this is becoming a more and more common occurrence coupled with the fact that people in general notice that some Muslims refuse to assimilate into society etc., choosing instead to demand change to more Muslim-friendly lifestyles. Some in Europe are even talking about the sharp rise of anti-Semitism and blaming it on the fact that so many Muslims are living in Europe.

Not everyone of course, but the sheer number of Muslims especially in Europe is what is causing so much severe backlash, Islamaphobia and racism to allMuslims. And the perpetual state of the Middle East + Isis + major Terrorist attacks is not helping either.

In today's society especially, the one group of people that stands out as the sole group who seek to make everything suit them (laws, the way society operates, etc.) are well, Muslims.
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Posted 10/26/14 , edited 10/26/14

SoldierSangria wrote:


ayesharocks wrote:

Moreso our society has painted an image where a terrorist has a skin color, a language, and even now a religion. If a white man shoots a few people, barely any news. If a MUSLIM man shoots up a couple, "OH MY GOD A TERRORIST!!!!!!!! KILL HIM AND WATERBOARD"


Another thing that ads to the global dislike of Islam by the majority of non-Muslim people is also the fact that Muslims have a bad stereotype of going to non-Muslim countries (especially Europe in general) and trying to change the laws of those lands to suit them (Muslims) and force others to slowly become well, "Islamafied". Unfortunately, this is becoming a more and more common occurrence coupled with the fact that people in general notice that some Muslims refuse to assimilate into society etc., choosing instead to demand change to more Muslim-friendly lifestyles. Some in Europe are even talking about the sharp rise of anti-Semitism and blaming it on the fact that so many Muslims are living in Europe.

Not everyone of course, but the sheer number of Muslims especially in Europe is what is causing so much severe backlash, Islamaphobia and racism to allMuslims. And the perpetual state of the Middle East + Isis + major Terrorist attacks is not helping either.

In today's society especially, the one group of people that stands out as the sole group who seek to make everything suit them (laws, the way society operates, etc.) are well, Muslims.


9/11 notwithstanding. The vast majority of people have been killed by non-muslims. David Koresh, Timothy McViegh, The Batman shooter, the perpetrators of the thirty or so school shootings a year etc.

in a related note Africa is bigger than North America, The area with ebola is one concentrated zone smaller than Arizona. Yet people are being banned from school for visiting South Africa. That's like New Yorkers being afraid of Katrina. Did you know that compared to catching Ebola in the US, you are nine times more likely to have divorced Mickey Rooney.

Don't subscribe to the culture of fear.

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Posted 10/26/14 , edited 10/27/14

gertrelga wrote:


DeadlyOats wrote:

It's like Canada has lost its virginity. They've had terrorism for the first time. Seriously, though. I remember our first time. It was terrible.

Well there was that October in 1970... although I guess that wasn't counted as "terrorism".



I count it. Parliamentarian kidnapped and killed. mail boxes made into IEDs. War Measures Act invoked. I count it.


Posted 10/26/14 , edited 10/26/14

papagolfwhiskey wrote:

9/11 notwithstanding. The vast majority of people have been killed by non-muslims. David Koresh, Timothy McViegh, The Batman shooter, the perpetrators of the thirty or so school shootings a year etc.

in a related note Africa is bigger than North America, The area with ebola is one concentrated zone smaller than Arizona. Yet people are being banned from school for visiting South Africa. That's like New Yorkers being afraid of Katrina. Did you know that compared to catching Ebola in the US, you are nine times more likely to have divorced Mickey Rooney.

Don't subscribe to the culture of fear.



I'm not subscribed to the culture of fear. I should have mentioned that these were not my views - just the general views of people. I travel quite often, and globally and well...Unfortunately Muslims face a load of this type of discrimination and stereotyping wherever they are - especially I've noticed, in Europe where there are a load of them. Like I've said, the ones who demand the laws to be changed to suit them more etc. are the ones giving everyone else a bad name, and therefore people jump on that aspect and treat them all badly.

Why bring Ebloa into this? The topic was about the shooting in Canada and even Islam as a sub-topic, not that strain or anything else.


DeadlyOats wrote:

It's like Canada has lost its virginity.


Lol.
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Posted 10/26/14 , edited 10/26/14

SoldierSangria wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:

9/11 notwithstanding. The vast majority of people have been killed by non-muslims. David Koresh, Timothy McViegh, The Batman shooter, the perpetrators of the thirty or so school shootings a year etc.

in a related note Africa is bigger than North America, The area with ebola is one concentrated zone smaller than Arizona. Yet people are being banned from school for visiting South Africa. That's like New Yorkers being afraid of Katrina. Did you know that compared to catching Ebola in the US, you are nine times more likely to have divorced Mickey Rooney.

Don't subscribe to the culture of fear.



I'm not subscribed to the culture of fear. I should have mentioned that these were not my views - just the general views of people. I travel quite often, and globally and well...Unfortunately Muslims face a load of this type of discrimination and stereotyping wherever they are - especially I've noticed, in Europe where there are a load of them. Like I've said, the ones who demand the laws to be changed to suit them more etc. are the ones giving everyone else a bad name, and therefore people jump on that aspect and treat them all badly.

Why bring Ebloa into this? The topic was about the shooting in Canada and even Islam as a sub-topic, not that strain or anything else.


DeadlyOats wrote:

It's like Canada has lost its virginity.


Lol.


I brought up Ebola because it's supported by the same ignorance and culture of fear that powers Islamiphobia. and No we lost it long ago in the 1970s. Terrorism is not new to Canada. Sorry however, for killing the messenger, I understand now that the views you describe are not your own. and that there are idiots who provoke 'our' idiots. Thanks for clarifying.

edit: Nor are mad lone gunmen new to Canada. look up Marc Lepine, L'ecole Polytecnic, even the Quebec Legislature (another case were the Sgt at Arms did his job).


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Posted 10/26/14 , edited 10/26/14
I found out about this while going downstairs to get a snack during a break from watching Letter Bee.
After finding about it, I promptly went back upstairs and resumed watching the show.

I've been expecting something like this to happen for years. All I could do was just sigh and move on.

I wonder what problem people have with agreeing with each other.
It's absolutely none of my business, but I observed that SoldierSangria makes some good and interesting points in this thread which are not at odds, at their base, with papagolfwhiskey's, and yet continues to reply to papagolfwhiskey's in an argumentative manner, guised in (mostly sound) logic and a veil of neutrality (which is altered with every subsequent post). If I had any form of small currency for every time I've seen that kind of behaviour on the internet I'd probably be filthy rich already. This is the kind of 'friendship' that makes the internet go 'round. :)

Culturally, there seems to be a basic thing on the internet that to agree with someone is the equivalent of an inguinal presentation among dogs.

Anyway, the take non-Canadians seem to have on this is interesting. Also the way the news and communication in general bend the apparent attitude of Canadians. In general, I've found Canada to be a nation of highly opinionated, jaded armchair activists at worst and a bunch of alarmingly grounded and casual, almost bomb-proof people best. It's easy to find and grab sound bites from more panic-stricken opinions right after an event like this occurs... but give it a couple of weeks and the standard of complacency and inaction will probably be right back where it was.

The other most interesting thing I've seen about this whole event is how big an event this looks like to people outside of Canada. On Canadian news channels, it was shown pretty often for a while. But switching to an American channel... Wow. It seemed like nothing but constant coverage of an event that didn't even happen in 'Murica.

Canadians are pretty laid back and when not being sheep tend to roll with the punches of everything. (So we're either sheep... or seaweed.) Reading comments all over the internet from various other Canadians, I keep seeing a trend of relative stability. Some of it is just political correctness... and some of it is genuinely thoughtful and committed.

This pretty much covers it:
http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/canadas-cbc-news-shows-what-thoughtful-breaking-news-coverage-really-looks-like_b243081
https://twitter.com/scottbix/status/524998822557409280
Worse, the CBC coverage was the probably one of the most sensationalized out of all of the Canadian news coverage I've seen of this event. (If you catch my drift.) Not to say that I'm following it extremely closely. But even for me, it's hard to ignore.

In a way, I'm almost proud of my country.

Also, I like SpiritWolf15's point, here.

Where in my post did i say that was the case? It is secondary in that it was not the defining cause as some news circuits would have you believe. His mental health issues were known and poorly handled which more than likely lead to this entire event. Was his conversion to Islam entirely unrelated? I don't know, what I do know is that if an ISIS/ISIL cell was looking for an easy mark, someone with untreated or poorly treated mental health issues seems like a likely candidate.


Extremist groups of any kind almost always rely on a pool of damaged, weakened, desperate, highly expendable individuals to do the bulk of their dirty work. The root cause of this 'argument' can actually be seen in the description of the news in the first link I posted. Part of the lack of coverage of the perp's affiliation and the 'lack of commitment' to pegging Islam by Canadians was definitely a cowardly attempt at avoiding all possible offense to any known group of people. The rest of it... was sanity and good conduct. Something - I'm going to shamelessly state, knowing how offensive it will be to a large portion of CR's users (and even larger portion of the internet's users) - I feel has been lost, for the most part, in the USA.

When I first heard this news, there were only two groups my mind first jumped to as being what the perpetrator/secondary victim probably thought of himself as: 'White' or Islamic.

It's easy to default to 'Islamic', because (for anyone not Muslim) they're 'other', and because there's pressure and a strong stigma against thinking of white people in this way except on an individual basis. (E.g. "That [one] guy is crazy!") Even among white people. It's a herd mentality thing, as well as a form of psychological self-protection. Everyone has this, it's a matter of whether we recognize it in ourselves or not, and whether we let it run where it wants or commit ourselves to actual thought.


The death is tragic, but it would be even more tragic if we allow politicians to use it as an excuse to get us involved in another war.

but it's already too late for that

haokun32's post almost makes me feel pride at being Canadian.

Ugh, to think I logged on to watch Gugure! Kokkuri-san and ended up writing this ridiculous wall instead...
So much for my escapism.
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Posted 10/26/14 , edited 10/26/14

papagolfwhiskey wrote:

Quoted for truth



Oh man... Thanks.




Also, I like SpiritWolf15's point, here.

Where in my post did i say that was the case? It is secondary in that it was not the defining cause as some news circuits would have you believe. His mental health issues were known and poorly handled which more than likely lead to this entire event. Was his conversion to Islam entirely unrelated? I don't know, what I do know is that if an ISIS/ISIL cell was looking for an easy mark, someone with untreated or poorly treated mental health issues seems like a likely candidate.


Extremist groups of any kind almost always rely on a pool of damaged, weakened, desperate, highly expendable individuals to do the bulk of their dirty work. The root cause of this 'argument' can actually be seen in the description of the news in the first link I posted. Part of the lack of coverage of the perp's affiliation and the 'lack of commitment' to pegging Islam by Canadians was definitely a cowardly attempt at avoiding all possible offense to any known group of people. The rest of it... was sanity and good conduct. Something - I'm going to shamelessly state, knowing how offensive it will be to a large portion of CR's users (and even larger portion of the internet's users) - I feel has been lost, for the most part, in the USA.


I'm glad someone else realizes this.
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Posted 10/26/14

HuastecoOtaku wrote:

The weird thing is stuff like this isn't shocking to most Americans... We've been desensitized with all the random shootings in the last few years.


I blame my desensitization on Terra Formars. World is crazy and will probably just keep getting crazier. There will always be crazy dumb people doing stupid senseless hurtful selfish things that they'll pretend have meanings to them.
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Posted 10/27/14
Murder is in no way justifiable.
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Posted 10/27/14 , edited 10/27/14

KurtIrving wrote:

Murder is in no way justifiable.


Water is wet, the Sun is bright and hot. Now that we have that out of the way what are you talking about. Was anyone on this thread trying to Justify the actions of the gunman who took the life of Cpl. Nathan Carillo or for that matter the driver of the car who deliberately ran over and killed Warrant Patrice Vincent. If they had please point them out while I get my flamethrower ready.

Unrelated but to avoid double posting.




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