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SAO plot holes
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Posted 10/27/14 , edited 10/28/14

metalshiflet96 wrote:

Laughing Coffin didn't kill anyone technically, it would be an easy case for any competent lawyer.


All I'm arguing is that there would be a case in this scenario. The families of those killed would press charges, and many people could testify to the obviously murderous demeanor of Laughing Coffin(SAO is not subtle on this point). Under these circumstances, I'd imagine such a case would at least deserve a mention.
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Posted 10/27/14 , edited 10/28/14

desbravador wrote:

All I'm arguing is that there would be a case in this scenario. The families of those killed would press charges, and many people could testify to the obviously murderous demeanor of Laughing Coffin(SAO is not subtle on this point). Under these circumstances, I'd imagine such a case would at least deserve a mention.


That's not really a hole in the plot, that's just something that isn't mentioned. It doesn't create any real problems in the story. It is mentioned in the LN that laughing coffin members received counseling, but it's a really minor detail

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Posted 10/27/14
i still think Klein is underrated
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Posted 10/27/14 , edited 10/28/14

metalshiflet96 wrote:

All I'm arguing is that there would be a case in this scenario. The families of those killed would press charges, and many people could testify to the obviously murderous demeanor of Laughing Coffin(SAO is not subtle on this point). Under these circumstances, I'd imagine such a case would at least deserve a mention.
That's not really a hole in the plot, that's just something that isn't mentioned. It doesn't create any real problems in the story. It is mentioned in the LN that laughing coffin members received counseling, but it's a really minor detail



This has become a bit speculative I have to confess. I could attempt to save this line of reasoning by suggesting that it would be harder to get away with a string of mmo-related murders after being on trial for mmo murders, but that could be argued endlessly.

I'll also concede this point to you. If we stop here, it does become an error of omission more than anything since it's debatable whether or not a conviction could be pulled off.

It's strangely ironic: my proposed plot-hole boils down to bad-writing after I started by differentiating the two.
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Posted 10/27/14

itzbeaver wrote:

i still think Klein is underrated


Definitely true
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Posted 10/27/14 , edited 10/27/14

desbravador wrote:
If that information was wholly irrelevant, what did Kirito even do for that investigation? I suppose that's a rhetorical question that calls into question the climax of the arc.

If the SAO username and LC connection was of no use to authorities, it's conceivable for the trail to go dead.

I'll give it to you under those assumptions.


Sorry, I worded things poorly there. I was saying the name was irrelevant to the authorities until Kirito had solved the case and made the connection between DG and LC. As I said in the sentence before that. I was basically saying the authorities could not ID the specific LC member as being DG until Kirito made the connection.

DG being LC was pointless until they knew which person he was from it, and the username helped them link the real world name with DG. Once they knew Sterben=XaXa they could track down the real world name and address using the player data on file from the SAO incident.
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Posted 10/27/14 , edited 10/27/14

sonic720 wrote:


desbravador wrote:
If that information was wholly irrelevant, what did Kirito even do for that investigation? I suppose that's a rhetorical question that calls into question the climax of the arc.

If the SAO username and LC connection was of no use to authorities, it's conceivable for the trail to go dead.

I'll give it to you under those assumptions.


Sorry, I worded things poorly there. I was saying the name was irrelevant to the authorities until Kirito had solved the case and made the connection between DG and LC. As I said in the sentence before that. I was basically saying the authorities could not ID the specific LC member as being DG until Kirito made the connection.

DG being LC was pointless until they knew which person he was from it, and the username helped them link the real world name with DG. Once they knew Sterben=XaXa they could track down the real world name and address using the player data on file from the SAO incident.


If I had remembered XaXa myself perhaps I would have been clearer. I only referenced DG to argue the authorities had XaXa's real name on record and that a formidable case could be build against at least some of the LC members from there

Still, in the other comment chain, I acknowledged the real problem being lack of details about how suspected LC were dealt with following SAO being cleared. These guys were the worst type of humans, and as an audience, we want to see some attempt at justice.

No matter how it is dealt with legally, it would end up being a media frenzy and one of the most important issues in the wake of SAO. If brought to trial, it would make for the trial of the century: are virtual crimes with real consequences equivalent to real crimes.

The fact that we have to have this discussion is a serious problem with world building.

TLDR: This issue is problematic but more suspect writing than a plot-hole.

Edit: fixed quote syntax.
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Posted 10/27/14

desbravador wrote:
If I had remembered XaXa myself perhaps I would have been clearer. I only referenced DG to argue the authorities had XaXa's real name on record and that a formidable case could be build against at least some of the LC members from there

Still, in the other comment chain, I acknowledged the real problem being lack of details about how suspected LC were dealt with following SAO being cleared. These guys were the worst type of humans, and as an audience, we want to see some attempt at justice.

No matter how it is dealt with legally, it would end up being a media frenzy and one of the most important issues in the wake of SAO. If brought to trial, it would make for the trial of the century: are virtual crimes with real consequences equivalent to real crimes.

The fact that we have to have this discussion is a serious problem with world building.

TLDR: This issue is problematic but more suspect writing than a plot-hole.


Again though, they did not have solid evidence to book all of LC on murder charges. Not to mention LC itself was a victim of Kayaba and putting them on trial with weak evidence is a PR disaster in the waiting. All they had to go on was hearsay from those that reported them. That's not enough to convict them without knowing specific murders they enacted at specific times. This is where having someone adapt enough to read the logs, in conjunction with eyewitness testimony, would have to happen for a case to be built.

But I do agree the biggest flaw with SAO is not having the outside issues addressed much, if at all. They are more glossed over in favor of the action, which by anime standards is nothing new. Most anime have this weakness because they are primarily meant for entertainment and not to be deeper looks at society and other things. However, I don't see a lot of them being held to the same standard SAO is for whatever reason.
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Posted 10/27/14

Schmeh172 wrote:

The entire ending of the first half of the first season.

Entering god mode out of random is just bad writing.


That is exactly why I despise Taiga in Kuroko's Basketball.
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Posted 10/27/14
Deus ex machina...

There we're no plot holes in SAO, god just showed up.
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Posted 10/27/14 , edited 10/27/14

sonic720 wrote:


Again though, they did not have solid evidence to book all of LC on murder charges. Not to mention LC itself was a victim of Kayaba and putting them on trial with weak evidence is a PR disaster in the waiting. All they had to go on was hearsay from those that reported them. That's not enough to convict them without knowing specific murders they enacted at specific times. This is where having someone adapt enough to read the logs, in conjunction with eyewitness testimony, would have to happen for a case to be built.

But I do agree the biggest flaw with SAO is not having the outside issues addressed much, if at all. They are more glossed over in favor of the action, which by anime standards is nothing new. Most anime have this weakness because they are primarily meant for entertainment and not to be deeper looks at society and other things. However, I don't see a lot of them being held to the same standard SAO is for whatever reason.


You won't get all of LC; there's no way you can implicate every single member with the evidence available. Hard evidence would be tough; that's why I attempted to build that case with the time of death of those lost in the attack (as witnessed in real life by their time of death at the hospital) corresponding with the testimony of the lead team. My argument is counting on the strength of numbers in testimonies about Laughing Coffin's general activity and the witnessed murders at the time of the assault. Those lost in the attack may be red-shirts to us, but they had guild members who knew their names and will remember the traumatic moment when they were cut down. I believe that would amount to more than just hearsay, but you are right about this becoming a legal debate about the anime equivalent of a summer action flick.

Personally, I started watching this series because an anime reviewer referred to it as a glorious train wreck. I have no right to complain because it gave me exactly what I wanted.

I criticize it because 1: it is incredibly fun, and 2: there was the potential for a better series I wish I could have watched instead.


Edit: In case this discussion wasn't already absurd enough, here's a reference: http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.1086/468111?uid=3739552&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21104415887091

The Japanese criminal justice system is notoriously bad for the defendant. It may actually be very easy to convict XaXa and the other ringleaders.
xxJing 
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Posted 10/27/14
I think SAO has some pretty solid PLOT. It has nothing on Ikkitousen or even Strike the Blood, but its superior to Mahouka.
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Posted 10/27/14 , edited 10/28/14
Kirito is killed, fuck it, his overpowered character survives the system and defies the rules --> kirito survives and kills the gamemaster

Kirito is by far one of the strongest characters in SAO by mobbing alone, when in a real game, you at least need a party, for healing, etc.... he mobbed in the same place and was the strongest

Asuna died and was not killed in real life, she was even revived when they said we had around 10 seconds before frying their brains...

Blocking their names, seriously?

Since when Asuna's character has blue hair in Alheim Online? im pretty sure her character had orange hair to begin with, she had it in the ALO arc and now its blue
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Posted 10/27/14

Siawo wrote:

Kirito is killed, fuck it, his overpowered character survives the system and defies the rules --> kirito survives and kills the gamemaster

Kirito is by far one of the strongest characters in SAO by mobbing alone, when in a real game, you at least need a party, for healing, etc.... he mobbed in the same place and was the strongest

Asuna died and was not killed in real life, she was even revived when they said we had around 10 seconds before frying their brains...

Blocking their names, seriously?

Since when Asuna's character has blue hair in Alheim Online? im pretty sure her character had orange hair to begin with, she had it in the ALO arc and now its blue


She rerolled. Before she wasn't really a player, just sugou's prisoner, so i dont think she had any skills or anything like that.

You can reach max power inGW2 solo easily, it took me less than a waek initially. And if they break your class you could go like 1v5. I havent played in a while but there was a time a theif could one shot out of stealth and stealth up again instanly. And with a specific item added into the game an engineer could lay on so many dots in an instant that doing 1v3 was easy. They always break some class into being massively op.
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Posted 10/27/14 , edited 10/27/14

Siawo wrote:

Kirito is killed, fuck it, his overpowered character survives the system and defies the rules --> kirito survives and kills the gamemaster

Kirito is by far one of the strongest characters in SAO by mobbing alone, when in a real game, you at least need a party, for healing, etc.... he mobbed in the same place and was the strongest

Asuna died and was not killed in real life, she was even revived when they said we had around 10 seconds before frying their brains...

Blocking their names, seriously?

Since when Asuna's character has blue hair in Alheim Online? im pretty sure her character had orange hair to begin with, she had it in the ALO arc and now its blue


The last one isn't a plot hole, it's common sense. Seriously, it's not like people do their hair differently sometimes
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