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Should smokers be allowed to make their own decisions?
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Posted 10/29/14
Smoking is harmful to the users and people around them for no gain.
It makes no sense financial or otherwise to start or continue the act.
So should people that make such poor decisions be allowed to think for themselves?

previous thread got locked because mod said cleaning was impossible so here it is again.
enjoy.
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Posted 10/29/14

xBlackxRavenx wrote:

Well why cant they chose when others can chose to do other things that are much worse like drugs and drinking until they become stupid? if the person smoking is getting their smokes from their own money then i dont see why not, yes they should have the common knowledge of not smoking near kids/babies/old people/people who cant handle smoke, but if that person is smoking outside and not bothering anyone else, i dont see why they cant make that choice. If they care about their own health they'll stop sooner or later or ask for help, if not then guess they dont care all that much about it.


Why do I keep getting this comparison to alcohol?
People that drink themselves stupid shouldn't make their own decisions either but because they do then smokers should, too?
The same could be reversed, that's circular logic.
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Posted 10/29/14 , edited 10/30/14
To put this bluntly and maybe start this conversation a little faster, to say it makes no sense is coming from a point of personal ignorance.

To say it makes no sense is a bad way of saying "I don't understand how starting or continuing makes sense to people who are not me."

So get ready for the backlash, because I'm sure it's gonna start rolling in all over again.

My suggestion is to smoke all you want, but make sure you don't do it around people like Sir_jamesalot or you'll never hear the end of it.
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Posted 10/29/14 , edited 10/29/14

morechunch wrote:

To put this bluntly and maybe start this conversation a little faster, to say it makes no sense is coming from a point of personal ignorance.

To say it makes no sense is a bad way of saying "I don't understand how starting or continuing makes sense to people who are not me."


From your previous post I got that you are willing to sacrifice health for the adrenalin and good feels from the high

This seemed to me like a bad deal and I always thought the high was from satisfying a drug dependency, but that's speculation on my part.



xBlackxRavenx wrote:

drinking and smoking is on the same level, if someone wishes to do it, they will, i dont see why someone else should jump in and tell them how to live their own life, if they worked their ass off and are ok with smoking or drinking or whatever then they can do it, they know its bad and they'll stop if they want to, no one else has the right to tell them what to do because agian it is their life.


If you drink and drive, someone will tell you not to, even if you worked in a sweat shop to pay for it all.
You may know it's a bad idea and still be OK with it. You may see the cost in health/loss of license/fine/gaol time is paying for the privilege or the right to make the decision to break the law (assuming drink driving is illegal there).
Wouldn't it be better to deny a person this decision and take away their keys or drink?
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Posted 10/29/14

Sir_jamesalot wrote:


morechunch wrote:

To put this bluntly and maybe start this conversation a little faster, to say it makes no sense is coming from a point of personal ignorance.

To say it makes no sense is a bad way of saying "I don't understand how starting or continuing makes sense to people who are not me."


From your previous post I got that you are willing to sacrifice health for the adrenalin and good feels from the high

This seemed to me like a bad deal and I always thought the high was from satisfying a drug dependency, but that's speculation on my part.


The negatives of the low are definitely avoided by continuing to, but there is still the effect of the high.

It's like how anti-depressants can cause suicidal thoughts and actions. The low is different when your brain has functioned with a certain dosage for long enough.

Crazy hardcore alcoholics that I could never aspire to can die from physical withdrawal symptoms. We don't all die from dependency, but it can get out of control.

So it's important to know that some people treat smoking as a priority, a necessity. When I travel 3 hours to stay the night at my grandparents, I got one or two days without a cigarette. I know this affects my mood, but I've learned how it affects my mood and that helps.


So, I guess my solution has narrowed to education and regulation. Let people know all the effects of smoking, because I've heard the bad from everybody for so long and at one point, that wasn't scary enough to me, and regulate it so that people don't blow smoke all over the place.


Better education, better regulation.
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Posted 10/29/14

Sir_jamesalot wrote:

If you drink and drive, someone will tell you not to, even if you worked in a sweat shop to pay for it all.
You may know it's a bad idea and still be OK with it. You may see the cost in health/loss of license/fine/gaol time is paying for the privilege or the right to make the decision to break the law (assuming drink driving is illegal there).
Wouldn't it be better to deny a person this decision and take away their keys or drink?


This is a tough one. Have you heard of the interlock device? It is a breathalyzer that you can have installed in your car if you get a DUI, but didn't hurt anybody and you need your car for legitimate travel purposes. You have to blow into it to turn your car on. Apparently, it also goes off while you're driving and it records whether you blew into it or not and your blood alcohol content.

People say it's really inconvenient, but these people have DUIs. I have driven VERY drunk before and thought "isn't this totally reckless?"
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Posted 10/29/14

morechunch wrote:

This is a tough one. Have you heard of the interlock device? It is a breathalyzer that you can have installed in your car if you get a DUI, but didn't hurt anybody and you need your car for legitimate travel purposes. You have to blow into it to turn your car on. Apparently, it also goes off while you're driving and it records whether you blew into it or not and your blood alcohol content.

People say it's really inconvenient, but these people have DUIs. I have driven VERY drunk before and thought "isn't this totally reckless?"


I think something like that should be standard.
Keys for the door and alcohol test for the ignition.
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Posted 10/29/14

Sir_jamesalot wrote:


morechunch wrote:

This is a tough one. Have you heard of the interlock device? It is a breathalyzer that you can have installed in your car if you get a DUI, but didn't hurt anybody and you need your car for legitimate travel purposes. You have to blow into it to turn your car on. Apparently, it also goes off while you're driving and it records whether you blew into it or not and your blood alcohol content.

People say it's really inconvenient, but these people have DUIs. I have driven VERY drunk before and thought "isn't this totally reckless?"


I think something like that should be standard.
Keys for the door and alcohol test for the ignition.


An agreement!
Posted 10/29/14
best thing to do is replace it with something else for their addiction. smokeless tobacco etc.. it's already being fazed out.
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Posted 10/30/14

severticas wrote:

best thing to do is replace it with something else for their addiction. smokeless tobacco etc.. it's already being fazed out.


I like the idea of replacing tobacco with cyanide.
Because I like blue
Posted 10/30/14

Sir_jamesalot wrote:


severticas wrote:

best thing to do is replace it with something else for their addiction. smokeless tobacco etc.. it's already being fazed out.


I like the idea of replacing tobacco with cyanide.
Because I like blue


h well, it's their body.
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Posted 10/30/14
It's your body, you have a right to make bad choices for it. Smoking is prohibited in certain public places because of the health risks to bystanders, and that's more than reasonable. I don't smoke, and I don't think people should smoke. However, I don't think it is reasonable to force my values on them if they are not making my health decisions for me by smoking near me in a public place. I don't have to agree with it to agree with their right to do it, if that makes sense.
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Posted 10/30/14

dfoley83 wrote:

It's your body, you have a right to make bad choices for it. Smoking is prohibited in certain public places because of the health risks to bystanders, and that's more than reasonable. I don't smoke, and I don't think people should smoke. However, I don't think it is reasonable to force my values on them if they are not making my health decisions for me by smoking near me in a public place. I don't have to agree with it to agree with their right to do it, if that makes sense.


What if they smoke in a public place?
Is it ok to force your values on them then?
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Posted 10/30/14

Sir_jamesalot wrote:


dfoley83 wrote:

It's your body, you have a right to make bad choices for it. Smoking is prohibited in certain public places because of the health risks to bystanders, and that's more than reasonable. I don't smoke, and I don't think people should smoke. However, I don't think it is reasonable to force my values on them if they are not making my health decisions for me by smoking near me in a public place. I don't have to agree with it to agree with their right to do it, if that makes sense.


What if they smoke in a public place?
Is it ok to force your values on them then?


That depends. If their value is, "I feel that I have a right to smoke" then I don't see any reason for society to force them to change their behavior. If their value is "I have a right to smoke on this bus without the consent of all of its passengers" then I do believe their rights need to be restricted in that specific situation. They have every right to smoke, and I have the right to expect them to not smoke in my hospital room or next to me on a bus. Again, make your own health decisions and not other peoples.
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Posted 10/30/14 , edited 10/30/14
I don't think it's a good argument to say you do something because you have the right.
Rights can be taken away or rewritten at anytime, they are not absolute.
I should be based on what seems like a good idea and if it seems like a good idea to do something detrimental then mabe you should think twice about your own judgement.
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