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To Quarantine Or Not To Quarantine?
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Posted 10/30/14


They still get paid while in quarantine. I recall this being one of the first things addressed when the governors issued the quarantine order last week. They can just eat the food they have at home or have some of the people monitoring them bring them food.

I don't remember SARS but I remember swine flu being dealt with rather quickly years ago. Besides, by the time it people started worrying about it, it was already spreading within the country. Here we have a lethal disease with no cure at the moment and so far it has barely spread in this country. It's hardly a problem as it is and having a mandatory quarantine will keep it that way by ensuring it really doesn't spread. The last thing we need is for some self entitled doctor/nurse to start feeling sick, swap spit with someone, have that person make direct contact with other people, and then have that doctor/nurse diagnosed with ebola the next day. Keep in mind the initial symptoms of ebola can be found in a large number of other diseases. If you have ebola and you sneeze just once or twice, you might think it's nothing until a day or two later when you're coughing and vomiting. Also, it's flu season so that makes it even harder to know whether or not you have ebola until you go to a hospital to get tested.



I don't understand why people actually believe there's no science behind the decision to quarantine. When you look at the facts and what we currently know about ebola so far, it makes perfect sense to have a quarantine. The incubation period for ebola could last up to 21 days. The test for ebola will always be negative until the symptoms start presenting themselves, meaning you could go days or even over a week carrying this disease without knowing it. Ebola is spread through bodily fluids, meaning if there's no physical contact, there's absolutely no chance of contracting the disease... at least until it becomes airborne, which hopefully doesn't happen any time soon. The best way of making sure it doesn't spread is by not making physical contact with people during the time ebola could potentially develop. Besides, if you're quarantined and you start feeling ill, health care workers will know right away and be able to treat you as soon as possible. The nurse in Maine already demonstrated in front of the whole nation that she doesn't give a damn who she comes in contact with. She thinks that just because she's not showing symptoms now, it's impossible for her to have ebola even though it's only been 10 days since she last had contact with a patient in West Africa. If a returning health care worker doesn't have ebola, it's impossible to determine that for sure until 21 days have passed.

Even if the chance of them having it is 1/100, it's better to be safe than sorry. Especially when the risk far outweighs the the reasons to not have a quarantine. It's not giving into fear. It's taking reasonable precautions to prevent something from becoming a problem. We've gotten lucky that it's only spread to 2 in the country so far. Thomas Eric Duncan, the first guy diagnosed had contact with dozens of people while he was symptomatic. Amber Vincent, the second nurse infected, got on a plane when she had a fever and was diagnosed with ebola the very next day. Dr. Spencer here in NYC was at a bowling alley and rode the subway when he started feeling sick. Do you have any idea how crowded the subways here get? Hundreds of unprotected people have been exposed to symptomatic ebola patients. It's a miracle none of them contracted the disease. If you want to see people giving into fear, just look at Spain. They killed a nurse's dog on suspicion that he was contagious.

"The science is we know ebola" is a false statement. We don't know everything there is to know about ebola. We've been studying ebola for decades and it's been changing for decades. That's why we have that current epidemic in West Africa. If we knew everything about it, we would've had a cure for the disease's current form by now.

As for the nurses who got infected in Texas, it wasn't their fault. They were following the hospital's and CDC's guidelines. It's just that those guidelines were awful and the equipment those nurses were given were just asking for someone to catch ebola. People who were suppose to be knowledgeable about ebola were inconsistent with how they dealt with it and gave out unreliable instructions to the doctors and nurses treating an ebola patient. The outfits they were given left various parts of their skin exposed. The hospital was also careless in how they treated their first patient. They sent him home without doing much for him and then 2 days later he was rushed back to the hospital. They unintentionally allowed for the disease to worsen by delaying his treatment.

We're not imitating North Korea. They're the ones copying us. Their quarantine was set up just now. Ours has been in place for a week. Besides, unlike North Korea, people actually want to come to this country.



Actually, doctors and nurses are refusing to go to the hot zone because the white house and their media puppets are scaring them into believing they become living laboratory experiments hooked up to life support for an eternity and stripped of all human rights. It sickens me to see their scare tactic is working on some doctors and nurses who could easily contribute to solving this problem at the source. They're also buying into the white house's trick of inflating their egos to make them think they deserve special treatment. You can't call yourself a selfless hero for helping someone and then kick a puppy a minute later. The whole purpose of the quarantine is to keep the doctors and nurses safe and also keep their loved ones and anyone else they come in contact with safe, but the white house is painting it to look like they're getting gassed by Hitler.
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Posted 10/30/14
lol just quarantine them end of story...you stay away from someone who has a flu or fever so others dont catch it right? it should be the same with ebola..its not that difficult...
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Posted 10/30/14 , edited 10/31/14

the_spaceguy wrote:

lol just quarantine them end of story...you stay away from someone who has a flu or fever so others dont catch it right? it should be the same with ebola..its not that difficult...


then lets quarantine you when you get the flu..it is far more contagious and kills 10 times as many people. you know just because people with no medical training and a failing grade in science say so.


PhantomGundam wrote:



They still get paid while in quarantine. I recall this being one of the first things addressed when the governors issued the quarantine order last week. They can just eat the food they have at home or have some of the people monitoring them bring them food.

I don't remember SARS but I remember swine flu being dealt with rather quickly years ago. Besides, by the time it people started worrying about it, it was already spreading within the country. Here we have a lethal disease with no cure at the moment and so far it has barely spread in this country. It's hardly a problem as it is and having a mandatory quarantine will keep it that way by ensuring it really doesn't spread. The last thing we need is for some self entitled doctor/nurse to start feeling sick, swap spit with someone, have that person make direct contact with other people, and then have that doctor/nurse diagnosed with ebola the next day. Keep in mind the initial symptoms of ebola can be found in a large number of other diseases. If you have ebola and you sneeze just once or twice, you might think it's nothing until a day or two later when you're coughing and vomiting. Also, it's flu season so that makes it even harder to know whether or not you have ebola until you go to a hospital to get tested.



I don't understand why people actually believe there's no science behind the decision to quarantine. When you look at the facts and what we currently know about ebola so far, it makes perfect sense to have a quarantine. The incubation period for ebola could last up to 21 days. The test for ebola will always be negative until the symptoms start presenting themselves, meaning you could go days or even over a week carrying this disease without knowing it. Ebola is spread through bodily fluids, meaning if there's no physical contact, there's absolutely no chance of contracting the disease... at least until it becomes airborne, which hopefully doesn't happen any time soon. The best way of making sure it doesn't spread is by not making physical contact with people during the time ebola could potentially develop. Besides, if you're quarantined and you start feeling ill, health care workers will know right away and be able to treat you as soon as possible. The nurse in Maine already demonstrated in front of the whole nation that she doesn't give a damn who she comes in contact with. She thinks that just because she's not showing symptoms now, it's impossible for her to have ebola even though it's only been 10 days since she last had contact with a patient in West Africa. If a returning health care worker doesn't have ebola, it's impossible to determine that for sure until 21 days have passed.

Even if the chance of them having it is 1/100, it's better to be safe than sorry. Especially when the risk far outweighs the the reasons to not have a quarantine. It's not giving into fear. It's taking reasonable precautions to prevent something from becoming a problem. We've gotten lucky that it's only spread to 2 in the country so far. Thomas Eric Duncan, the first guy diagnosed had contact with dozens of people while he was symptomatic. Amber Vincent, the second nurse infected, got on a plane when she had a fever and was diagnosed with ebola the very next day. Dr. Spencer here in NYC was at a bowling alley and rode the subway when he started feeling sick. Do you have any idea how crowded the subways here get? Hundreds of unprotected people have been exposed to symptomatic ebola patients. It's a miracle none of them contracted the disease. If you want to see people giving into fear, just look at Spain. They killed a nurse's dog on suspicion that he was contagious.

"The science is we know ebola" is a false statement. We don't know everything there is to know about ebola. We've been studying ebola for decades and it's been changing for decades. That's why we have that current epidemic in West Africa. If we knew everything about it, we would've had a cure for the disease's current form by now.

As for the nurses who got infected in Texas, it wasn't their fault. They were following the hospital's and CDC's guidelines. It's just that those guidelines were awful and the equipment those nurses were given were just asking for someone to catch ebola. People who were suppose to be knowledgeable about ebola were inconsistent with how they dealt with it and gave out unreliable instructions to the doctors and nurses treating an ebola patient. The outfits they were given left various parts of their skin exposed. The hospital was also careless in how they treated their first patient. They sent him home without doing much for him and then 2 days later he was rushed back to the hospital. They unintentionally allowed for the disease to worsen by delaying his treatment.

We're not imitating North Korea. They're the ones copying us. Their quarantine was set up just now. Ours has been in place for a week. Besides, unlike North Korea, people actually want to come to this country.



Actually, doctors and nurses are refusing to go to the hot zone because the white house and their media puppets are scaring them into believing they become living laboratory experiments hooked up to life support for an eternity and stripped of all human rights. It sickens me to see their scare tactic is working on some doctors and nurses who could easily contribute to solving this problem at the source. They're also buying into the white house's trick of inflating their egos to make them think they deserve special treatment. You can't call yourself a selfless hero for helping someone and then kick a puppy a minute later. The whole purpose of the quarantine is to keep the doctors and nurses safe and also keep their loved ones and anyone else they come in contact with safe, but the white house is painting it to look like they're getting gassed by Hitler.


there is a saying, if you won't stand behind them than you are welcome to stand in front of them. lets reinstate the draft and send your ass over first kid. when it's your ass on the line ur attitude might change lmao.
at 17 years old mommy and daddy are supporting you. and you have the balls to talk about medical professionals who have 4 to 8 years of collage?
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I'm for quarantine. It's for the benefit of everyone. You travel to a region of the world with a highly infectious virus and personally deal with people who die from it, quarantine should be expected. I'm not saying that you need to be sent to a bubble for 21 days, but I think staying at your home and staying indoors and away from others is a good thing. Monitor your temperature daily and report it to other medical personnel.

The woman in Maine is selfish. Sorry you were paid to sit in quarantine, with free WiFi and Chinese take out brought to you whenever you wanted. Surely such indignity should be prevented.
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Posted 10/31/14
let me explain this to you trolls. a registered nurse has 4 to 6 years of medical school. in addition to her clinical experience. a doctor has 6 to 8 years of med school in addition to 4 years of residency... the governors of any state have 0 years of med school. reporters...all have 0 science or biology credit's much less 8 years of med school. trolls here. mostly high school kids failing math and science. i think those doctors and nurses know better than American high school kids who rank 30th in the world in math and science. they know better than politicians who have no education in math science or biology much less medical science.. and certainly know better than reporters who are just trying to whip up the hype so their corporation can ramp up ratings. and sell add time
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Posted 10/31/14

bernardwheelerjr wrote:


the_spaceguy wrote:

lol just quarantine them end of story...you stay away from someone who has a flu or fever so others dont catch it right? it should be the same with ebola..its not that difficult...


then lets quarantine you when you get the flu..it is far more contagious and kills 10 times as many people. you know just because people with no medical training and a failing grade in science say so.


No need to take it personal? And yes If I have Ebola please quarantine me... I stay away from people if I'm sick... Are you that ass who gets everyone at school or work sick?
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Posted 10/31/14 , edited 10/31/14

Akage-chan wrote:

I'm for quarantine. It's for the benefit of everyone. You travel to a region of the world with a highly infectious virus and personally deal with people who die from it, quarantine should be expected. I'm not saying that you need to be sent to a bubble for 21 days, but I think staying at your home and staying indoors and away from others is a good thing. Monitor your temperature daily and report it to other medical personnel.

The woman in Maine is selfish. Sorry you were paid to sit in quarantine, with free WiFi and Chinese take out brought to you whenever you wanted. Surely such indignity should be prevented.


then i am for a law that bans you from coming to work with the flu. it is far more contagious and kills far more people and if you go to work and infect us you are "just selfish'.


the_spaceguy wrote:


bernardwheelerjr wrote:


the_spaceguy wrote:

lol just quarantine them end of story...you stay away from someone who has a flu or fever so others dont catch it right? it should be the same with ebola..its not that difficult...


then lets quarantine you when you get the flu..it is far more contagious and kills 10 times as many people. you know just because people with no medical training and a failing grade in science say so.


No need to take it personal? And yes If I have Ebola please quarantine me... I stay away from people if I'm sick... Are you that ass who gets everyone at school or work sick?


no i am that person who stays home with or without pay when he is sick and if i have to go out i wear a mask
you know because i am not a self absorbed douche bag.
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Posted 10/31/14

bernardwheelerjr wrote:


Akage-chan wrote:

I'm for quarantine. It's for the benefit of everyone. You travel to a region of the world with a highly infectious virus and personally deal with people who die from it, quarantine should be expected. I'm not saying that you need to be sent to a bubble for 21 days, but I think staying at your home and staying indoors and away from others is a good thing. Monitor your temperature daily and report it to other medical personnel.

The woman in Maine is selfish. Sorry you were paid to sit in quarantine, with free WiFi and Chinese take out brought to you whenever you wanted. Surely such indignity should be prevented.


then i am for a law that bans you from coming to work with the flu. it is far more contagious and kills far more people and if you go to work and infect us you are "just selfish'.


Do you still get paid?

If yes that sounds great.
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Posted 10/31/14 , edited 10/31/14

PhantomGundam wrote:

I don't understand why people actually believe there's no science behind the decision to quarantine. When you look at the facts and what we currently know about ebola so far, it makes perfect sense to have a quarantine. The incubation period for ebola could last up to 21 days. The test for ebola will always be negative until the symptoms start presenting themselves, meaning you could go days or even over a week carrying this disease without knowing it. Ebola is spread through bodily fluids, meaning if there's no physical contact, there's absolutely no chance of contracting the disease... at least until it becomes airborne, which hopefully doesn't happen any time soon. The best way of making sure it doesn't spread is by not making physical contact with people during the time ebola could potentially develop. Besides, if you're quarantined and you start feeling ill, health care workers will know right away and be able to treat you as soon as possible. The nurse in Maine already demonstrated in front of the whole nation that she doesn't give a damn who she comes in contact with. She thinks that just because she's not showing symptoms now, it's impossible for her to have ebola even though it's only been 10 days since she last had contact with a patient in West Africa. If a returning health care worker doesn't have ebola, it's impossible to determine that for sure until 21 days have passed.


I had a long post here, but in the end I guess it just comes down to this.

Doctors have been treating patients in Africa and returning to the US without a 21 day quarantine for decades now. What is so special now? The only reason we have seen people infected coming into the US is that the scale in Africa is about 50 times larger than any other year. But the numbers are still miniscule compared to the overall populations. And only 1 person died. And it is a coin toss as to whether that was because he was too far gone or because he was in a Dallas hospital that was unprepared rather than at Emory which was. Still, no one in the US that has been infected, all 2 of them, have died.

Flu kills 3000 each year on average of those infected in the US, Ebola has killed 0 of those infected in the US.

Here is the facts on Ebola. A person cannot transmit the disease, that is they are not contagious, until they are symptomatic. By this point they generally cannot really move on their own anyway. Just having a fever does not make one contagious yet because a fever is just the body's first reaction to any foreign element. The virus is still replicating at this stage. Depending on how close one is to a final stage, they could start getting contagious, but again most people at this stage can barely move. Just like you do not want to move with a major fever and the Flu, you are generally not out on the subway at this stage.

So what that nurse is trying to do is demonstrate that fact. That quarantine before symptoms arise is a fear reaction, not one based on science. Self monitoring of temperature and self reporting, now that is prudent and makes sense. But if for no other reason than to not burden down hospitals during the Flu season for no reason, people should not be in quarantine until they are symptomatic. Sure, once they begin a fever they should be brought in, but that is more for their own care than because they are infectious. Early treatment is always best, but treatment before antibodies start to form generally does not help.

I am not trying to downplay the dangers of Ebola. But people were just as scared and talking quarantine of HIV and AIDS back in the day. Because they did not understand how it spread, or rather medical science knew but people just did not want to listen. Right now, today, quarantine is not the right move either on a state or national level. Next week? Who knows. It is possible we might have to look at it. My point is not could we end up there one day, but that we are not at that stage yet. And implementing it early solves nothing, other than possibly give us a false sense of safety that may blind us to a major outbreak.

If Ebola were that infectious it would have circled the globe dozens of times already. It just is not that infectious. Dangerous to be sure, but proper precautions will prevent a major outbreak in the US. And that does not, currently, include quarantine.

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Posted 10/31/14 , edited 10/31/14

MarkyD73 wrote:


bernardwheelerjr wrote:


Akage-chan wrote:

I'm for quarantine. It's for the benefit of everyone. You travel to a region of the world with a highly infectious virus and personally deal with people who die from it, quarantine should be expected. I'm not saying that you need to be sent to a bubble for 21 days, but I think staying at your home and staying indoors and away from others is a good thing. Monitor your temperature daily and report it to other medical personnel.

The woman in Maine is selfish. Sorry you were paid to sit in quarantine, with free WiFi and Chinese take out brought to you whenever you wanted. Surely such indignity should be prevented.


then i am for a law that bans you from coming to work with the flu. it is far more contagious and kills far more people and if you go to work and infect us you are "just selfish'.


Do you still get paid?

If yes that sounds great.


funy you mention pay.. that nurse used all her paid vacation helping ebola patients in Africa..then she came home and like you needed to go back to work to "get paid" then some ass hole told her "sucks to be you you burned all your paid time helping those worthless Africans so now we are going to fuck you and make you take 21 days off unpaid because you fucked up and helped people we all hope die"

i am seriously starting to wonder if these people are racist scumbags that think this is an African disease and if we impose a travel ban and use a quarantine to discourage doctors and nurses from going over there they will git rid of all those Africans.
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DollyDagger11 wrote:



Cellory wrote:

The government did not quarantine military personal, the military did it to themselves. It was requested by the Joint Chiefs. And is frankly just easy ass covering for them.

And of course it is an over reaction. That is what the military does in situations like this. Because if they do not, and 1 corporal somewhere comes down with Ebola, 2/3rds of congress is going to be screaming for the scalps of the entire joint chiefs of staff and misquoting and frankly making up anything they might have said before. It is not about risk or safety or rationality, it is about the military covering their asses. And I am not saying this is wrong, because if they do not cover their ass Congress will be all over them likes flies on...yeah. But do not confuse their actions for rationality or safety or science. It is ass covering in case of a worse case scenario because no general or admiral wants to take an early forced retirement.

And it is not like being on a base is any different from being quarantined really. They might as well be for all practical purposes. It is easy enough for the military to tell their personnel "You cannot leave the base". It is rather more difficult both in terms of money and the practical like food and supplies to do so to thousands of people scattered throughout a city.


The decision was made between defense secretary (Hagel) and the joint chief of staff. Both sides including the government came down to this decision. So yeah, all military personnel returning from Ebola missions in West Africa are being quarantined. There doesn't seem anything irrational about this. This is an action of common sense that shouldn't even be debated. If I was in the military, or a nurse that was involved with the ebola missions, I would gladly take those measures.

I don't understand what you're trying to say. You begin with stating "this is an overreaction to the public and it's just all about ass covering"

And then you say "But if they don't, and 1 corporal somewhere comes down with Ebola.........."

See that's the thing. You just can't be sure about a disease outbreak. We are one of the few countries learning how to handle this outbreak, and although it's just now beginning in the US, world wide the case tolls at a whopping 10,000. Sure some die, and some don't. But telling me this is an overreaction and people are just taking preventative measures to cover for themselves is a bit out there.


What are you talking about? Countries have been studying Ebola for almost 40 years now. We are as prepared as any other first world nation out there. We are not one of the few countries learning how to handle it, arguably we know more about it than almost any other nation because we have dealt with it yearly, but we are not alone or even in a small group just learning. The US, along with the UK, France, Spain, and I believe Australia, send doctors out during every outbreak to study it. We know what we are dealing with, that is why we know what measures need to be taken.

At. This. Stage.

Quarantine may one day become necessary. I am not denying that. It is an arrow in the quiver so to speak. But again quarantine is a last ditch measure to contain an outbreak, it is not a preventative measure. A preventative measure for Ebola is to wash your hands and stay out of the way of anyone projectile vomiting unless you know it is alcohol poisoning. Of course, even if it were alcohol poisoning, I would still recommend staying out of the way of projective vomiting because...uh, gross.

I hear they pay extra for that in Japan though.

But preventative measures is not quarantine. Not yet anyway. Again it is washing your hands and not touching people's open sores or letting them bleed or vomit on you. Contraction of Ebola except during final stages or when handling a corpse is low. Like HIV / AIDS contraction low. Not quite of course, I would still rather deal with HIV than Ebola, but simple precautions will protect you against literally 99% of the viruses and bacteria out there. We do not quarantine for Lassa Fever. I would point out the Bubonic Plague still exists out there and cases are reported in the US West every so often. Leprosy still exists. Almost every major disease we vaccinate for exists in large numbers out there somewhere. It is not like they just went away or that we have cures for all of them. Many we still do not. A vaccine perhaps, but not necessarily a cure.

The whole of Africa has reported about 14,000 cases, of which about 5,000 have died. Outside of Africa we have had about 12 cases total including the 8 in the US, several of which were patients that were brought here rather than being treated in the field in Africa as they would have been in prior outbreaks. That is a far cry though from some world wide pandemic. Lassa Fever which is also a hemorrhagic fever like Ebola infects about 500,000 people in Africa each year and kills about 5,000 each year. Are we afraid of that? Do we quarantine for that? No, yet it infects a lot more people world wide than Ebola ever has. And again Ebola is not that fatal in the US when treated early. Of all the cases only 1 person has died, and he was infected outside of the US, and if that hospital in Dallas had been on the ball perhaps not even he would have died.

So what we have here is fear. Not medical science again. Fear.

Also if you were a nurse on those missions you would understand Ebola and how it was transmitted and understand why a quarantine right now is premature. It is not supported by any medical science or any reputable medical group that I am aware of in the US at this time.

Now I will grant the military has a readiness issue to consider. At least the Army does. Because of how army units are structured these days. But even that is a weak reason considering that most (like about 90%) of the troops being sent over there are just setting up field hospitals and associated plant and communication huts in cleared areas. They are not being exposed to the virus simply by being in theater. Only those few, and most of them are not military doctors or medical personnel they are civilian volunteers, who will staff the hospitals would have a chance of being infected. So only a tiny fraction of those sent over really need to even be considered for quarantine. It is just an overreaction to quarantine everyone. Again, I could list military readiness issues and concerns that are "valid" but the military spends billions of dollars overstaffing multiple communication hubs across the US "just in case" of a massive attack. Sure, if it ever happens we will be glad of that foresight, but in 70 years that adds up to a lot of money that could have gone elsewhere instead of to a threat than never materialized.

And I am not saying it was not worth it. From a military perspective it was money well spent to be sure. But it was also a fear reaction to a worst case scenario that never happened. You can be right and wrong sometimes at the exact same time. Or rather in this case do the wrong thing for the right reasons.

But that is the military side. We are talking about the civilian side of things. There is no military readiness issue to consider from the civilian side. So it really is doing the wrong thing for the wrong reason. If a person is not contagious quarantine is pointless and merely a fear reaction rather than a well thought out one.

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Posted 10/31/14

Cellory wrote:


DollyDagger11 wrote:



Cellory wrote:

The government did not quarantine military personal, the military did it to themselves. It was requested by the Joint Chiefs. And is frankly just easy ass covering for them.

And of course it is an over reaction. That is what the military does in situations like this. Because if they do not, and 1 corporal somewhere comes down with Ebola, 2/3rds of congress is going to be screaming for the scalps of the entire joint chiefs of staff and misquoting and frankly making up anything they might have said before. It is not about risk or safety or rationality, it is about the military covering their asses. And I am not saying this is wrong, because if they do not cover their ass Congress will be all over them likes flies on...yeah. But do not confuse their actions for rationality or safety or science. It is ass covering in case of a worse case scenario because no general or admiral wants to take an early forced retirement.

And it is not like being on a base is any different from being quarantined really. They might as well be for all practical purposes. It is easy enough for the military to tell their personnel "You cannot leave the base". It is rather more difficult both in terms of money and the practical like food and supplies to do so to thousands of people scattered throughout a city.


The decision was made between defense secretary (Hagel) and the joint chief of staff. Both sides including the government came down to this decision. So yeah, all military personnel returning from Ebola missions in West Africa are being quarantined. There doesn't seem anything irrational about this. This is an action of common sense that shouldn't even be debated. If I was in the military, or a nurse that was involved with the ebola missions, I would gladly take those measures.

I don't understand what you're trying to say. You begin with stating "this is an overreaction to the public and it's just all about ass covering"

And then you say "But if they don't, and 1 corporal somewhere comes down with Ebola.........."

See that's the thing. You just can't be sure about a disease outbreak. We are one of the few countries learning how to handle this outbreak, and although it's just now beginning in the US, world wide the case tolls at a whopping 10,000. Sure some die, and some don't. But telling me this is an overreaction and people are just taking preventative measures to cover for themselves is a bit out there.


What are you talking about? Countries have been studying Ebola for almost 40 years now. We are as prepared as any other first world nation out there. We are not one of the few countries learning how to handle it, arguably we know more about it than almost any other nation because we have dealt with it yearly, but we are not alone or even in a small group just learning. The US, along with the UK, France, Spain, and I believe Australia, send doctors out during every outbreak to study it. We know what we are dealing with, that is why we know what measures need to be taken.

At. This. Stage.

Quarantine may one day become necessary. I am not denying that. It is an arrow in the quiver so to speak. But again quarantine is a last ditch measure to contain an outbreak, it is not a preventative measure. A preventative measure for Ebola is to wash your hands and stay out of the way of anyone projectile vomiting unless you know it is alcohol poisoning. Of course, even if it were alcohol poisoning, I would still recommend staying out of the way of projective vomiting because...uh, gross.

I hear they pay extra for that in Japan though.

But preventative measures is not quarantine. Not yet anyway. Again it is washing your hands and not touching people's open sores or letting them bleed or vomit on you. Contraction of Ebola except during final stages or when handling a corpse is low. Like HIV / AIDS contraction low. Not quite of course, I would still rather deal with HIV than Ebola, but simple precautions will protect you against literally 99% of the viruses and bacteria out there. We do not quarantine for Lassa Fever. I would point out the Bubonic Plague still exists out there and cases are reported in the US West every so often. Leprosy still exists. Almost every major disease we vaccinate for exists in large numbers out there somewhere. It is not like they just went away or that we have cures for all of them. Many we still do not. A vaccine perhaps, but not necessarily a cure.

The whole of Africa has reported about 14,000 cases, of which about 5,000 have died. Outside of Africa we have had about 12 cases total including the 8 in the US, several of which were patients that were brought here rather than being treated in the field in Africa as they would have been in prior outbreaks. That is a far cry though from some world wide pandemic. Lassa Fever which is also a hemorrhagic fever like Ebola infects about 500,000 people in Africa each year and kills about 5,000 each year. Are we afraid of that? Do we quarantine for that? No, yet it infects a lot more people world wide than Ebola ever has. And again Ebola is not that fatal in the US when treated early. Of all the cases only 1 person has died, and he was infected outside of the US, and if that hospital in Dallas had been on the ball perhaps not even he would have died.

So what we have here is fear. Not medical science again. Fear.

Also if you were a nurse on those missions you would understand Ebola and how it was transmitted and understand why a quarantine right now is premature. It is not supported by any medical science or any reputable medical group that I am aware of in the US at this time.

Now I will grant the military has a readiness issue to consider. At least the Army does. Because of how army units are structured these days. But even that is a weak reason considering that most (like about 90%) of the troops being sent over there are just setting up field hospitals and associated plant and communication huts in cleared areas. They are not being exposed to the virus simply by being in theater. Only those few, and most of them are not military doctors or medical personnel they are civilian volunteers, who will staff the hospitals would have a chance of being infected. So only a tiny fraction of those sent over really need to even be considered for quarantine. It is just an overreaction to quarantine everyone. Again, I could list military readiness issues and concerns that are "valid" but the military spends billions of dollars overstaffing multiple communication hubs across the US "just in case" of a massive attack. Sure, if it ever happens we will be glad of that foresight, but in 70 years that adds up to a lot of money that could have gone elsewhere instead of to a threat than never materialized.

And I am not saying it was not worth it. From a military perspective it was money well spent to be sure. But it was also a fear reaction to a worst case scenario that never happened. You can be right and wrong sometimes at the exact same time. Or rather in this case do the wrong thing for the right reasons.

But that is the military side. We are talking about the civilian side of things. There is no military readiness issue to consider from the civilian side. So it really is doing the wrong thing for the wrong reason. If a person is not contagious quarantine is pointless and merely a fear reaction rather than a well thought out one.



just give up. there is no way these racist scumbags are going to listen to reason. they have been whipped into a racist furry by the media and anyone who tries to talk sense to them is an ass hole
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bernardwheelerjr wrote:

i am seriously starting to wonder if these people are racist scumbags that think this is an African disease and if we impose a travel ban and use a quarantine to discourage doctors and nurses from going over there they will git rid of all those Africans.


I don't think so, I think they are just scared.

I do believe though that ebola is massively overblown and that we don't need a quarantine.

Im not exactly well educated on this so if I said something wrong feel free to correct me.
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Some of us do understand what Ebola is capable of doing. Yes, we understand that it is transmitted through exposure to body fluid. Yes, we understand that there is an up to 21 day incubation period.

However, we also see that, as many people who have taken care of Ebola patients have contracted the disease despite taking proper precautions, preventing the possibility of transmitting something that we may already have is for the good of mankind. This is an action that a responsible adult would take.

I am all for stopping commercial flights to areas where the disease is not controlled. I have no problem with medical personnel taking private aircrafts to those areas, but allowing those same medical staff members to return to the U.S. on a commercial aircraft with a couple hundred people on board is not wise. What if they start showing symptoms mid-flight? They've now exposed everyone on that plane, and now the entire flight needs to be quarantined.

Unless someone wants to argue that every nurse and doctor who contracted the virus clearly did something wrong because they managed to become infected despite following protocol, perhaps it's time to argue that maybe we don't know everything about this virus that we claim to know. I highly doubt that so many competent medical personnel didn't properly decontaminate or that they all had tears in their protective gear. I think the best policy is for those who have worked with Ebola patients to quarantine themselves either at home or in a medical facility.

And to the person who asked if I'd like it if I had to stay home with the flu but still get paid, please become a politician because I would enjoy doing that very much.
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Posted 10/31/14 , edited 10/31/14

bernardwheelerjr wrote:

just give up. there is no way these racist scumbags are going to listen to reason. they have been whipped into a racist furry by the media and anyone who tries to talk sense to them is an ass hole


Not to bag on you here, but name calling does not help anyone's argument. Stereotyping does not help either. Fear is endemic to both liberals and conservatives. All I can do is reason with people, but others are free to accept it or reject it as they see fit. That does not make them racist or anything else though necessarily. Not to mention while the disease does come from West Africa, those primarily affected with it are White. Those most susceptible to being put into quarantine are white.

I am neither pro nor anti anything. I am just for the facts.

What I believe separates America from other countries is not that we do not make mistakes. Or do not act out of fear, and sometimes make hasty decisions we later come to regret. I do not know of any nation that does not have those moments. What separates America from other nations, what makes us great, is that we can have these conversations and, eventually, if necessary apologize for anything we might have done wrong. America is not adverse to saying sorry, we screwed up. That is what makes us a major superpower and why other countries trust us. Because when we screw up, we man up to it. Unlike some other countries I will not name but sound like bricks.

Apologizing for mistakes is not a weakness, it is a strength. It takes a strong and mature person to admit they were wrong. Just like mercy is not a weakness. It takes an incredibly strong person to let a threat go because they feel it was the right thing to do or because they know that person is not really a threat to them. Only bullies and those without real strength believe mercy or apologizing is for the weak because deep down they know they do not have that kind of strength to do it so they belittle it instead.

To be honest, I can understand people's fear. It is easy to give in to fear. That is what makes the Dark Side of Star Wars so compelling. It is easy to give in to fear because often it makes so much sense at the time. That is why looking at things clearly (not necessarily logically, but clearly) is important. Without emotion, the numbers the math the science, rather than the emotions.

I can claim to have learned a lot as a manager for a major company. But ultimately if I had to say I learned anything it is that you cannot manage to fear. When I first started I managed to my fears. Fear of not making plan, fear of team members screwing up, fear that something would go wrong if I was not here 24/7. And I almost went insane. But I learned to trust others, I learned to trust that if I trained my team right, they would respond. I learned that fear was not helping me, it simply kept me back. And once I freed myself of that fear, once I looked at things rationally, I stopped having problems. It is the same thing here.

Most people live a life of fear. Fear of losing their job. Fear of losing their family. Fear of their neighbor or some stranger. Fear of the unknown, tomorrow, the dark. It is difficult to get past that fear. And it affects everyone. Some people can make the jump and get over their fear, others cannot or choose not to. Which is sad to me. That does not make them bad people, it just makes them different. Nothing wrong with different. Without some fear, we might go charging off into a lava field for kicks and giggles. Fear does serve a purpose. But we have to use it to identify and mitigate risk, not let it rule us as it is now with the concept of quarantine of people who show no symptoms and are not yet contagious.

We need to be managing to the facts, not the fear. It is true, quarantine may one day be necessary. It is just that today is not that day. Nor is tomorrow or next week likely. Ever on this round of the outbreak really. But next year? 10 years from now? That is a different story. But by giving in to fear now, we limit ourselves in the future. Because quarantine is a last ditch measure. If we use it right off for the wrong reasons, eventually it will fail, and likely right when we need it most. Like over prescribing antibiotics for conditions that would have cleared up on their own with time and rest, but prescribed to calm a hypochondriac patient who demanded it. Sure, it might have worked, but it raises their defenses making antibiotics less useful in the future and possibly eventually they get a mutated version that is resistant to those antibiotics. By starting out with the big guns for no reason, you end up making things worse for yourself later in the future.

I just believe it is the same with a state or city wide quarantine right now. It is being driven by fear, not science. And thus potentially making things worse for us in the future.


Akage-chan wrote:

Some of us do understand what Ebola is capable of doing. Yes, we understand that it is transmitted through exposure to body fluid. Yes, we understand that there is an up to 21 day incubation period.

However, we also see that, as many people who have taken care of Ebola patients have contracted the disease despite taking proper precautions, preventing the possibility of transmitting something that we may already have is for the good of mankind. This is an action that a responsible adult would take.


Taking proper precautions does not mean one cannot make mistakes in the process. Which is what happened to those 2 nurses. Where and why those mistakes happened, it is not necessarily their fault. But it was a break in procedure that infected them, not a lack of them. Or if there were a lack it was because the hospital did not properly train or retrain them in proper procedure. If proper procedure was followed and executed they would not have been infected. It is not like Ebola is not studied every day in labs all over the world with few incidents. Also always attributed to a failure in procedure. Even the best make costly mistakes sometimes.

And those nurses were working with a patient in the end stages of Ebola, when they are the most contagious. It is difficult for the public to come into contact with someone in that condition because they are pretty bed ridden by the time they are. Look at the flu, by the time your temp spikes to 100 degrees all you want to do is lie in bed. Same with Ebola. By the time they become contagious, they likely need a lot of assistance just to get around, they are not freely riding subways or buses in that condition.

So if they do not have the disease or are not yet contagious because they might not have it at all, then there is little point to a quarantine.

Again, Ebola is not new. It has been known and been worked with for almost 40 years now. US doctors have been treating it for decades in Africa without a 21 day quarantine before. The risks today are no greater than that of the last outbreak really. It is just that this one is larger (although nowhere near the scale of most epidemics) so it gets more press.


I am all for stopping commercial flights to areas where the disease is not controlled. I have no problem with medical personnel taking private aircrafts to those areas, but allowing those same medical staff members to return to the U.S. on a commercial aircraft with a couple hundred people on board is not wise. What if they start showing symptoms mid-flight? They've now exposed everyone on that plane, and now the entire flight needs to be quarantined.


The problem is this is not practical. It only helps direct West Africa to US problems. What about all those West Africans who travel to other countries? They have the same risk of infecting those passengers who may then transfer in other countries and come to the US. Even checking passports will not help identify those passengers who were on a plane a week ago with someone from an infected country. It just is not practical to enforce an airline quarantine without stopping all flights into the US. And then what about the borders?

What is the point in spending millions of dollars and showing the world how afraid we are without any scientific backing when none of it appreciably lowers the risk factors? If a person is not contagious on a plane from West Africa to France, they are not contagious on a plane from West Africa to the US. Unless they are contagious, and in that state a person can barely move, there is no danger. And I think flight attendants can figure out if someone is that sick.


Unless someone wants to argue that every nurse and doctor who contracted the virus clearly did something wrong because they managed to become infected despite following protocol, perhaps it's time to argue that maybe we don't know everything about this virus that we claim to know. I highly doubt that so many competent medical personnel didn't properly decontaminate or that they all had tears in their protective gear. I think the best policy is for those who have worked with Ebola patients to quarantine themselves either at home or in a medical facility.

And to the person who asked if I'd like it if I had to stay home with the flu but still get paid, please become a politician because I would enjoy doing that very much.


Yes, I will say it because it is true. Pretty much all infections are due to an error somewhere in the protection process or due to not having adequate protection gear in the first place. Sometimes it is being in the wrong place at the wrong time without the right gear too. But if you are in a full Hazmat suit (and really try that in Africa in the open in the summer for a few minutes) and everything was followed and performed the way they should, then you will not get infected. Infections happen when dealing with late stage patients who are contagious and mistakes happen. Even the best health care workers make mistakes. But even that does not necessarily even mean they will be infected, just that they have a chance to be.

But except for those 2 nurses, all those infected were infected in Africa, so were all health care workers. In africa, protective gear means as little as a disposable gown and a face mask, sometimes a face shield if you are lucky. Those are not even minimum requirements in a infectious disease ward in the US. Of course, it is always a balance between gear and expense and the ability to function in the gear. Too much gear in Africa without air conditioning (and most places do not have it) will wear you out fast. Assuming you have access to the gear. Even the best can only try to mitigate their risk without the gear, and often that is not available in Africa.

But even so, only a small fraction of health care workers get infected each year. And it is not like this is the first year it has happened, health care workers from around the world have died to Ebola during the other outbreaks that have happened. It is just that this outbreak is bigger, so there are more infections. It does not make this strain of Ebola more contagious or change it somehow. It just happened to finally hit a city. Almost all infections in the cities were due to family members demanding to handle the infected corpses of the dead due to their funeral rites. Not to anything else, intentional infection really. It is actually pretty hard to get Ebola under normal circumstances. But when you insist on bribing officials to take back an infected corpse to hand wash and place hands on, well your risk goes up. But even so, 14,000 infections in a 3 country wide area housing tens of millions is not a high infection rate. People are quoting 10,000 infections a week world wide when even in Africa it barely tops that over the last 5 months.

If Ebola were that contagious, if it were that easy to spread, it would have crossed to globe many times over already. It is not that Ebola is not dangerous, but even simple precautions will generally keep anyone safe. There is no need currently to quarantine. In the future? Who can say, it is always possible. But again quarantine is a last ditch measure in general and should not be used simply out of fear but rather medical necessity. Until the medical community feels it is necessary or conditions just show it is quarantine is nothing more than a fear reaction.

And just randomly quarantining people does put a strain on local health care facilities. Dealing with people who are not infected, but are quarantined just because they might be, takes resources away from other things. Like the Flu season, and potentially slows care if someone outside of quarantine comes down with it that we did not know about. It lulls people into thinking something is being done when really it just wastes resources.

What people are doing now is self monitoring. People come back from Africa and they generally stay home and take their temperature 2 times a day and report into a medical facility each day to report. If they show a sign of fever they go to the hospital where they will likely be quarantined then and most importantly started on early treatment. Which is important. But the difference between this and quarantine is that they can still move about, albeit with as little outside contact as possible, but they can still go to the store, buy groceries and stuff as they want. Because they are not contagious so this poses no health threat.

Self Monitoring is prudent and what we are doing. Quarantine takes it to a much higher level, has no real purpose, and just wastes resources out of fear rather than the medical science. We should be going with what works and puts the least strain on the medical community and people in general rather than wasting resources out of fear.
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