This era vs that era...
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Posted 11/1/14 , edited 11/1/14
So I just finished suikoden 2 and xenogears, I'm also playing through ff9, I mssed these 3 for some reason.

But now I'm left thinking, since that era, where we got those, as well as secret of mana, suikoden 1, ff4 through to 10, chrono trigger, earthbound and tonnes more, what the hell went wrong?!

The new ffs are crap, suikoden died, tales plods along, does okay, DAO was okay, xenoblade or lost odyssey perhaps? It's so hard to think of RPGs at least of recent times that compare to the gems of that era, or is it? Are there any?!

It jus seems it's style over substance too often now...
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Posted 11/1/14 , edited 11/1/14
Well, I think part of the problem might be that eventually consumers began to demand higher resolution and frame rates more strongly than anything else. Another thing is that after X Square-Enix decided to expand into the MMO market with XI. Since the preceding FF has had a tendency to bleed into the one after it (at least from VII onward) XII feels quite a bit like an MMO. Again, they're just taking cues from what people are buying. Finally, I think a little bit of why the games of three console generations ago feel so much better for a lot of folks is because of nostalgia goggles.
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Posted 11/1/14

BlueOni wrote:

Well, I think part of the problem might be that eventually consumers began to demand higher resolution and frame rates more strongly than anything else. Another thing is that after X Square-Enix decided to expand into the MMO market with XI. Since the preceding FF has had a tendency to bleed into the one after it (at least from VII onward) XII feels quite a bit like an MMO. Again, they're just taking cues from what people are buying. Finally, I think a little bit of why the games of three console generations ago feel so much better for a lot of folks is because of nostalgia goggles.


I dunno about that nostalgia bit, lots of people say that, but I can replay secret of mana time and time again, to this day, so I'm not misremembering it fondly, I know it and its flaws, its low resolution, it's annoying run in circles till I get 100% charge etc, but I genuinely enjoy the game. I barely managed one play through of pretty fantasy corridor 13. No way could I ever get through that rpgonwheels again.

The bleed into bit is interesting, I'd never seen it like that, but it actually makes sense, I like ff8 the least, and that was mostly because of squall being a cloud with even more exaggerated versions of his already bad character flaws. Cloud bled into ff8 and became squall! That's really sad haha!
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Posted 11/4/14
I think nostalgia does play a bit into things, but games this or last gen seemed to just switch things up in the worst. Like with ff13 they made the game visually striking yes, but they filled it with so much content and information while at the same time stripping away a number of freedoms. This made it such a bloated and linier experience, and I was definitely uninterested with it. Heck I can't even remember the plot.

I also think by the time the genre hit the ps3 and xbox360 gen a lot of concepts had become cliché and over used. This probably lead to the decline in the genre that followed. That and the market moving more to fps games.

I also think when it comes to jrpgs, it is a lot more risky to put the games on the market over here now a days. Back then the rpg was on top of the game and the titles were just coming over one after another, then things shifted to other genres. Companies lost money, series were scraped, and others were left in their home country. Luckily for us there were companies like Bandai Namco who took a chance with titles like tales of Graces f and brought a series that was pretty much gone after Vesparia back to the states.

All and all it seems to come down to the market and how the cost affects a company. Many just choose to play it safe with the familiar and cater to numerous parties, instead of focusing on telling a story that is interesting and gets you invested. Quantity over quality I guess.
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Posted 11/4/14 , edited 11/4/14
Starting Note: Look at my each on the left of this there, I was not old enough to play or appreciate these types of games at the time. When I was ten, I played tons of JRPGs on the PS1 when I wasn't playing my gamecube. Of course, the only RPG games I knew were from that era, so my initial impressions towards those games were not affected by experiences with newer RPGs (because I didn't have any). I can say that I was a pretty good gamer and a pretty smart kid at ten, but as a kid I didn't critique over all the details of the games and was most likely easily impressed. Here's just my current opinion.

I agree that most of these older classics are praised nowadays are how revolutionary they were or how good they were at that time. Most people haven't replayed those games in ages and just go by their impressions of that game from when they played it all those years ago. A game was good back then, is it as good now? Can I compare an RPG now to something 15 years ago and that 15 year old one will be better? I recently played FF7 again when it came out for PC and all I can say is, it was a lot better when I played it as a kid.

BUT what I have interpreted from the question posed is whether or not there are RPGs today that transcend the expectations of players the way games like the older FF games blew past expectations in their respective era. Sigh, well one thing's for sure, it's much harder to get someone whose never played one of those legendary classics to actually fall in love with it all these years later. Developers take what's successful about those games and inject it into their new ones. All those plot twists, all those tropes, all those concepts have been done to death by now to the point where its become generic. Example: Half life 2 (not an RPG but it works here) was revolutionary and showed the world that linear FPS stories could provide compelling, head-scratching, and cinematic experiences. Ideas like that have since been overused and now games like Half Life 2 feel like single player campaigns straight out of Call of Duty to anyone whose never played them prior.

Then what prrican2985 said about financial problems. Devs have great ideas, they're not has oblivious as people make them out to be. But lack of funding or worries about profitability really, really, really hold back any new revolutionary concepts they have. Look at BioShock Infinite. Even though it sold like 8 million copies at that time, it took way too long and spent way too much money to make that Irrational Games had to close up shop. The game (which I personally love, BioShock's like my successor to Half Life) wouldn't have been as mind-blowing as it was if they cut back on time and money just to get it out quicker. It's pretty tragic. Now it's primarily indie game developers dishing out these unique games with new concepts partly because they don't have publishers clawing at their necks for results.

ANYWAY, games this era that are as awesome as those 90s and early 00s gems. Yes, DAO is pretty good but I can't call it legendary in comparison. Wow it's limited, but I guess I'm just going to have to say the Mass Effect franchise, the Witcher franchise, Xenoblade chronicles, Persona 4, and might as well include Dragon Age. I won't say anything about the surge of open-world powerhouses like Elder Scrolls and Fallout.

But two games in particular that I admire the hell out of, not necessarily with any legendary accolades or anything, are Ys: Memories of Celceta on the PSV and Valkyria Chronicles for PS3 (coming to PC).

My favorite of this era is Persona 4, if that still counts (came out 2008 I believe on PS2 and PS3).

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Posted 12/25/15 , edited 12/25/15
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