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What's NOT harassment?
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23 / M / Beyond The Wall
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Posted 11/3/14
While I agree, women do have it harder. But if guys started ignoring you I guarantee there will be some dumbass articles about it and some more feminazi bullshit
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21 / F / Fort Worth, Texas
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Posted 11/3/14
I can't really say much, I love attention, I put so much effort into my diet, workout, etc. Just to look a certain way.

Overly aggressive people can be quite intimidating, but I can't imagine girls dressing up to look attractive and then disliking the attention. I can't vouch for others, but I had to choose too much attention vs. none at all.

I'm sure 99% of females would choose too much. I hate it how no one is realistic nowadays.
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Posted 11/3/14

xDeadlyDollx wrote:


AmaraRin wrote:

It can. Even the best of intentions can show a persons true nature.

The biggest problem men think they are entitled to say crap like that to women and we are just supposed to smile and giggle. When we show we don't like the attention or clearly state we don't want it, that can get us killed.

As I stated before an actual complement is fine, but wording, tone of voice, posture, etc, plays a huge roll in if we take it or not. If you came up to me aggressively and said "Hey baby I like the dress, I think it would look better off you!" that is harassment. Now if you said "Excuse me, I hate to bother you, I just wanted to say you look stunning in that dress." I may or may not take it due to posture and tone of voice. If you don't look or sound threatening, I likely with say "thank you" and move along. If you are more aggressive I will likely not take it and get away as quick as I can because I know it will lead to unwanted attention.

See the difference?


Interesting.. And if a guy you find rather attractive comes up to you and makes advances, would you be less likely to feel threatened?

Attractive or not. Posture, tone of voice, wording, all of those are my keyes on telling if the person means me harm. But for the record, most guys who catcall me are attractive. So no I wouldn't feel less treatened.

Now for sake of interest let's take my boyfriend. He never once approached me, I approached him. Had he approached me I likely would have been nervous but open given he was a friend of one of my old friends. If at any point in time he became threatening I would have high tailed it. He never did and we are 6 years into a relationship, my deciding factor was he was never once changed in his tone of voice, posture or wording.
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Posted 11/3/14 , edited 11/3/14

GreatLordBalzak wrote:


xDeadlyDollx wrote:


AmaraRin wrote:

It can. Even the best of intentions can show a persons true nature.

The biggest problem men think they are entitled to say crap like that to women and we are just supposed to smile and giggle. When we show we don't like the attention or clearly state we don't want it, that can get us killed.

As I stated before an actual complement is fine, but wording, tone of voice, posture, etc, plays a huge roll in if we take it or not. If you came up to me aggressively and said "Hey baby I like the dress, I think it would look better off you!" that is harassment. Now if you said "Excuse me, I hate to bother you, I just wanted to say you look stunning in that dress." I may or may not take it due to posture and tone of voice. If you don't look or sound threatening, I likely with say "thank you" and move along. If you are more aggressive I will likely not take it and get away as quick as I can because I know it will lead to unwanted attention.

See the difference?


Interesting.. And if a guy you find rather attractive comes up to you and makes advances, would you be less likely to feel threatened?


It is in bad taste to lead with loaded questions. I agree with your stance but be careful to not go on the attack. Causing anger or frustration is unlikely to persuade anyone to see your point of view. I just don't want this thread derailed because I feel it can be constructive.


Translation for you Rin... give the forum some examples of what you consider threatening or aggressive (and what isn't)... this varies from person to person and many times intent can incorrectly be perceived. The line itself is blurry.


See my first post, I gave examples. Saying I look nice and leaving it at that fine, anything more harassment.
Posted 11/3/14

AmaraRin wrote:

Attractive or not. Posture, tone of voice, wording, all of those are my keyes on telling if the person means me harm. But for the record, most guys who catcall me are attractive. So no I wouldn't feel less treatened.

Now for sake of interest let's take my boyfriend. He never once approached me, I approached him. Had he approached me I likely would have been nervous but open given he was a friend of one of my old friends. If at any point in time he became threatening I would have high tailed it. He never did and we are 6 years into a relationship, my deciding factor was he was never once changed in his tone of voice, posture or wording.


Do you prefer to initiate contact with males? I mean, does that make you feel more comfortable?

Also, please explain in detail what is threatening to you. It's very subjective and I'm pretty sure my idea of threatening is nowhere near what your idea of it is...
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24 / M / Canada
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Posted 11/3/14
So I read that article. I think I can agree on the general points made. The presentation doesn't help it though.

Basically, don't go out and interact with random people on the street out of a sexual desire. I believe the phrase is: Think with your big head.

I was going to talk about the presentation, but it would probably just come across as whining, so no.

ps. I wish I could remember the proper usage of colons and semi-colons, but I'm too lazy to look it up.
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24 / F / Johnstown, PA, USA
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Posted 11/3/14
The link is simultaneously scary and insulting. There're quite a few presumptions in it (like the BS about women not telling other women to smile), and how the author words it does make it sound pretty paranoid. It's worded very aggressively, too. To me, it reads more like an angry tangent than a thought-out article. The entire atmosphere of the article would change if we get someone with a level head to rework it. A lot of what constitutes as harassment varies according to the individual perceptions of the people who receive the attention, which I wish the author had kept in mind. For example, despite the writer's insistence, I don't take offence to "god bless," and will certainly not take it as harassment.
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Posted 11/3/14

xDeadlyDollx wrote:


AmaraRin wrote:

Attractive or not. Posture, tone of voice, wording, all of those are my keyes on telling if the person means me harm. But for the record, most guys who catcall me are attractive. So no I wouldn't feel less treatened.

Now for sake of interest let's take my boyfriend. He never once approached me, I approached him. Had he approached me I likely would have been nervous but open given he was a friend of one of my old friends. If at any point in time he became threatening I would have high tailed it. He never did and we are 6 years into a relationship, my deciding factor was he was never once changed in his tone of voice, posture or wording.


Do you prefer to initiate contact with males? I mean, does that make you feel more comfortable?

Also, please explain in detail what is threatening to you. It's very subjective and I'm pretty sure my idea of threatening is nowhere near what your idea of it is...


No. I prefer to be left alone, but in social settings (work, friend's party, etc) I do prefer to initiate contact with people in general, not just men. That way I get a clearer view of the person. I am distrustful by nature due to the way i grew up.

Also for me threatening would be sudden aggressive posture changes like getting in my personal space, bumping up against me, randomly touching me, any type of movement that is far to close to my face, or neck, also coming up to me from behind is a good way to make me feel threatened.

Any changes in tone. If you go from being interested in something being said to suddenly sexual that is a good indication you aren't interested in the conversation. Like take the sentience "I never said she took the money." depending on which word is stressed, changes the whole tone of the sentence. It can be said 7 ways and have 7 different meanings.

Wording also can fall in with the tone of voice, because the moment your tone changes your words do too. Minute changes in wording isn't always picked up on but if you know what to look for like stressing of a word you can tell a lot of a person's intentions.
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20 / M / California
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Posted 11/3/14
Well, I can see how number 5 and 6 can be considered harassment, but it all depends on the level of the situation. But some are just absurd. And I don't why the author decided to use only "GOD bless you" instead of "Bless you". Because I hardly hear anyone say "God bless you." It's more of just "Bless you."

Giving complements I find stupid as a harassment. There are plenty of girls out there that get like to be complimented. It's just an act of kindness especially when you point out someone's positives. Not negatives because who wants to focus on the negative points? And it doesn't have to be just only specific to girls, guys like to be complimented. But from my experience, it's odd trying to accept it and in return, compliment them back to be kind.
Posted 11/3/14

AmaraRin wrote:

No. I prefer to be left alone, but in social settings (work, friend's party, etc) I do prefer to initiate contact with people in general, not just men. That way I get a clearer view of the person. I am distrustful by nature due to the way i grew up.

Also for me threatening would be sudden aggressive posture changes like getting in my personal space, bumping up against me, randomly touching me, any type of movement that is far to close to my face, or neck, also coming up to me from behind is a good way to make me feel threatened.

Any changes in tone. If you go from being interested in something being said to suddenly sexual that is a good indication you aren't interested in the conversation. Like take the sentience "I never said she took the money." depending on which word is stressed, changes the whole tone of the sentence. It can be said 7 ways and have 7 different meanings.

Wording also can fall in with the tone of voice, because the moment your tone changes your words do too. Minute changes in wording isn't always picked up on but if you know what to look for like stressing of a word you can tell a lot of a person's intentions.


I see now. Although I would like to point out that some people who are not so socially adept, or who suffer from certain Autism Spectrum Disorders, may act in a way you deem threatening though they mean you absolutely no harm. I once worked with a guy who had Asperger's Syndrome and he'd always come up real close to me and try to engage me in conversations, often multiple times during our shift trying to tell me the same thing over and over and over again. He also tends to be rather loud, overexcited, and sometimes obnoxious. Of course, at first I found it pretty uncomfortable, but after the first interaction I had with him, I realized he was no threat. He was simply like that and I learned to adapt by being stern with him and telling him off whenever I needed to. I guess what I'm trying to say is, though I understand that due to your personal background, you're distrustful and easily threatened, I think it's not very healthy to always be in that mindset. It helps to be a little be more observant and understanding of others.
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Posted 11/4/14
Catcalling isn't harassment, annoying sure, but harassment, nope. You can't sue someone for catcalling.(but I'm sure you can try) People still have their amendments and rights, and that means freedom of speech.

So while I agree it's annoying or a bother, I can't agree with it being harassment.

Seriously I've never catcalled anyone, hell I get shit from cars driving by, even got pelted by a water balloon, you want illegal, that's illegal.(really hurt by the way, physically, felt kinda shitty after too)
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Posted 11/4/14 , edited 11/4/14
I define harassment as any behavior that is continued even after being told to stop. The point is that many behaviors are benign, but they can make people uncomfortable and should be disengaged once you know it makes the person uncomfortable. If a behavior is so severe that one should not even need a warning, then it isn't harassment but rather a violation from the start. The point of policing harassment is to allow a gray area so that not everything must be classified under completely acceptable or completely unacceptable.

Unfortunately the word "harassment" seems to be co-opted. Now it is not required to actually tell someone to stop. This essentially means that entering a gray area is no different than doing something explicitly prohibited. It's much better to outright ban a behavior than to leave it in a state where one party can arbitrarily decide whether it was wrong or not. At the same time, most people want there to exist a gray area than to be walking on eggshells indefinitely. Thus we don't end up with a clear black and white, but rather a pseudo-gray area that is really a black area.



AmaraRin wrote:

Here is my take as a plus size woman who gets harrassed like that almost daily. Males need to stop thinking they are entitled to everything. Catcalling is part of that entitlement.

I am fine if you say I look stunning in the outfit I am wearing, but then back off. Actual complements are fine, catcalling isn't.

I do not need to smile at someone because they think I should, I do not need to know what you want to do with my body, butt, boobs, etc. I do not need to be hassled trying to get from point A to B, I do not at all need some dude thinking it is fine to hassle me while I am in the middle of a phone call because he thinks it is fake so I can ignore him.

Until men learn the world doesn't bow to them, a lot of this will be labeled as harassment because that is what it is becoming.


The one who is entitled is not the men, but you. You're demanding that they change their behavior simply for your own convenience without honestly considering why they do what they do.

In general men have to approach women and women get approached. It can be somewhat of a self perpetuating rule because if men don't get approached then they must approach women, and if women get approached it is not as necessary to leave their comfort zone to approach men. It is very easy to be critical of someone who is doing something you've never had to do yourself.

Catcalling is a very subjective term. Everyone draws the line at a different place. The men who approach women whom they don't know on the street do so because sometimes it works. The same concept applies to someone who is begging for money on the street. The beggar does not necessarily feel entitled to money, they are just exercising their freedom to beg.
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Posted 11/4/14
walking with your eyes closed.
If you stare at someone it can be considered harassment.
Walk trying to avoid a person like they have plague
don't talk about people
don't think about people
just don't interact with anybody.
Stay in a deep dark basement and you can't harass anyone!
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Posted 11/4/14
That Video cannot be taken seriously in Answering it in either way as either HARASSMENT OR NOT HARASSMENT...Why not? Because it wasn't done "true blue". It was basically fabricated; Not in saying what You're seeing is fake, but this Woman, Miss Roberts, well I've done a little bit of scrounging around the Net regarding the Video that was made...The Photographer, while He kept His Name private...I can tell that He is a well built Man. So if this is to be taken seriously, Miss Roberts...DOG knows, I don't want ANY harm to come to Her, She needs to walk with this Camera Herself. Now, all that may be well and good. But THEN I discovered something EVEN MORE alarming.

All You see is African-Americans approaching Her in this Video. Well, You know Us White People? Us White folks who mysteriously never even dared approach this Lady? Well, it's sad...ESPECIALLY if this was done and purported "as according to design", BUT...Why, Miss Roberts and Cameraman, did You CUT OUT THE WHITE PEOPLE WHO APPROACHED AND SPOKE TO YOU away from the ENTIRE completion of this Film????

http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2014/11/01/360422087/hollaback-video-calls-out-catcallers-but-cuts-out-white-men

That's sickening. Are You a Racist, Miss Roberts and Cameraman? I bet that You wouldn't actually give Me an answer if I was speaking DIRECTLY to You right now. And that's more and worse than LOW...That's cowardice. But You sure didn't show or let on any observable cowardice on this sham of a Film the two of You put together. And just let Me say before I finish...In NO WAY, WHATSOEVER am I blasting this Lady OR Her Cameraman "Body-Guard". In NO WAY am I reducing or trying to minimize the alleged Sexual Abuse that She has suffered in Her past. The People who did those things to Her ARE of Guilt, and SHOULD be held up as Guilty of Sexual Assault, or for whichever type of Infraction a Judge and Jury decide upon that it was. But this Video, while it may garner some positive attention toward Sexual Harassment and general Harassment as it stands...And guess what? I'm ALL for that! I hope Whoever that decides to make any type of Positive acts in the wake of whichever or whatever type enlightenment this Film has brought to them, get those things all the attention they can and all the change that comes from it...GREAT! But, this Video is ridiculous. I'm sorry. It's been put together in whichever way that Miss Roberts WANTS it to be seen and viewed. You think White Folks are ANY less lascivious or capable of harassment; In ANY form or fashion...Or ANY OTHER "Crime" for that matter?WHENEVER and/or WHEREVER that it could possibly happen, in Public OR Private? To suggest this finding in ANY type extent...It's sickening.

Thanks for Reading, and again this was NOT meant to bash or blast ANYONE...The Lady and Her Cameraman, or Your Grandmother. So please don't suggest that I was in ANY way attempting to be Offensive.
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Posted 11/4/14

xDeadlyDollx wrote:


AmaraRin wrote:

No. I prefer to be left alone, but in social settings (work, friend's party, etc) I do prefer to initiate contact with people in general, not just men. That way I get a clearer view of the person. I am distrustful by nature due to the way i grew up.

Also for me threatening would be sudden aggressive posture changes like getting in my personal space, bumping up against me, randomly touching me, any type of movement that is far to close to my face, or neck, also coming up to me from behind is a good way to make me feel threatened.

Any changes in tone. If you go from being interested in something being said to suddenly sexual that is a good indication you aren't interested in the conversation. Like take the sentience "I never said she took the money." depending on which word is stressed, changes the whole tone of the sentence. It can be said 7 ways and have 7 different meanings.

Wording also can fall in with the tone of voice, because the moment your tone changes your words do too. Minute changes in wording isn't always picked up on but if you know what to look for like stressing of a word you can tell a lot of a person's intentions.


I see now. Although I would like to point out that some people who are not so socially adept, or who suffer from certain Autism Spectrum Disorders, may act in a way you deem threatening though they mean you absolutely no harm. I once worked with a guy who had Asperger's Syndrome and he'd always come up real close to me and try to engage me in conversations, often multiple times during our shift trying to tell me the same thing over and over and over again. He also tends to be rather loud, overexcited, and sometimes obnoxious. Of course, at first I found it pretty uncomfortable, but after the first interaction I had with him, I realized he was no threat. He was simply like that and I learned to adapt by being stern with him and telling him off whenever I needed to. I guess what I'm trying to say is, though I understand that due to your personal background, you're distrustful and easily threatened, I think it's not very healthy to always be in that mindset. It helps to be a little be more observant and understanding of others.


Using a disorder as an excuse is pathetic. People with said disorders can learn not to do that. But to pin their behavior on a disorder and go "well they can't change the way they are" is very pathetic.
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