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Why is the ISIL/IS not recognized as a state? Why do we call them Terrorists?
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26 / M / Brisbane, Australia
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Posted 11/4/14 , edited 11/4/14
I have done small amounts of research. As well as historical research into the political events of the area.

My question is...
Why do most countries reject the Islamic State as a State?
Why do we label them terrorists?

Does the US have a justified reason for involvement?
They didn't have a reason to be in Iraq in the first place.

People have been predicting a war with Syria for quite a while.
Although Syria had tried to keep relations healthy with the US.
What ended up happening was a revolution that conveniently placed an enemy in power.
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29 / M
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Posted 11/4/14 , edited 11/4/14
ISIS is violently trying to recreate established borders. It is not that they are wrong or right, so we have to look at things amorally.

The US is violently involved in the Middle East.

The world hates violence.

The world loves the status quo.

The status quo is dependent upon cheap oil.

The US loves cheap oil.

The cheapest oil comes from the lowest asking price.

The lowest asking price will be upheld via US violence in the Middle East, which the world hates.

Now that's a damn proof.
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27 / M
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Posted 11/4/14 , edited 11/4/14
Why do we call them terrorists. Because they go around killing people, much like Mohammed did... so it's in line with their religion. People like that are better off killed.
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29 / M
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Posted 11/4/14

MysticGon wrote:

Why do we call them terrorists. Because they go around killing people, much like Mohammed did... so it's in line with their religion. People like that are better off killed.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I'm sorry, that just came out of me.
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21 / F / Los Angeles
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Posted 11/5/14
If you take a group of people that calls themselves "ISIS" who like to blast public footage of mass graves of people being killed and tossed in a hole what the hell would you call them

>_>


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26 / M / Pandemonium
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Posted 11/5/14

morechunch wrote:


MysticGon wrote:

Why do we call them terrorists. Because they go around killing people, much like Mohammed did... so it's in line with their religion. People like that are better off killed.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I'm sorry, that just came out of me.


Is what he's saying wrong?
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33 / M / Sydney, Australia
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Posted 11/5/14 , edited 11/5/14
What he's doing is talking out of his anus. He has no idea about Islam.


On topic:

First, let's talk about Islam and how it relates. Islam is one of the five major religions in the world(Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, and Hinduism), three of which are Abrahamic (Judaism came from the teachings of Abraham. Christianity and Islam are both offshoots of those teachings).

These religions have all kinds of factionalism and schisms in their history. This leads to different sub-types in a religion. For example, the two main types of Christianity are Catholicism and Protestantism. From there you can divide up into smaller and smaller groups, most of which have very small differences between them. They all fall under the same religion, but there is sometimes factional infighting. For example, Catholics and Protestants went to war in Ireland and it was awful for everyone involved (Look up the IRA on Wikipedia).

Islam is similar to Christianity in that there are two major factions: The Sunni and the Shia. ISIL/ISIS are a faction of Sunni Islam who say that the religion is governed by their Caliph (Who is kind of like the Catholic pope), but nobody else recognises their Caliph. Essentially they are trying to push for their 'brand' of Islam to become the only one. They started this in the late 1990's by joining several extremist groups into a single force. From there they have silenced or killed practically anyone who disagreed with them (ie. the majority of Muslims and all of the Shia).

Theoretically, a Caliphate is a state under the supreme ruler called the Caliph. This means that once a Caliph is named and accepted, he rules the religious, legal and social rules that all Muslim people live under. In practice, that doesn't work. Not every Muslim believes the same thing, just like not every Christian does. So, this leads to conflict. The conflict is especially bad because the Sunni of ISIS are members of the Wahhabi movement. This makes them exceptionally rigid in their faith. The Christian equivalent might be something like is Westborough Baptists were an army and not a single family. These people are willing to go to any means to make their version of the religion be the 'correct' one.

So what we have is a group of ultra conservative people who are willing to do literally anything to stop anyone living differently to how they say. They have made up a fake country, installed a fake leader and told anyone who argues that they will die. They have taken the world's second largest religion hostage and used some very sneaky political stunts (much like the Nazi party before WW2) to stir feverish devotion from people who are desperate to find something to believe in.

The group regularly commits incredible human rights abuses and is proud of the fact that they are committing war crimes daily. They feel justified in this because their fake leader and very one-sided reading of their religious text tells them that it's ok. We don't recognise their statehood because they haven't shown themselves to be a state in any real way. They don't govern, they have no interest in being international citizens, they mask power-mongering under a false veil of religion, and they use brute force to silence any and all opposition.
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Posted 11/5/14 , edited 11/5/14
Why aren't they recognized as a state? For the same reason you can't declare your property lines to be the boundaries of the sovereign territory of the Republic of Daniel with any credibility. It's also the same reason "Novorossiya" is invalid, by the way.
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26 / M / Pandemonium
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Posted 11/5/14

KurisuSensei wrote:



That's all well and good. But that doesn't really disprove what MysticGon said...
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33 / M / Sydney, Australia
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Posted 11/5/14
Mohammad didn't just go around killing people, as he claims. The religion doesn't give followers free run to indiscriminantly murder, and the idea that we should be killing people we dislike is exactly the thing they are doing.

So, what part of his complete ignorance and irrational fear of Islam should I be disproving?
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26 / M / Pandemonium
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Posted 11/5/14 , edited 11/5/14

KurisuSensei wrote:

Mohammad didn't just go around killing people, as he claims. The religion doesn't give followers free run to indiscriminantly murder, and the idea that we should be killing people we dislike is exactly the thing they are doing.

So, what part of his complete ignorance and irrational fear of Islam should I be disproving?


Who said anything about fear?
Sure, islam doesn't give free reigns to kill just anyone, but it DOES encourate the killing of many. Jews, apostates, homosexuals, blasphemers, adulterers, etc.

The idea that we shouldn't kill people we dislike -- now that I agree with.
But then also keep in mind that in case of ISIL, it's not simply a matter of "not liking" them. They're people who kill innocent people. Who kill anyone who disagree with them.
Now, I'm not saying that we SHOULD kill the members of ISIL. Just saying that there's a difference between ISIL and people we just don't like.
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Posted 11/5/14

Syndicaidramon wrote:



Is what he's saying wrong?
Because the question he asked only required the definition of terrorists.
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29 / M
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Posted 11/5/14

Syndicaidramon wrote:


morechunch wrote:


MysticGon wrote:

Why do we call them terrorists. Because they go around killing people, much like Mohammed did... so it's in line with their religion. People like that are better off killed.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I'm sorry, that just came out of me.


Is what he's saying wrong?


It is an extremely contradictory point. What was basically said is "killing is wrong, we should kill them. Also, religion."

In the end, they are statements loosely equating the religion of Islam to killing and that people deserve to die because of it.

This opinion is very funny to me. Can you not see the inherent contradictions? Can you not feel the total emptiness, the real void created by these statements?

Yes, I believe it is wrong.
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47 / M / Пенсильвания, США
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Posted 11/5/14
Actually, recognizing them as a state would give them legitimacy in their efforts. Plus keep in mind that this nonsense is over a century in the making, the British Empire stirred up the hornet's nest over there post WW1 by attempting to create "nations" on the map by slapping rival territories together so they'd keep fighting, and it's just gotten worse and worse ever since.
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M / Tralfamadore
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Posted 11/5/14
ISIS is an extremely violent group, killing anyone who doesn't agree to convert to their aberrant version of Islam and some who do agree. It's sort of kill'em all and let Allah sort them out, So you don't want them as neighbours.
Now as to why the West labels them terrorists is a bit more of a stretch as Western governments have cosy'd up supported, armed and defended groups/governments every bit as nasty as ISIS.
Could be they'd been fine if they said they wanted to be armed against the Syrian government,(which is supported by Russia), please give us guns grenades etc. That would appear then to be a proxy battle with the Russians.
But these guys had to be independent weren't in the West's pocket, so their bad guys.
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