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Post Reply Should an unborn Fetus Be Considered A Person?
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17 / M / Ireland
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Posted 11/5/14
It is a very big grey area, leaning towards no but ultimately on the fence. I think this should be in extended discussion.
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25 / M / Fenix, AZ
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Posted 11/5/14 , edited 12/26/14




Abortion was created as a solution, but has turned into a problem. I'm not going to label myself as one thing or the other, SOMETIMES abortion can be beneficial and SOMETIMES it's plain selfishness of the mother.

My thoughts are that unless the baby will have complications or cause complications for the mother, or the mother is a victim of rape etc. then the baby has a right to life. If the mother doesn't want the child then she can give it up AFTER birth not before.
Posted 11/5/14 , edited 12/26/14

rockadilla wrote:





Abortion was created as a solution, but has turned into a problem. I'm not going to label myself as one thing or the other, SOMETIMES abortion can be beneficial and SOMETIMES it's plain selfishness of the mother.

My thoughts are that unless the baby will have complications or cause complications for the mother, or the mother is a victim of rape etc. then the baby has a right to life. If the mother doesn't want the child then she can give it up AFTER birth not before.


Why rape? I am just wondering. I am a proponent of abortion, but I don't understand the rape thing. Pregnancy is quite rare, as afterwards, if the rape was reported, a woman is usually given a morning after pill that basically cleans out the uterus or something. The baby wasn't responsible, and does the reason really matter? She doesn't want the baby one way or the other, and certainly is not going to take care of it. Doesn't he have a right to life to regardless of the circumstances of his own conception?

Just because someone was wronged in the past doesn't mean they could go and shoot the perpetrator in vengeance, if you get what I am saying.
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16 / F / Connecticut
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Posted 11/5/14 , edited 12/26/14
Personally, I think abortion is wrong. It's pretty much murder to me. Killing someone is killing someone no matter the age. I believe people should take responsibility for their actions and just have the kid. I know life isn't that simple, but it's not really ok to not let someone have the chance to live. Of course, I'm sure there are some exceptions.
Posted 11/5/14
Will they be able to vote too?
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28 / F / Jasmine Dragon
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Posted 11/5/14
People are discussing abortion for obvious reasons, but this has impacts that stretch way beyond just abortion. For these other impacts, claiming that an unborn potential-to-be-human is a person has serious, problematic consequences.

Bobland brought up the important point that it fails to follow the definition of a living organism, and it must be a living organism to be a person. Biology defines "living organism" for a reason: if you don't, things get messy. A human being is likewise defined for reasons to avoid mess. I'm going to give you some of the mess.

Let us assume that an unborn zygote/embryo/fetus is a person (I'm including all stages of development because some of the responses I'm seeing are not differentiating between these stages). In this case, what has occurred when:
1) A chimera develops? (A post-birth-person with multiple different sets of DNA due to being created by multiple fertilized eggs; it started as multiple "people" and turned into one). Does this chimera get multiple votes because it is multiple people in a single body? Or is this chimera both the murderer and murder victim(s)? There is usually a "dominant" person - that is, most of organs and tissues came from one set of DNA, and the other set got caught up in the quicker-developing fetus, so murderer/victim is very applicable to the process.
2) The mother dies during or prior to child birth? Is it a murderer for events that it caused during/prior to its own birth?
3) The umbilical cord wraps around the fetus in the womb? Should it be put under 72 hour watch, and receive later outpatient treatment, for attempted suicide? Should the mother be charged for negligence?
4) Identical twins develop? By a pre-birth definition, it was one person... then it became two people... Is this identity theft? Identity fraud? Which is the thief and which the victim (since neither will be the "dominant" one), or are they both guilty of fraud? Should they only get one vote between them? Does only one get personhood even after birth?
5) Twins (identical or fraternal) develop, but one becomes a stillborn and one does not? Do you have to investigate the survivor for murder?

It gets messy. While a good many people want to ban/limit abortion (and a good many do not), attempting to limit it via "personhood" is incredibly foolish. Those who want to ban/limit abortion should stick with straightforward attempts to ban/limit abortion.
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20 / M / CA
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Posted 11/5/14
Man the title reminds me of a Speech and Debate Topic.
You gotta think about it on a religious perceptive, there are some that consider them people and some that don't
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Posted 11/5/14 , edited 11/7/14

rockadilla wrote:





Abortion was created as a solution, but has turned into a problem. I'm not going to label myself as one thing or the other, SOMETIMES abortion can be beneficial and SOMETIMES it's plain selfishness of the mother.

My thoughts are that unless the baby will have complications or cause complications for the mother, or the mother is a victim of rape etc. then the baby has a right to life. If the mother doesn't want the child then she can give it up AFTER birth not before.


The problem I have with forcing every pregnancy to be carried to term is that they all carry a risk of death to the mother. Sure we've gotten better at maternity birth care that has reduced the risks a lot but that risk is always there. Full pregnancy means going through the whole body change and labour. Since that is the case a woman should be able to make choices according to her individual circumstances.

We do have contraception but there are cases where it has failed or been used incorrectly. Some don't have good access to contraception. Then there's rape and no not every rape gets the chance of using plan B contraception since reporting doesn't always happen directly after assault. Then there's those who had been told that their fertility is low or non existent so they didn't see the need for contraception and got surprised. Some have sex before they were ready due to being pressurized into it and bullied into not using contraception. Good comprehensive sex education could reduce this sort of thing sharply.

Posted 11/5/14 , edited 12/26/14
Of course. Mathematically at least.

Abortion is giving the right of assassination. And I approve of it.
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22 / M / Sol
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Posted 11/5/14
I think this debate is a example of a "true" grey area. What is determined to be "right" or "wrong" will very vastly from person to person. As a guy I don't really believe I have the right to have an opionion on the matter. However I believe it depends heavily on if you believe the future is set in stone or in flux. For example by aborting a fetus you are ending a posssible future of a human being, but if the future is already determined than the fetus was doomed to die and its' supposed future never existed.
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18 / M / New York City, Ne...
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Posted 11/5/14 , edited 12/26/14
I am completely against giving personhood status to fetuses. I dislike the government's and organized religions' attempts to control a person's body. Personally, I think laws should only apply to inter-human interactions. Since a fetus is still part of a woman's body, the woman should be able to do as she pleases. Although late abortions sort of bother me, it's not to the extent of crossing any of my moral beliefs. It just seems as if all that physical burden was a waste of time, energy, and care.

But I agree with part of what GayAsianBoy wrote regarding the killing of a fetus in a particular case


GayAsianBoy wrote:

My opinion is that people should get charged for murder if the woman wasn't the one who decided to terminate it.


Posted 11/5/14

WAKEandBAKE420 wrote:

But I agree with part of what GayAsianBoy wrote regarding the killing of a fetus in a particular case


GayAsianBoy wrote:

My opinion is that people should get charged for murder if the woman wasn't the one who decided to terminate it.




Unless it's an alien from Alien on that belly.
Posted 11/5/14

Riesel wrote:

Of course. Mathematically at least.

Abortion is giving the right of assassination. And I approve of it.


I don't think you're using that word correctly. Assassination is killing for political purposes, and I don't know of any instances of politically motivated abortions.
Posted 11/5/14 , edited 11/5/14

bravostribe1015 wrote:


Riesel wrote:

Of course. Mathematically at least.

Abortion is giving the right of assassination. And I approve of it.


I don't think you're using that word correctly. Assassination is killing for political purposes, and I don't know of any instances of politically motivated abortions.


I knew someone exactly like you on ANN who was also pedantic. But your locations don't match.

Nope. That's not the scope of assassinations. You have personal and business applications left out of the loop.
Posted 11/5/14

Riesel wrote:


bravostribe1015 wrote:


Riesel wrote:

Of course. Mathematically at least.

Abortion is giving the right of assassination. And I approve of it.


I don't think you're using that word correctly. Assassination is killing for political purposes, and I don't know of any instances of politically motivated abortions.


I knew someone exactly like you on ANN who was also pedantic. But your locations don't match.

Nope. That's not the scope of assassinations. You have personal and business applications left out of the loop.


A result from my time on ESPN's forums and the normally combative discussions that went on there. I also write for a living, so I have a tendency to obsess over the details.

I don't want you to get the wrong impression. I was just having a little fun.
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