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U.S. Immigration issues
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Posted 11/10/14

Genbu89 wrote:


xNuSeNsE wrote:

Immigrants are not a problem.... period! We are all human and borders are just imaginary lines drawn on a map.

Anyone on american soil who is not a native american is basically an illegal immigrant, if that is how you choose to look at things.

This is the real problem -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM&list=LLck50iEUF3Bdk4VCEji-T1Q&index=3


We should all be thinking about how to help each other out of this economical mess, not who is an immigrant and who is not.


Hey now, stop trying to distract people with more far-reaching issues!


I'm not distracting anyone, i'm just showing them the truth. The people at the top of them graphs are the ones distracting you with nonsense like illegal immigrants being the problem.

It's part of the same issue. People are looking at it from a economic stand point and that information proves that to be pointless.

Inequality like that is rife the world over and worse in other countries, so people try to move to other countries for a better life.
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Posted 11/10/14

xNuSeNsE wrote:

Immigrants are not a problem.... period! We are all human and borders are just imaginary lines drawn on a map.

Anyone on american soil who is not a native american is basically an illegal immigrant, if that is how you choose to look at things.

This is the real problem -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM&list=LLck50iEUF3Bdk4VCEji-T1Q&index=3


We should all be thinking about how to help each other out of this economical mess, not who is an immigrant and who is not.


Yeah the reason Detroit was amazing 50 years ago and looks like a ghetto now is because of all the 'Wealth Inequality'
Posted 11/10/14 , edited 11/10/14

Dropplet wrote:

I'm sorry but if they want in then they should do it legally. My grandparents immigrated from Argentina back in a time where the government was really really bad. They came here legally and when they got here they tried their darn hardest to fit in. They did not know one ounce of English so they read the newspapers and listened to the radio to learn and survive in this country. Like it's not fair to them that illegal immigrants come to the us and have anchor babies so they get government assistance like food stamps and public housing. If they want to live in this country fine... do it right though and don't live off the government especially if you don't want to even attempt English. I really don't want to pay for them and it's an insult to my family.


I kind of agree and disagree. I bet if your grandparents came here illegally you wouldn't be saying the same thing.

Don't judge someone if you haven't walked in their shoes.

But I agree about the babies. People should try to better themselves first and then form a family! there are many ways they can protect themselves to avoid getting pregnant! so I believe people should be more responsible in that aspect and not because of the government since the government is corrupted... but because of the children who are born and come here only to suffer because their parents don't have a good education or are being irresponsible...this goes to all immigrants and US citizens. Oh and it has been proven that white citizens are the #1 in having assistance with food stamps and housing...followed by African Americans.

Why can't America be like Europe? Europeans can go anywhere they want or so I heard. I have french friends who decided to live in England and they didn't have to worry about immigration...they can live anywhere in Europe and I think that's so cool.

Also, I noticed in this thread that many people only refer to Mexicans as immigrants...we have immigrants from everywhere: Canada, Africa, Asia and even Europe...so Mexicans or Hispanics are not the only ones but I never hear anyone complaining about white immigrants coming here, which is sad and shows that racism still exists...

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Posted 11/10/14

kirika202 wrote:


Dropplet wrote:

I'm sorry but if they want in then they should do it legally. My grandparents immigrated from Argentina back in a time where the government was really really bad. They came here legally and when they got here they tried their darn hardest to fit in. They did not know one ounce of English so they read the newspapers and listened to the radio to learn and survive in this country. Like it's not fair to them that illegal immigrants come to the us and have anchor babies so they get government assistance like food stamps and public housing. If they want to live in this country fine... do it right though and don't live off the government especially if you don't want to even attempt English. I really don't want to pay for them and it's an insult to my family.


I kind of agree and disagree. I bet if your grandparents came here illegally you wouldn't be saying the same thing.

Don't judge someone if you haven't walked in their shoes.

But I agree about the babies. People should try to better themselves first and then form a family! there are many ways they can protect themselves to avoid getting pregnant! so I believe people should be more responsible in that aspect and not because of the government since the government is corrupted... but because of the children who are born and come here only to suffer because their parents don't have a good education or are being irresponsible...this goes to all immigrants and US citizens. Oh and it has been proven that white citizens are the #1 in having assistance with food stamps and housing...followed by African Americans.

Why can't America be like Europe? Europeans can go anywhere they want or so I heard. I have french friends who decided to live in England and they didn't have to worry about immigration...they can live anywhere in Europe and I think that's so cool.

Also, I noticed in this thread that many people only refer to Mexicans as immigrants...we have immigrants from everywhere: Canada, Africa, Asia and even Europe...so Mexicans or Hispanics are not the only ones but I never hear anyone complaining about white immigrants coming here, which is sad and shows that racism still exists...



US does have that. People from any of the 51 states can travel and live in another state if they so choose in the US.
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Posted 11/10/14 , edited 11/10/14

xNuSeNsE wrote:
..so people try to move to other countries for a better life.


But this is the problem. Instead of the people of that country standing up and attempting to fix the problem, they only further perpetuate it by moving away. The only way to fix the issue is to stay in that country, organize its people, and fix that problem. And it will probably require many individuals making the ultimate sacrifice. But that's how things change; The poor citizens of France organized and overthrew the French monarchy in the 18th century, and the Americans revolted against unfair British taxation during the same era as well. The majority of these people did not say "Things are bad, let's go live in _____". This was their country and they were willing to fight and die for it.

That is the problem today. The majority of people who are coming to the U.S. illegally are not willing to do this. I don't see Filipinos organizing to overthrow their government in order to wipe out the corruption. Nor do the poor living in rural China stand up against the communist regime and demand a fairer form of government. The Afganis and Pakistanis also refuse to wipe out terrorism and instead decide to take boats to Australia to immigrate illegally.

Instead of the deferre action stupidity, if the young illegals in the U.S. want to become legalized, join the military as thousands of other people in their same situation have done and have eventually become US citizens. I'm all for granting citizenship for those who see combat and are willing to fight and die for this country.

Posted 11/10/14 , edited 11/10/14

tkayt wrote:


US does have that. People from any of the 51 states can travel and live in another state if they so choose in the US.


I don't know if you're just joking or...

I said America and I was talking about traveling and living in other countries, not states. America is a continent, not a country. Europe is a continent. Hence the comparison...America= Canada, US, Mexico, all central america and south america. Some people separate North America, central America and South America but they are one as a continent.

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Posted 11/10/14

xNuSeNsE wrote:


Genbu89 wrote:


xNuSeNsE wrote:

Immigrants are not a problem.... period! We are all human and borders are just imaginary lines drawn on a map.

Anyone on american soil who is not a native american is basically an illegal immigrant, if that is how you choose to look at things.

This is the real problem -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM&list=LLck50iEUF3Bdk4VCEji-T1Q&index=3


We should all be thinking about how to help each other out of this economical mess, not who is an immigrant and who is not.


Hey now, stop trying to distract people with more far-reaching issues!


I'm not distracting anyone, i'm just showing them the truth. The people at the top of them graphs are the ones distracting you with nonsense like illegal immigrants being the problem.

It's part of the same issue. People are looking at it from a economic stand point and that information proves that to be pointless.

Inequality like that is rife the world over and worse in other countries, so people try to move to other countries for a better life.


Sarcasm alert!

... OK, let's get serious then.

Immigration is a problem... well, so they say. I live pretty far away from the border, so I don't see the effects of illegal immigrants first-hand. Regardless, my stance would be to give them a time frame in which to get a visa (say, six months?), after which they can apply for citizenship. However if you do this (force illegal immigrants to get legal citizenship or otherwise legalize their stay under threat of deportation) they will be subject to US minimum wage laws, and their employers will move on to new illegal immigrants... or if that's not an option, the system won't be able to sustain itself in its present form, and things will be thrown into chaos.

I don't want to hear "Borders are just lines!" or "Everyone is an illegal immigrant but Native Americans!" either. For the former, yes, borders are just lines on maps, but they denote where one country's sovereignty ends and another begins; this is very important, because it determines what governing body makes your laws and you pay your taxes to. For the latter, do not hold us responsible for the actions of our ancestors. What they did was wrong, but it's too late to change that, so what we need to worry about is what we can change.

Wealth (or even general income) inequality is a big problem in the US, but there's no clear answer as to how to change it. Congress won't do anything that hurts the pockets of big corporations and their top dogs, because that's how they get their campaign funding and also how they live the extravagant lifestyle they do though lobbying. The rich themselves don't care; why should they? They've got more money than they could ever need. Trying to tackle the problem politically is nigh-impossible even if there isn't lobbying involved, because the instant you try to do something about income / wealth inequality you're painted as engaging in class warfare, typically by conservative media; this actually happened to the current POTUS. Yeah, income inequality is the worst it's been since the Roaring 20's, but what can we do?

... apropos of this, if you'd like to discuss income inequality further, I'd suggest making a new thread for it. Don't wanna get too off-topic.
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Posted 11/10/14

Akage-chan wrote:


xNuSeNsE wrote:
..so people try to move to other countries for a better life.


But this is the problem. Instead of the people of that country standing up and attempting to fix the problem, they only further perpetuate it by moving away. The only way to fix the issue is to stay in that country, organize its people, and fix that problem. And it will probably require many individuals making the ultimate sacrifice. But that's how things change; The poor citizens of France organized and overthrew the French monarchy in the 18th century, and the Americans revolted against unfair British taxation during the same era as well. The majority of these people did not say "Things are bad, let's go live in _____". This was their country and they were willing to fight and die for it.

That is the problem today. The majority of people who are coming to the U.S. illegally are not willing to do this. I don't see Filipinos organizing to overthrow their government in order to wipe out the corruption. Nor do the poor living in rural China stand up against the communist regime and demand a fairer form of government. The Afganis and Pakistanis also refuse to wipe out terrorism and instead decide to take boats to Australia to immigrate illegally.

Instead of the deferre action stupidity, if the young illegals in the U.S. want to become legalized, join the military as thousands of other people in their same situation have done and have eventually become US citizens. I'm all for granting citizenship for those who see combat and are willing to fight and die for this country.



You definitely have a valid point about them needing to stand up and fight for equality in their own countries, we all need to, but they're not as fortunate as us. They don't have the kind of information, nor education available to them as we have.

Granting citizenship for those who are willing to fight and die for your government, however, is just disgusting. The American and UK governments have clearly started illegal wars in the past for economical gain and continue to get involved in wars that a lot of citizens don't agree with. Yet you seem to think "young illegals" should risk their life just to gain citizenship in the country they have been living in, which most probably was not even their own personal choice.
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Posted 11/10/14
I live within a short drive of the Canadian border, the Detroit-Windsor border being the most heavily traversed border in North America. When Congressman talk about illegal aliens a think that everyone wants to smuggle themselves into the United States. The living across this border and having knowledge of what goes on in Canada you realize that the Canadians have a problem with illegal US immigrants. I find it ironic that a number of American citizens are illegal in Canada as there are a number of Latin American citizens illegal in the United States.

Every time they raise the alert on the southern border gets harder and harder to go through the Canadian border. He used to be that people had lackluster jobs and getting across the border was nothing more than a minor formality, but now you have to have work that is in high demand and no one can fill it other than you. Because of this it's easier for Canadian medical personnel to work in the United States than it is for American skilled trades to work in Canada.

I've taken a very liberal line toward border issues when I had to go across the border about three times a week. After couple trips you get more drama from people who asked why you can't do your work in the United States. It's almost as if the idea of working in another country is forbidden, yet Americans want affordable health care and are willing to pay Canadian doctor twice as much as Canadians. But don't tell that to the American border agents who wonder why you can't do the genealogy of the family completely in the United States.

I was really hoping for the Dream Act, the original one stated a path to citizenship for those who earned a bachelors degree in a university or served four years in the armed services. But it was defeated, instead were going to do is raise the borders higher and higher. Maybe turn that fence into the Great Wall of China. Didn't work for the Chinese and it certainly won't work for us.
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Posted 11/10/14 , edited 11/10/14
<scarcasm>

yea, dont you know?
USA is america, others need not apply.
illegal imigrants don't come from anywere but mexico.

</scarcasm>

its s f*cked up world.


tho as for the 'should stay and fix your county, your forgetting familes. fix you country sounds good till you have kids. suddenly sticking around in a bad enviroment and puting you kids at risk when there is some where safer close by.......

like i said, its a screwed up world.

EDIT:
as for yuma, border town, not a whole lot of viloence from illegals. 95% of them just work, get drunk on weekends, then do it again. one good thing about yuma, small town, and the border town in mexico is pretty small. san lius is about a 30 minute drive, and there are a lot of border patrols out and about. in the yuma area, anyways. tho having a border check point only open on weekends........um yeah.
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Posted 11/10/14 , edited 11/10/14

kirika202 wrote:


tkayt wrote:


US does have that. People from any of the 51 states can travel and live in another state if they so choose in the US.


I don't know if you're just joking or...

I said America and I was talking about traveling and living in other countries, not states. America is a continent, not a country. Europe is a continent. Hence the comparison...America= Canada, US, Mexico, all central america and south america. Some people separate North America, central America and South America but they are one as a continent.



I'm well aware of America being a continent. I too separate the Americas into north, central and south. Size and distance wise there is a lot of travel that can be done within the US borders. Europe isn't as big even though they are different countries. US also has Alaska when you've gotten past Canada plus Hawaii and there's Puerto Rico as a colony.

Posted 11/10/14

tkayt wrote:

I'm well aware of America being a continent. I too separate the Americas into north, central and south. Size and distance wise there is a lot of travel that can be done within the US borders. Europe isn't as big even though they are different countries. US also has Alaska when you've gotten past Canada plus Hawaii and there's Puerto Rico as a colony.



I don't know what's your point but it is kind of stupid to say 'anyone in US can travel to the 51 states'. Duh. That's obvious and it wasn't what I was asking for. (Even though, if an immigrant travels in US and the police or ICE asks for their documents, they could be in trouble ).

I was asking "why America can't be like Europe?" i.e. Mexicans can go to live to US without any immigration problem? obviously not, but someone from Spain can go to...England for example with no problem at all...and I mean to live and not to travel . I never asked if anyone within the US borders could live in any of the US states. I'm well aware that Puerto Rico is part of US, that's why I didn't include it....still not sure whether you were serious with your first post because 1.that's obvious, 2. I wasn't asking that.

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Posted 11/10/14

kirika202 wrote:


tkayt wrote:

I'm well aware of America being a continent. I too separate the Americas into north, central and south. Size and distance wise there is a lot of travel that can be done within the US borders. Europe isn't as big even though they are different countries. US also has Alaska when you've gotten past Canada plus Hawaii and there's Puerto Rico as a colony.



I don't know what's your point but it is kind of stupid to say 'anyone in US can travel to the 51 states'. Duh. That's obvious and it wasn't what I was asking for. (Even though, if an immigrant travels in US and the police or ICE asks for their documents, they could be in trouble ).

I was asking "why America can't be like Europe?" i.e. Mexicans can go to live to US without any immigration problem? obviously not, but someone from Spain can go to...England for example with no problem at all...and I mean to live and not to travel . I never asked if anyone within the US borders could live in any of the US states. I'm well aware that Puerto Rico is part of US, that's why I didn't include it....still not sure whether you were serious with your first post because 1.that's obvious, 2. I wasn't asking that.



I am serious. I am coming from a different view point than you. Like I said I'm comparing size and distance.

Posted 11/10/14


Why wouldn't I be able to travel or live in any of the 51 states of my country? I can go any where that belongs to US but I can certainly not live anywhere in Canada or Brazil without immigration paper work and laws.

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Posted 11/10/14 , edited 11/10/14

kirika202 wrote:



Why wouldn't I be able to travel or live in any of the 51 states of my country? I can go any where that belongs to US but I can certainly not live anywhere in Canada or Brazil without immigration paper work and laws.



I didn't say you couldn't travel in your country, the point I'm making is that you can jump on a plane or train and travel for hours and still be within your country's borders. Each state differs in culture.

In Europe (world's second smallest continent) we can travel the same distance and be able to move about freely including living there. It just so happens that we have different countries instead of states and this is limited to 27 countries in the European Union . The people from Africa, Asia and the middle east don't get to live Europe without going through a lot of hoops.
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