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Government Help To The Poor
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27 / F / The state of Wash...
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Posted 11/13/14
Many people argue that giving welfare payments to poor families encourages people to have more children, which increase the population of poor people. these people also oppose public education, minimum wages, public heath care, social security, and money to the disabled from the government. They feel these programs encourages people to be lazy and have lots of babies.

However, when comparing nations who do provide these programs, like the US, Canada, and Western Europe, to nations that don't, like the African countries, Asian countries, India, and Mexico and South America, the countries that do provide these programs are better off socially and economically. The countries that don't provide these programs are worst off socially and economically. Also people from countries who don't help their poor make up the majority of the immigrants to countries that help it people.

Another thing to point out is that people from nations who do provide these programs, like the US, Canada, and Western Europe do not do mass migrations to other countries.

Another thing to point out is nations who do not have socially programs have a majority of the world's population. Nations that do have social programs have smaller and shrinking populations.

So my question for you is this.

1. Should all nations provide a "social safety net" and free education for its people?


Tell me what you think.
Posted 11/13/14
God dude I just learned about this like today.


The shortest answer is yes. I don't know. I'm a utilitarian. The best for all people is what we should do. We pay taxes. No country in the world do you not pay taxes. That "social safety net" is social security, which is the literal reciprocation of your taxes and what you paid. You earned it, even if it's pretty meager for someone to live off of.

If you're unemployed and need assistance, I think you should get the help. If you are impoverished and can't afford living expenses, I think you should get the help. Do people abuse it? Yes. But there are a lot of people who need it.

And free education? Absolutely. Education is the most important thing in the entirety of a person's life. It needs to be available to everyone equally.

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Posted 11/13/14
Everyone deserves help, but for people who abuse it, there should be some punishment. And ive seen some people get punished and its the kids who suffer. Its pretty difficult to manage.
Posted 11/13/14
I take advantage of the help provided for medical expenses. Even if I had a higher paying job I would not be able to afford the medicine I need. Without government or other forms of assistance I simply would not get anything. It costs $80,000 every 6 weeks for my medicine alone and that does not include the blood work I have to do every 3 months and the check ups every 6 months and the...more extensive test every 2 years. There is just no way I could handle those kinds of bills. It's also only thanks to the affordable care act and medicaid expanding to cover people with my income that I was able to get new glasses after 10 years and finally start to see a dentist again. So I do think it is needed. It is just unfortunate that people abuse it but if you try to shut that down it makes it harder for those who do still need it. I just wish there was a way to catch people who abuse it easier so that hopefully there would be less complaints and problems for the rest of us.
Posted 11/13/14
There are people who abuse the system, but not nearly as many as you might be led to believe.

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3677
Posted 11/13/14
I agree. Countries that has a really good welfare system tends to have a better standard of life index and lower crime rate.


However, Australia is slowly becoming Americanised, in terms of welfare (and everything else, really), they are abolishing university student loan help, and also you have to wait 6 months to receive a payment if you become unemployed. I don't know if these new laws are in effect yet, but they were in the Budget plans. And people were protesting left + right.
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23 / M / Crunchyroll HQ
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Posted 11/13/14
First ,I would like to point out that these systems did not have any part in making the listed nations and other developed countries wealthy. Free, effective public education should be in every nation without them malefactors like crime will increase while the workforce will suffer. Other social programs are also great but to a certain extent. With too many programs, taxes become a burden on majority of the people and other more worthwhile causes wouldn't be receiving much needed funded. In the coming years, these nations must decide on a line so that the countries don' go bankrupt like Greece. The UK is creeping into debt because some immigrants live off of welfare while having a large amount of children. A red line must be drawn to end over-spending but without many of these programs millions would suffer.
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Posted 11/13/14
Last time I know there's this guy who is still a millionaire, due to lotto, that is still accepting food stamps.
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Posted 11/13/14
I think some help is great. Programs need to make sure that they are providing a hand up and not hand outs. A hand up helps people to get to a point where they progress on their own after a period of time so they won't need any more help. Hand outs keep people dependent on that system.

Here's a little bit of info about where I lived in the Caribbean. They have social assistance programs. There's funds for some ill and or disabled people and some for those poor folks with children. The payments are extremely meagre but they exists. There's a few unemployment schemes but they seem to be about some manual labour programs for a limited time. They also have housing programs from low rent controlled homes to affordable houses for sale. Health care is free though you have to pay for medicines and equipment. Waiting for care can be long and hospitals can sometimes be overcrowded, understaffed or badly managed or ill equipped.

Education up to tertiary level is free. School children are allocated their individual lap tops at school to use. They do still have a problem with providing good access to education for those with learning and or physical disabilities.

They also have their share of new immigrants coming in from other islands, China, India, Africa, south America with some of them being illegal to sort out. There's even some Germans. Yet there are those that still immigrate from there to other parts of the world for many reasons including studying, joining family, career building, getting away from family or just to fly the nest.

What many forget is tax payers are all adults. Yes those on low incomes won't be paying income tax but they still pay others taxes. In the UK there is VAT, a consumer tax we all pay on goods we purchase. I know that US has something similar. Each local area pays a council tax and even those unemployed, pensioners etc pay a portion of this. I get annoyed when I hear one of those rants about tax payers having to pay for stuff. Unless you're some hidden underclass committing fraud then you're as much as tax payer as I am. Tax payers are paying for things that we all use directly or indirectly.
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Posted 11/13/14

hikikomori4life wrote:

First ,I would like to point out that these systems did not have any part in making the listed nations and other developed countries wealthy. Free, effective public education should be in every nation without them malefactors like crime will increase while the workforce will suffer. Other social programs are also great but to a certain extent. With too many programs, taxes become a burden on majority of the people and other more worthwhile causes wouldn't be receiving much needed funded. In the coming years, these nations must decide on a line so that the countries don' go bankrupt like Greece. The UK is creeping into debt because some immigrants live off of welfare while having a large amount of children. A red line must be drawn to end over-spending but without many of these programs millions would suffer.


That's not the whole story. When they talk about the welfare funds they include pensioners, poor people, disabled and children. Pensioners make up more than half of these funds. Their pensions is the results of paying into the system their entire working lives so they've earned it. There will be some that didn't if they fall into the category of disabled or unemployed parent caring for children but most will have paid. The problems that are growing is because we have increasingly more and more pensioners to provide for than the working force to help pay for it. That's to do with medical care helping most to live longer so they'd spend a lot of time being a pensioner and our systems had failed to take that into account. Those large amount of children are future tax payers to balance the pensioner/worker ratios.

Oh an the debt increased because of the mismanagement of bankers whose incentives are to get as much bonuses as they can out of others' finance and the government bailing them out without setting conditions.

Posted 11/13/14 , edited 11/13/14
I'm all for it. I never did get why people wanted to take it away. Because some people abuse it? What about the people who need it?
Posted 11/13/14

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I'm all for it. I never did get why people wanted to take it away. Because some people abuse it? What about the people who need it?


Because opponents of welfare spending don't think "some" people are abusing the system; they believe abuse is much more widespread and the vast majority of welfare recipients are guilty of it.
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27 / M / Mor Dhona
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Posted 11/13/14
Should all nations provide a social safety net and free education to the populace? ... I'd say so, but this means higher taxes, which people (particularly the big corporate businessmen) don't like.

Of course there are people who abuse the system, and they will always be pointed to as the reason as to why we can't have these systems. I'd argue that more people benefit from it than abuse it, though; unfortunately if you're so deep in the hole you need government assistance getting back out isn't going to be easy.
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35 / M
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Posted 11/13/14
ooooog...

yes... BUT...

1. The US DOES have massive immigration inward. That's why our populations continue to rise (as well as our shoddy safety net) compared to the european nations that are also facing declining populations.

2. The reason that everyone forgets that a lot of those social nets exist is PRECISELY to get people working. You retire the old folks from the workforce, they, THEORETICALLY should not be looking for jobs or continuing to work, freeing up jobs for younger people. An aging work force with a mediocre to poor safety net ends up depressing the economy because there are income limits on what they can make, meaning they go to work for supplemental income, not full income, and because there's more people in the workforce, the supply for jobs is low, meaning employers can be more picky/cheap.

Medical social nets exist to ensure everyone is physically able to work (disability is one of the most abused social safety nets we have in my opinion, but I'm not against them. Just reform. Medical care needs reform because most of the costs go to billing and insurances. Medical insurance as a privately owned business should be outlawed). Schools are provided to ensure proper training of your work force. A standard work week sets up a lot of benefits from ensuring your employees are healthy and well rested, to once again, cutting down the number of hours a person can work to ensure more employment.

Minimum wages ensure better quality of life for your employees, but also mandate that the economy actually flows by ensuring the employees, now in this case customers, have money with which to spend. (maximum wages should be set too, via higher tax rates for the wealthy and stronger capital gains taxes. I'm sorry but the wealthy are NOT job creators.. except in China and third world nations, and trust me, you DON'T want those jobs for what they are paying).

So yeah, we need them, but they aren't about being "kind". They about fiscal and economic health.

(copyright laws on the other hand, need to be taken down several notches, the internet should maintain neutrality. The government should take over banking and public works, and the environmental regulations should be given more oomph. Ecological health means financial health as well.. but that's a longer post that reads similarly to this).
DonB04 
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30 / M / New York
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Posted 11/13/14
There needs to be much stricter guidelines for those who apply for free money. "I can't get/find a job" are unacceptable excuses. I can't stand seeing people who literally do nothing live in luxury while I work myself to death.

Yes there are people that truly need help but those who abuse the system are the ones that will destroy this country.

This is just an opinion of someone who lives in a town full of useless deadbeats.
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