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Government Help To The Poor
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47 / M / Memphis, TN
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Posted 11/14/14 , edited 11/14/14

papagolfwhiskey wrote:


bravostribe1015 wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I'm all for it. I never did get why people wanted to take it away. Because some people abuse it? What about the people who need it?


Because opponents of welfare spending don't think "some" people are abusing the system; they believe abuse is much more widespread and the vast majority of welfare recipients are guilty of it.


The logic that everyone who accepts a government handout is lazy serves those who want to justify selfishness. It's funny these same people usually have no problem with state handouts to corporations.




It is interesting that in the US, corporations have influenced the courts to accept the concept of corporate personhood, through which those corporations are legally recognized as individuals with the same rights and protections given actual persons. It seems hypocritical then that this personhood does not apply to income or property taxes. Heaven knows, I've never been contacted by my local or state government and told that my land taxes were being waived! Nor has the IRS ever contacted me and said: "Don't worry about that money you made this year." In general, corporations make more money than individual people and should be taxed accordingly.

But on a personal level, I find the current welfare structure offensive. Let me be blunt--I work in order to provide for my family. My family. I don't think that I should be expected--let alone required--to feed, clothe, and house other people's families. It's unfair. It's immoral. It's extortion and exploitation all rolled into one. I went out and worked for mine--so what's wrong with being a little selfish?

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Posted 11/14/14

ZodiacA17 wrote:


Do not declare what I am or how you relate to me. You know nothing of me but my surface.
On that note, I mention nothing of anarchism, that is a stigma you applied to me yourself. You know what means nothing to nobody on this planet? Your or my opinions. The OP asked this forum, so I answered, somewhat briefly, with my opinion. And instead of being quiet, or happy, that you gave your own. You cringed and retaliated because you disagree with me. Why does that matter?
If you got one thing out of my post, that isn't your perceived version of my words, it should be 'Mind your business.' The first motto of the United States of America. I do not give a damn about what you think. If I did I would have asked you. I do give damn now, because of just agreeing to disagree, you had to break apart what I said and argue with most of it. To what end? Why? Mind your business. Take care of your house before criticizing others' houses.
We were created in God's image, with free will given to us, and humans can and will fail. But we have freedom because of that. And that's how I want to live.
In my state, there is a tax for roads incorporated into a sales tax, but they also charge a "tax" in the form of a license for both me and my vehicles. Meaning I am paying at least three times for the same thing.
I have been blessed to be a part owner in a company, and that is a very stressful position. I see the money flow into the government, our employees, suppliers, etc, etc. We pay $3.00 over minimum wage of our state, or we did. Until the "Affordable Care Act" increased our health rates so much we could not afford employees, it is just the owner-operators now. I personally operate manufacturing and shipping of our company, just as I did when I oversaw four people doing the jobs I now do alone.
You believe and act as you want to. Just as you, my experience guides my decisions, and my experience shows me that the direction the United States is heading is wrong. And I feel it needs to be reversed, and it will be painful to undo, but the opportunity for prosperity that will come will be worth it, but that does not mean people will receive prosperity.
Now you know a little about me besides the surface. We used God to build this nation, and I believe he will be used to save it from its people and itself.Our rules, and morals, must be based in judeo christian principles, were people are self governing for themselves and for those who are not. We will take care of ourselves, and those who cannot take care of themselves.
This Republic, not Democracy, is corrupted but can be fixed if we have members of its representatives who believe that a higher standard other than themselves can accomplish the good of the people.
The federal government of the United States had two roles when it was formed. To protect the union of the states and to ensure that the states themselves could conduct business. Not to regulate and oversee each individual of the union. The problems this country faces are rooted in the government several generations, which is why it will be painful to undo. But that isn't a call for anarchism, or complete libertarianism to just ignore the law. It is possible to fix the system the way it is because the system is broad, but direct. God will save us, I know that much, but I do not know when.
Believe what you want, about this, my God, your God, no God, king or country, politics and charity, but that is a summary of what I believe and why. But above all of that, don't take your rights for granted.




With that logic, you should be minding your own business when it comes to:
Welfare, government, taxes, politics, opinions, religion, morality, etc.

You'd also be minding your own business when someone replies to your posts.
Posts made in public forums. Places meant to illicit discussion.
For someone who doesn't care what others think, you sure are offended.




Posted 11/14/14
Spoilers people, SPOILERS!! Click on that shit. Or at least delete the insignificant quotes...
xenara 
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Posted 11/14/14 , edited 11/14/14
Free education - absolutely yes.

Educating the people in your country will enable growth and prosperity. Generally, countries with a higher percentage of literate and well-educated people have a much lower rate of poverty and a higher rate of economic growth. Not only that, but education helps eradicate ridiculous superstitious notions. For example, in many parts of Africa where education is not readily and easily acceptable... many people believe that mutilating female genitalia will make the woman more fertile and prosperous. They do not believe or understand the dangers and health risks of such procedures.

Also, once upon a time, doctors thought it was ridiculous and unnecessary to wash their hands and wear gloves for surgery. We also used to think drilling holes in your head would relieve headaches and release evil spirits. Or, have you ever heard how masturbation will cause the palms of your hands to grow hair and you'll end up as a hysterical person?

Education helps people be more healthy and provides them with a greater understanding of the world around them. Countries with a high rate of education generally also have lower crime rates and are more likely to promote equality.

Social safety net - yes, but with restrictions.

I can really only speak to the social safety net in Canada as that is where I am from and I understand how it works. Actually, I was collecting social assistance for a time when I was in my late teens. Even though I was still technically a "minor" I still had to report to a social worker regularly and prove I was trying to do something while collecting assistance. Because I was a minor and not yet graduated, I had to keep up school attendance to keep collecting. When I dropped school, I was put on probation and had my money held until I met up with the social worker and worked out a plan of what I needed to do if I wasn't going to school. If I wasn't in a job program and could prove I was looking for work by providing them with a list of places I had taken resumes and applied to, then I was cut off.

I think providing assistance to people is important but they should have to regularly show their need and report in to a worker from time to time. My mother collects disability because she is schizophrenic. She was diagnosed and has been on medication since I was born. She has tried and failed many times over the years to hold down jobs. It is difficult for an employer to deal with an employee who may have a psychotic episode at work and can obviously not focus on anything too complex. She was so excited to get a job bussing tables at a restaurant a few months ago; however, after a few weeks of working, they let her go because she just wasn't "fitting in". She regularly goes and does volunteer work at the hospital gift store and at a community center where she helps out with cooking and cleaning. She would love nothing more than to be a "regular" person and work a normal job and maybe even one day find a man and get married..... but sadly, that is unlikely to ever happen. She does whatever she can to contribute to others despite her mental illness. I'm sure glad I live in a country where she can get regular help and she is able to have some independence. If we were in another country with poor education and no social "safety net".... she would likely be diagnosed as being consumed by evil spirits that need to be exorcised and would likely have been killed by someone in a misguided attempt to "cure" her.

People who abuse systems are out there in every class and social standing. There are people with good professional union jobs that exploit and abuse the "system" they are in. I know a few people who work in good union jobs who always seem to be off on worker's compensation or short term disability for some "injury" or another.... yet they still seem to be capable of going camping and enjoying themselves while they are off on "sick leave" or whatever you want to call it. I call it "lazy leave".

Even without a social safety net, there will always be people who use the system and use others for their own selfish gains. Some people are simply lazy and care nothing for others and would do anything to get out of working. Taking away a social safety net won't stop people who are hell-bent on coasting through life doing as little as possible.

Having a social safety net can have a positive effect and can help people who are truly in a bad place for one reason or another. You just never know when you might end up in a bad situation and you might have to reach out for help. You know the old saying, never judge a person until you have walked a mile in their shoes. You don't always know what others are going through. Many of us do not tell our stories to others for fear of being shamed or ridiculed. I know I was embarrassed to admit to anyone I was collecting assistance. Now, I don't care who knows as it helped me get to where I am now. If I had been dropped by society and not received help, I would probably be a rogue on the street committing crimes to survive.... or I would simply be dead.
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Posted 11/14/14

moonhawk81 wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:


bravostribe1015 wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I'm all for it. I never did get why people wanted to take it away. Because some people abuse it? What about the people who need it?


Because opponents of welfare spending don't think "some" people are abusing the system; they believe abuse is much more widespread and the vast majority of welfare recipients are guilty of it.


The logic that everyone who accepts a government handout is lazy serves those who want to justify selfishness. It's funny these same people usually have no problem with state handouts to corporations.




It is interesting that in the US, corporations have influenced the courts to accept the concept of corporate personhood, through which those corporations are legally recognized as individuals with the same rights and protections given actual persons. It seems hypocritical then that this personhood does not apply to income or property taxes. Heaven knows, I've never been contacted by my local or state government and told that my land taxes were being waived! Nor has the IRS ever contacted me and said: "Don't worry about that money you made this year." In general, corporations make more money than individual people and should be taxed accordingly.

But on a personal level, I find the current welfare structure offensive. Let me be blunt--I work in order to provide for my family. My family. I don't think that I should be expected--let alone required--to feed, clothe, and house other people's families. It's unfair. It's immoral. It's extortion and exploitation all rolled into one. I went out and worked for mine--so what's wrong with being a little selfish?



Note that I said everyone who accepts some form of government handout. I don't know how welfare works in your country nor employment insurance subsidized housing and the rest. I've heard stories and seen my own evidence of abuse of my country's system and resent the abusers but cannot help but believe spending money giving people a hand up is better than bailing out people who have ten gold urinals and ruined trying to acquire an eleventh. As long as we are doing the latter I have no problem seeing a tiny fraction get 'wasted' on the former.

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Posted 11/14/14

wonkywilla wrote:


ZodiacA17 wrote:


Do not declare what I am or how you relate to me. You know nothing of me but my surface.
On that note, I mention nothing of anarchism, that is a stigma you applied to me yourself. You know what means nothing to nobody on this planet? Your or my opinions. The OP asked this forum, so I answered, somewhat briefly, with my opinion. And instead of being quiet, or happy, that you gave your own. You cringed and retaliated because you disagree with me. Why does that matter?
If you got one thing out of my post, that isn't your perceived version of my words, it should be 'Mind your business.' The first motto of the United States of America. I do not give a damn about what you think. If I did I would have asked you. I do give damn now, because of just agreeing to disagree, you had to break apart what I said and argue with most of it. To what end? Why? Mind your business. Take care of your house before criticizing others' houses.
We were created in God's image, with free will given to us, and humans can and will fail. But we have freedom because of that. And that's how I want to live.
In my state, there is a tax for roads incorporated into a sales tax, but they also charge a "tax" in the form of a license for both me and my vehicles. Meaning I am paying at least three times for the same thing.
I have been blessed to be a part owner in a company, and that is a very stressful position. I see the money flow into the government, our employees, suppliers, etc, etc. We pay $3.00 over minimum wage of our state, or we did. Until the "Affordable Care Act" increased our health rates so much we could not afford employees, it is just the owner-operators now. I personally operate manufacturing and shipping of our company, just as I did when I oversaw four people doing the jobs I now do alone.
You believe and act as you want to. Just as you, my experience guides my decisions, and my experience shows me that the direction the United States is heading is wrong. And I feel it needs to be reversed, and it will be painful to undo, but the opportunity for prosperity that will come will be worth it, but that does not mean people will receive prosperity.
Now you know a little about me besides the surface. We used God to build this nation, and I believe he will be used to save it from its people and itself.Our rules, and morals, must be based in judeo christian principles, were people are self governing for themselves and for those who are not. We will take care of ourselves, and those who cannot take care of themselves.
This Republic, not Democracy, is corrupted but can be fixed if we have members of its representatives who believe that a higher standard other than themselves can accomplish the good of the people.
The federal government of the United States had two roles when it was formed. To protect the union of the states and to ensure that the states themselves could conduct business. Not to regulate and oversee each individual of the union. The problems this country faces are rooted in the government several generations, which is why it will be painful to undo. But that isn't a call for anarchism, or complete libertarianism to just ignore the law. It is possible to fix the system the way it is because the system is broad, but direct. God will save us, I know that much, but I do not know when.
Believe what you want, about this, my God, your God, no God, king or country, politics and charity, but that is a summary of what I believe and why. But above all of that, don't take your rights for granted.




With that logic, you should be minding your own business when it comes to:
Welfare, government, taxes, politics, opinions, religion, morality, etc.

You'd also be minding your own business when someone replies to your posts.
Posts made in public forums. Places meant to illicit discussion.
For someone who doesn't care what others think, you sure are offended.






I am not offended. I will request that you re-analyze my post. I had mentioned, had the OP not asked for an opinion, I would have not posted anything, and had no one responded to me, I would have no reason to continue conversation in this forum. And the government s a whole, encompasses welfare, taxes and politics. That of which is my business because I am a tax payer, and it is my money, as well as your bearing you have purchased or lived in the US, that is spent. So those are my business. And I don't care about anyone else morals or religion, I just make sure I uphold mine.
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Posted 11/15/14
US spends more money to incarcerate people than educating them.
A government that sets people up to fail should reap the consequences of paying for that failure.
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36 / M / The Beyond.
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Posted 11/15/14
Government only exist to control the masses.
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Posted 11/15/14
This is one of the things that mind boggle me also[b/]
They are giving food stamps and welfare to people who are in need, BUT on the other hand there is a women down my street who is on welfare and she only smokes weed and doesnt care about her whildren and work
My tax money is also going to people like her
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