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Should he have apologized?
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Posted 11/20/14

AliceLilit_ wrote:
I would be interested in see a women wearing a shirt with men in bondage though, I think it would carry a heavier message.


I'm so interested as to why when a man wears a shirt like this it's considered wrong, sexist, misogynistic, etc, but then if the roles are reversed and a woman wears a shirt like this it is conveying a "message" and is "empowering".

Isn't that the exact opposite of equality?


BlueOni wrote:

Yes she did. That doesn't, however, make the context in which the shirt was worn any more appropriate. It'd be like showing up to a business meeting in a floral print tee, shorts, and sandals. In this case Dr. Taylor was representing a major scientific organization at a conference discussing a significant leap in aerospace science. People complained about the inappropriateness of the shirt given the context, Dr. Taylor apologized genuinely and passionately for having given people the wrong idea about himself and his organization, and his apology was accepted. The remaining aftermath of this issue is people complaining about a dead issue, probably because they've only just discovered it themselves.

This is nothing, people. There is no reason to hate feminists for this, there's no reason to be disappointed in Dr. Taylor's decision to apologize, and there's no reason to be upset that people complained. Inappropriate dress given the context is something people have called out since people started having occasions where different attire was necessary.


Maybe I'm out of my mind here, but if somebody were to show up to a business meeting in a floral print tee, shorts, and sandals I really wouldn't care. The only thing that matters are what they had to offer for the meeting.

Honestly, in what capacity does what somebody is wearing have to do with what they have to offer? What's the difference between what he was wearing and a suit? The picture on this shirt? I'm sorry but that just seems so contrived. Clothes are clothes and they serve the same function no matter what kind of clothes you're wearing.

I don't "hate" feminists for this, but I do think its worth discussing. If we're to the point where "feminists" are attacking people to the point where they are crying over something as simple as a shirt don't you think that's a problem? If our society has gotten to the point where we can ignore such a milestone in history as this just because somebody was wearing a certain kind of shirt things have degraded pretty far.






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Posted 11/20/14

Still_Ginger wrote:


AliceLilit_ wrote:
I would be interested in see a women wearing a shirt with men in bondage though, I think it would carry a heavier message.


I'm so interested as to why when a man wears a shirt like this it's considered wrong, sexist, misogynistic, etc, but then if the roles are reversed and a woman wears a shirt like this it is conveying a "message" and is "empowering".

Isn't that the exact opposite of equality?


BlueOni wrote:

Yes she did. That doesn't, however, make the context in which the shirt was worn any more appropriate. It'd be like showing up to a business meeting in a floral print tee, shorts, and sandals. In this case Dr. Taylor was representing a major scientific organization at a conference discussing a significant leap in aerospace science. People complained about the inappropriateness of the shirt given the context, Dr. Taylor apologized genuinely and passionately for having given people the wrong idea about himself and his organization, and his apology was accepted. The remaining aftermath of this issue is people complaining about a dead issue, probably because they've only just discovered it themselves.

This is nothing, people. There is no reason to hate feminists for this, there's no reason to be disappointed in Dr. Taylor's decision to apologize, and there's no reason to be upset that people complained. Inappropriate dress given the context is something people have called out since people started having occasions where different attire was necessary.


Maybe I'm out of my mind here, but if somebody were to show up to a business meeting in a floral print tee, shorts, and sandals I really wouldn't care. The only thing that matters are what they had to offer for the meeting.

Honestly, in what capacity does what somebody is wearing have to do with what they have to offer? What's the difference between what he was wearing and a suit? The picture on this shirt? I'm sorry but that just seems so contrived. Clothes are clothes and they serve the same function no matter what kind of clothes you're wearing.

I don't "hate" feminists for this, but I do think its worth discussing. If we're to the point where "feminists" are attacking people to the point where they are crying over something as simple as a shirt don't you think that's a problem? If our society has gotten to the point where we can ignore such a milestone in history as this just because somebody was wearing a certain kind of shirt things have degraded pretty far.




I think the understanding of equality is full of problems that I don't feel like getting into.

Why? Thousands of years of male dominance.

I just thought it interesting to think of what would happen if a women wore a male version of the shirt.



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Posted 11/20/14

Still_Ginger wrote:

Maybe I'm out of my mind here, but if somebody were to show up to a business meeting in a floral print tee, shorts, and sandals I really wouldn't care. The only thing that matters are what they had to offer for the meeting.

Honestly, in what capacity does what somebody is wearing have to do with what they have to offer? What's the difference between what he was wearing and a suit? The picture on this shirt? I'm sorry but that just seems so contrived. Clothes are clothes and they serve the same function no matter what kind of clothes you're wearing.

I don't "hate" feminists for this, but I do think its worth discussing. If we're to the point where "feminists" are attacking people to the point where they are crying over something as simple as a shirt don't you think that's a problem? If our society has gotten to the point where we can ignore such a milestone in history as this just because somebody was wearing a certain kind of shirt things have degraded pretty far.


The thing is that as a representative of a major scientific institution reporting a significant achievement Dr. Taylor represented not only himself, but the scientific community as a whole. Given that context what he says and how he looks both impact the image of the scientific community itself. It's larger than Dr. Taylor alone. The problem isn't that women were portrayed in bondage gear (there are plenty of women who are into sadomasochism), but there's a time and a place for such imagery. When you put that imagery in the wrong context it sends a different message.

Imagine a "Dead End" sign posted at an intersection. This simply tells you that in one direction the road stops, so you'll have to turn around if you want to go somewhere beyond its boundaries. Now imagine that sign posted at the entrance of a cemetery. That sends a darker (but kind of amusing) message, doesn't it? Same deal here, only the darker message isn't as amusing this time. In the context of a casual Friday night game of bowling the shirt is little more than a shirt. In the context of a conference discussing major scientific breakthroughs a shirt depicting women in bondage gear can legitimately be taken a whole other way, one where women are unwelcome except as sexual objects.

That wasn't Dr. Taylor's intention, of course. He's made that plainly clear with his apology, and he was very honorable to offer one. But you know how the author's intent in a novel, or an anime, or a film, or a comic strip is really beside the point when it comes to the "appropriate" interpretation? The same applies here.
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Posted 11/20/14 , edited 11/20/14


What would happen? Most likely nothing. I'm sure there would be a ton of replies like YOU GO GIRL! WAY TO EMPOWER WOMEN! etc etc, but there wouldn't have been any of the backlash that this man got.

Wherein lies the problem. That's not equality. If a woman could wear a shirt like this and everything be okay, then a man should be able to also.

I never understood how "thousands of years of male dominance" applies to any argument outside of a history exam. I'm not denying that thousands of years of male dominance existed, I'm not denying that we still have a long way to go when it comes to gender equality, all I'm saying is that right here, right now, if you want equality it has to go both ways.

If you don't like a man wearing a shirt like this, a woman shouldn't be able to wear it either. If you think its okay for a woman to wear a shirt like this, then that means it should be okay for a man to wear it also.



I'm sorry but I wholeheartedly disagree. Maybe I just see things too literally and we'll never see eye to eye but I feel like that is reading WAY too far in to things. A shirt is a shirt. It doesn't have any extra "meaning" or symbolism just because he wore it at a certain time and a certain place.

I'm not sure if you've seen the video in question but he wasn't up on stage talking, it wasn't some speech to the world. He was pulled aside and interviewed. If you notice, the people on stage talking ARE in proper attire. I see it more along the lines of he was simply at work wearing casual attire and he got pulled aside to do an interview. I guess he didn't think to ask the interviewer if he could go change clothes first~

This is just a classic case of people reading too much into things and seeing something that isn't there. The only time its safe to assume that women aren't welcome in science because of a shirt somebody is wearing is if somebody is standing on stage wearing a shirt that says "women aren't welcome in science".
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Posted 11/20/14 , edited 11/20/14
No. you don't have to do what ever the feminist radicals what, it just encourages them.
I support equal rights, but this is just a matter of taste.
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Posted 11/20/14
We're at the point now where someone is pulling a political card at every turn, be ti sexist, feminist, racist, religious, whatever, someone is going to try and cause backlash over some kind of something.

That's the kind of world we live in now, everyone's grabbing at whatever they can to push their cause
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Posted 11/20/14
No, these so called "feminist" are fucking Nazi's and horrible people. Bringing that man to tears during an interview.

He just made one great step forward for humanity, and we made 5 more back by slandering him because of his fashion sense.
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Posted 11/20/14

Still_Ginger wrote:

I'm sorry but I wholeheartedly disagree. Maybe I just see things too literally and we'll never see eye to eye but I feel like that is reading WAY too far in to things. A shirt is a shirt. It doesn't have any extra "meaning" or symbolism just because he wore it at a certain time and a certain place.

I'm not sure if you've seen the video in question but he wasn't up on stage talking, it wasn't some speech to the world. He was pulled aside and interviewed. If you notice, the people on stage talking ARE in proper attire. I see it more along the lines of he was simply at work wearing casual attire and he got pulled aside to do an interview. I guess he didn't think to ask the interviewer if he could go change clothes first~

This is just a classic case of people reading too much into things and seeing something that isn't there. The only time its safe to assume that women aren't welcome in science because of a shirt somebody is wearing is if somebody is standing on stage wearing a shirt that says "women aren't welcome in science".


And the only sign posted at the entrance of a cemetery which can serve as a stark reminder of human mortality is one which says "You're going to die, too." We're indeed at an impasse, it seems.
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28 / M / USA! USA! USA!
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Posted 11/20/14
Remember kids, Vote Republican.
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Posted 11/20/14 , edited 11/20/14
Welp, no.
Posted 11/20/14 , edited 11/20/14

araganor wrote:



Hmm.. I never thought about it that way. Although someone did mention something similar to me before. I guess I just can't help but get caught by these things. I didn't really think of if this is just meant to get publicity or not. I felt very strongly about it and became curious of what other people thought. I tend to get carried away like that about certain things. Hehe...

Anyway, thank you for the input; and yes, it is extremely cool. That is why it irritates me to see an awesome achievement dwarfed by such pettiness.


Bavalt wrote:



I honestly don't believe it's bringing that sort of publicity to the comet landing. It is, however, a net positive in my view in that it is a great example of how petty feminism has become.


BlueOni wrote:



I would just like to point out to you that this man is a scientist; not a business man, not some corporate worker in Wall Street -- an actual scientist who spends most of his days cooped up in some lab, not in meetings trying to impress people. I'm not sure if you know many people in this line of work, but half the time they don't really care about appearances. The ones I know don't even own a suit. It's not important. Have you seen his sleeves? Clearly no one cares for appearances in this field. Heck, my own boss doesn't implement a dress code. I asked him once what he'd do if I showed up to work with pink hair and he said as long as I do the same good job teaching, he didn't care.

And just for your reference: http://sciencecareers.sciencemag.org/career_magazine/previous_issues/articles/2014_04_24/caredit.a1400104

People complained about the shirt because they know they can. They bullied this man to get an apology and prove a (pointless) point. There IS reason to hate "feminists" for this. They have gone too far. It's one thing to be offended personally, it's another to make a big deal out of it and rain on a person's parade just because you feel entitled to. "Feminists" acted in such poor taste regarding this issue and that apology was clearly undeserved. If anything it should be the other way around. In my opinion, these "feminists" owe Dr. Taylor an apology.
ThtGy 
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Posted 11/20/14


This is too perfect.
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Posted 11/20/14
3rd wave feminist are insane, 2nd wave and 1st wave, now that's good but the third, you all are cray.

I hate the patriarch as well (I have my reasons), but that's going at it all wrong. You gotta take it down at the core, gender identity and gender roles. Blur that shit and you'll get some real effective chaos.

so...

Should he have apologized?

Yes
Gives him more support and empathy from others as well as keeps him professional. Keeping it classy.
but he didn't have to

I wonder what would have happened if he didn't.
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Posted 11/20/14
As a woman am not offended at all by that shirt, inappropriate for the occasion maybe. I have seen worse offensive things than that. I hate the way people these days find some kind of cause to stand behind and try to impose their twisted views on how someone should live their life or how to dress or whatever else they think is wrong. Its sickening
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Posted 11/20/14
its a damn shirt. unless it shows something illegal, its just a damn shirt.

the world has bigger problems than some whiny woman whining about a damn shirt.
IT WAS A FRIGGEN GIFT FROM A WOMAN

thats all i have to say about that.
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