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Worst character in Super Smash Bros
2300 cr points
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Posted 5/7/08

jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:

You calls call yourself smash fans? Disgusting. No character sucks. They are all evened out. Every character has a fair chance of winning. Just because you suck with them does not mean they are bad characters, Jigglypuff rules the skies with it's areal combos and it's devastating final smash on smaller areas. Ganadorf is not Falcon clone, he is THE strongest character in the game, and slowest. Also, Ganadorf's attacks have more of a lung and distance to them then falcons. Sonic is the fastest yes, though his attacks are pretty weak. Takes forever to break smash ball with him, but if you manage, that's a terrifically painful final smash right there.

The moral of the story is, don't try to make tier list for this game. You will fail horrifically.


Actually, you're wrong. What you say may be true for amateur play but when it come to professional play you'll see why. The teir list is there to lists the win-lose ratios for each character based on the hypothesis that both players are equally good at their characters. So yes, you can manage to win with ganandorf against a marth but ganon will have a really hard time.


There is no such thing as a Brawl tier, sorry. There won't be because as stated by Sakurai, each character is just as good as the other. Once again, maybe you feel that way because you suck with ganandorf?


Tiers don't exist in Brawl!? That's garbage, you're deluding yourself if you think otherwise...


An official tier does not exist. Only fan made ones that mean nothing.


Listen, I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm not a fan of tier lists either, but as long as people are obsessed with winning they are always going to debate about "Who is the best?" Plus, you've seen and felt the character balance, it's a bit off, am I right?


I understand there are a lot of stupid people out there, but you gotta keep fighting it. Also, no I have not seen or felt this. I am good with some characters, I am bad with some too. It's that simple really. At the same time, I have seen some great players use the characters I am bad with.


I don't know, tiers lists aren't exactly a bad thing sometimes though. But I don't know how you can't feel the genuine differences between characters, it's true some people may be better with other characters than some, but I don't think winning all comes down to skill.


Of course it does. So you got your final smash? Alright, that's half the battle. Can you use it properly? Also, can you explain how tiers are good?


I'm talking about professional matches with tourney rules, where no luck is involved. Where it comes down to both players skill and their character's strengths and weaknesses. About tiers, well to be honest, I'm definately not the most knowledgable person when it comes to the methods that "pros" use for gathering all the statistics needed to create a list. But why be satisfied with what we have in front of us? Why not dig deeper and try to discover all the minute incatricies of the game? While it's not officially from the source, it's still a step forward.


The last tier in a nut shell said if it wasn't falco, shiek, marth or fox, they are useless. Besides, it ruins the fun for most people.
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Posted 5/7/08

moshXcore87 wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


moshXcore87 wrote:

i think olimar sucks...i kinda wish the katadamari dude was a character in the game lol...just a thought[=


Your using him like everyone else. Rank up the damage with his pikmin side-B, if you can get all 6 on, that percentage meter will fly. Trust me, Olimar is the unsung hero if anything.


well yeah i know all about that but i just think he sucks period...something about him is just so unappealing as a character lol...maybe it's the gargantuan nose:P


the whole thing about manipulating the pikmin to fight for you may not be your thing. Works just fine for me though.
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Posted 5/7/08

Kizer_kun wrote:


moshXcore87 wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


moshXcore87 wrote:

i think olimar sucks...i kinda wish the katadamari dude was a character in the game lol...just a thought[=


Your using him like everyone else. Rank up the damage with his pikmin side-B, if you can get all 6 on, that percentage meter will fly. Trust me, Olimar is the unsung hero if anything.


well yeah i know all about that but i just think he sucks period...something about him is just so unappealing as a character lol...maybe it's the gargantuan nose:P


the whole thing about manipulating the pikmin to fight for you may not be your thing. Works just fine for me though.


that's hot...but ya i suppose your right haha...i'm superficial when it comes to characters that i use(except wario that hunk) not going to lie...i tend to use the "cool" looking ones most of the time[=...but ya my best characters would prolly be pit and samus...what about you?
Posted 5/7/08

Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:

You calls call yourself smash fans? Disgusting. No character sucks. They are all evened out. Every character has a fair chance of winning. Just because you suck with them does not mean they are bad characters, Jigglypuff rules the skies with it's areal combos and it's devastating final smash on smaller areas. Ganadorf is not Falcon clone, he is THE strongest character in the game, and slowest. Also, Ganadorf's attacks have more of a lung and distance to them then falcons. Sonic is the fastest yes, though his attacks are pretty weak. Takes forever to break smash ball with him, but if you manage, that's a terrifically painful final smash right there.

The moral of the story is, don't try to make tier list for this game. You will fail horrifically.


Actually, you're wrong. What you say may be true for amateur play but when it come to professional play you'll see why. The teir list is there to lists the win-lose ratios for each character based on the hypothesis that both players are equally good at their characters. So yes, you can manage to win with ganandorf against a marth but ganon will have a really hard time.


There is no such thing as a Brawl tier, sorry. There won't be because as stated by Sakurai, each character is just as good as the other. Once again, maybe you feel that way because you suck with ganandorf?


Tiers don't exist in Brawl!? That's garbage, you're deluding yourself if you think otherwise...


An official tier does not exist. Only fan made ones that mean nothing.


Listen, I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm not a fan of tier lists either, but as long as people are obsessed with winning they are always going to debate about "Who is the best?" Plus, you've seen and felt the character balance, it's a bit off, am I right?


I understand there are a lot of stupid people out there, but you gotta keep fighting it. Also, no I have not seen or felt this. I am good with some characters, I am bad with some too. It's that simple really. At the same time, I have seen some great players use the characters I am bad with.


I don't know, tiers lists aren't exactly a bad thing sometimes though. But I don't know how you can't feel the genuine differences between characters, it's true some people may be better with other characters than some, but I don't think winning all comes down to skill.


Of course it does. So you got your final smash? Alright, that's half the battle. Can you use it properly? Also, can you explain how tiers are good?


I'm talking about professional matches with tourney rules, where no luck is involved. Where it comes down to both players skill and their character's strengths and weaknesses. About tiers, well to be honest, I'm definately not the most knowledgable person when it comes to the methods that "pros" use for gathering all the statistics needed to create a list. But why be satisfied with what we have in front of us? Why not dig deeper and try to discover all the minute incatricies of the game? While it's not officially from the source, it's still a step forward.


The last tier in a nut shell said if it wasn't falco, shiek, marth or fox, they are useless. Besides, it ruins the fun for most people.


I can understand what you mean, that blows, but I'm sure you've have to taken into account that it was glitch was that made them completely own the rest. Yeah, it ruins the fun for some people, but I'm glad that in Brawl at least there isn't some glitch that let's 4 characters completely own the rest...
2300 cr points
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23 / M / New Jersey
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Posted 5/7/08

moshXcore87 wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


moshXcore87 wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


moshXcore87 wrote:

i think olimar sucks...i kinda wish the katadamari dude was a character in the game lol...just a thought[=


Your using him like everyone else. Rank up the damage with his pikmin side-B, if you can get all 6 on, that percentage meter will fly. Trust me, Olimar is the unsung hero if anything.


well yeah i know all about that but i just think he sucks period...something about him is just so unappealing as a character lol...maybe it's the gargantuan nose:P


the whole thing about manipulating the pikmin to fight for you may not be your thing. Works just fine for me though.


that's hot...but ya i suppose your right haha...i'm superficial when it comes to characters that i use(except wario that hunk) not going to lie...i tend to use the "cool" looking ones most of the time[=...but ya my best characters would prolly be pit and samus...what about you?


Mario, Lucas, Toon Link, and Capt. Falcon. Though I have been using "toon" link back when he was young link in melee. Makes me better then most young link scrubs.
2300 cr points
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23 / M / New Jersey
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Posted 5/7/08

jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:

You calls call yourself smash fans? Disgusting. No character sucks. They are all evened out. Every character has a fair chance of winning. Just because you suck with them does not mean they are bad characters, Jigglypuff rules the skies with it's areal combos and it's devastating final smash on smaller areas. Ganadorf is not Falcon clone, he is THE strongest character in the game, and slowest. Also, Ganadorf's attacks have more of a lung and distance to them then falcons. Sonic is the fastest yes, though his attacks are pretty weak. Takes forever to break smash ball with him, but if you manage, that's a terrifically painful final smash right there.

The moral of the story is, don't try to make tier list for this game. You will fail horrifically.


Actually, you're wrong. What you say may be true for amateur play but when it come to professional play you'll see why. The teir list is there to lists the win-lose ratios for each character based on the hypothesis that both players are equally good at their characters. So yes, you can manage to win with ganandorf against a marth but ganon will have a really hard time.


There is no such thing as a Brawl tier, sorry. There won't be because as stated by Sakurai, each character is just as good as the other. Once again, maybe you feel that way because you suck with ganandorf?


Tiers don't exist in Brawl!? That's garbage, you're deluding yourself if you think otherwise...


An official tier does not exist. Only fan made ones that mean nothing.


Listen, I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm not a fan of tier lists either, but as long as people are obsessed with winning they are always going to debate about "Who is the best?" Plus, you've seen and felt the character balance, it's a bit off, am I right?


I understand there are a lot of stupid people out there, but you gotta keep fighting it. Also, no I have not seen or felt this. I am good with some characters, I am bad with some too. It's that simple really. At the same time, I have seen some great players use the characters I am bad with.


I don't know, tiers lists aren't exactly a bad thing sometimes though. But I don't know how you can't feel the genuine differences between characters, it's true some people may be better with other characters than some, but I don't think winning all comes down to skill.


Of course it does. So you got your final smash? Alright, that's half the battle. Can you use it properly? Also, can you explain how tiers are good?


I'm talking about professional matches with tourney rules, where no luck is involved. Where it comes down to both players skill and their character's strengths and weaknesses. About tiers, well to be honest, I'm definately not the most knowledgable person when it comes to the methods that "pros" use for gathering all the statistics needed to create a list. But why be satisfied with what we have in front of us? Why not dig deeper and try to discover all the minute incatricies of the game? While it's not officially from the source, it's still a step forward.


The last tier in a nut shell said if it wasn't falco, shiek, marth or fox, they are useless. Besides, it ruins the fun for most people.


I can understand what you mean, that blows, but I'm sure you've have to taken into account that it was glitch was that made them completely own the rest. Yeah, it ruins the fun for some people, but I'm glad that in Brawl at least there isn't some glitch that let's 4 characters completely own the rest...


Not only that, but characters have been nerfed and buffed accordingly to make sure everyone is even.
Posted 5/7/08

Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:

You calls call yourself smash fans? Disgusting. No character sucks. They are all evened out. Every character has a fair chance of winning. Just because you suck with them does not mean they are bad characters, Jigglypuff rules the skies with it's areal combos and it's devastating final smash on smaller areas. Ganadorf is not Falcon clone, he is THE strongest character in the game, and slowest. Also, Ganadorf's attacks have more of a lung and distance to them then falcons. Sonic is the fastest yes, though his attacks are pretty weak. Takes forever to break smash ball with him, but if you manage, that's a terrifically painful final smash right there.

The moral of the story is, don't try to make tier list for this game. You will fail horrifically.


Actually, you're wrong. What you say may be true for amateur play but when it come to professional play you'll see why. The teir list is there to lists the win-lose ratios for each character based on the hypothesis that both players are equally good at their characters. So yes, you can manage to win with ganandorf against a marth but ganon will have a really hard time.


There is no such thing as a Brawl tier, sorry. There won't be because as stated by Sakurai, each character is just as good as the other. Once again, maybe you feel that way because you suck with ganandorf?


Tiers don't exist in Brawl!? That's garbage, you're deluding yourself if you think otherwise...


An official tier does not exist. Only fan made ones that mean nothing.


Listen, I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm not a fan of tier lists either, but as long as people are obsessed with winning they are always going to debate about "Who is the best?" Plus, you've seen and felt the character balance, it's a bit off, am I right?


I understand there are a lot of stupid people out there, but you gotta keep fighting it. Also, no I have not seen or felt this. I am good with some characters, I am bad with some too. It's that simple really. At the same time, I have seen some great players use the characters I am bad with.


I don't know, tiers lists aren't exactly a bad thing sometimes though. But I don't know how you can't feel the genuine differences between characters, it's true some people may be better with other characters than some, but I don't think winning all comes down to skill.


Of course it does. So you got your final smash? Alright, that's half the battle. Can you use it properly? Also, can you explain how tiers are good?


I'm talking about professional matches with tourney rules, where no luck is involved. Where it comes down to both players skill and their character's strengths and weaknesses. About tiers, well to be honest, I'm definately not the most knowledgable person when it comes to the methods that "pros" use for gathering all the statistics needed to create a list. But why be satisfied with what we have in front of us? Why not dig deeper and try to discover all the minute incatricies of the game? While it's not officially from the source, it's still a step forward.


The last tier in a nut shell said if it wasn't falco, shiek, marth or fox, they are useless. Besides, it ruins the fun for most people.


I can understand what you mean, that blows, but I'm sure you've have to taken into account that it was glitch was that made them completely own the rest. Yeah, it ruins the fun for some people, but I'm glad that in Brawl at least there isn't some glitch that let's 4 characters completely own the rest...


Not only that, but characters have been nerfed and buffed accordingly to make sure everyone is even.


I'm sorry but I'm still going to question that... Look at Mario, okay, now look at Pit... See the difference?
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Posted 5/7/08

Kizer_kun wrote:


moshXcore87 wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


moshXcore87 wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


moshXcore87 wrote:

i think olimar sucks...i kinda wish the katadamari dude was a character in the game lol...just a thought[=


Your using him like everyone else. Rank up the damage with his pikmin side-B, if you can get all 6 on, that percentage meter will fly. Trust me, Olimar is the unsung hero if anything.


well yeah i know all about that but i just think he sucks period...something about him is just so unappealing as a character lol...maybe it's the gargantuan nose:P


the whole thing about manipulating the pikmin to fight for you may not be your thing. Works just fine for me though.


that's hot...but ya i suppose your right haha...i'm superficial when it comes to characters that i use(except wario that hunk) not going to lie...i tend to use the "cool" looking ones most of the time[=...but ya my best characters would prolly be pit and samus...what about you?


Mario, Lucas, Toon Link, and Capt. Falcon. Though I have been using "toon" link back when he was young link in melee. Makes me better then most young link scrubs.


those pretty good characters...mario makes it on my top 5 best haha...and i noticed i never really use ness and lucas...dunno why i mean i think they are pretty cool...maybe i'll try using them more[=
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23 / M / New Jersey
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Posted 5/7/08

jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:

You calls call yourself smash fans? Disgusting. No character sucks. They are all evened out. Every character has a fair chance of winning. Just because you suck with them does not mean they are bad characters, Jigglypuff rules the skies with it's areal combos and it's devastating final smash on smaller areas. Ganadorf is not Falcon clone, he is THE strongest character in the game, and slowest. Also, Ganadorf's attacks have more of a lung and distance to them then falcons. Sonic is the fastest yes, though his attacks are pretty weak. Takes forever to break smash ball with him, but if you manage, that's a terrifically painful final smash right there.

The moral of the story is, don't try to make tier list for this game. You will fail horrifically.


Actually, you're wrong. What you say may be true for amateur play but when it come to professional play you'll see why. The teir list is there to lists the win-lose ratios for each character based on the hypothesis that both players are equally good at their characters. So yes, you can manage to win with ganandorf against a marth but ganon will have a really hard time.


There is no such thing as a Brawl tier, sorry. There won't be because as stated by Sakurai, each character is just as good as the other. Once again, maybe you feel that way because you suck with ganandorf?


Tiers don't exist in Brawl!? That's garbage, you're deluding yourself if you think otherwise...


An official tier does not exist. Only fan made ones that mean nothing.


Listen, I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm not a fan of tier lists either, but as long as people are obsessed with winning they are always going to debate about "Who is the best?" Plus, you've seen and felt the character balance, it's a bit off, am I right?


I understand there are a lot of stupid people out there, but you gotta keep fighting it. Also, no I have not seen or felt this. I am good with some characters, I am bad with some too. It's that simple really. At the same time, I have seen some great players use the characters I am bad with.


I don't know, tiers lists aren't exactly a bad thing sometimes though. But I don't know how you can't feel the genuine differences between characters, it's true some people may be better with other characters than some, but I don't think winning all comes down to skill.


Of course it does. So you got your final smash? Alright, that's half the battle. Can you use it properly? Also, can you explain how tiers are good?


I'm talking about professional matches with tourney rules, where no luck is involved. Where it comes down to both players skill and their character's strengths and weaknesses. About tiers, well to be honest, I'm definately not the most knowledgable person when it comes to the methods that "pros" use for gathering all the statistics needed to create a list. But why be satisfied with what we have in front of us? Why not dig deeper and try to discover all the minute incatricies of the game? While it's not officially from the source, it's still a step forward.


The last tier in a nut shell said if it wasn't falco, shiek, marth or fox, they are useless. Besides, it ruins the fun for most people.


I can understand what you mean, that blows, but I'm sure you've have to taken into account that it was glitch was that made them completely own the rest. Yeah, it ruins the fun for some people, but I'm glad that in Brawl at least there isn't some glitch that let's 4 characters completely own the rest...


Not only that, but characters have been nerfed and buffed accordingly to make sure everyone is even.


I'm sorry but I'm still going to question that... Look at Mario, okay, now look at Pit... See the difference?

Mario is the most well balanced character in the game. Not really strong, but not really weak either. Pit has one of the best recovers in the game, but his frail weak body allows you to put him right back where he came from. Also, if he is hit by anything at all while using his up-b, it does not recover until he lands.
2300 cr points
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23 / M / New Jersey
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Posted 5/7/08

moshXcore87 wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


moshXcore87 wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


moshXcore87 wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


moshXcore87 wrote:

i think olimar sucks...i kinda wish the katadamari dude was a character in the game lol...just a thought[=


Your using him like everyone else. Rank up the damage with his pikmin side-B, if you can get all 6 on, that percentage meter will fly. Trust me, Olimar is the unsung hero if anything.


well yeah i know all about that but i just think he sucks period...something about him is just so unappealing as a character lol...maybe it's the gargantuan nose:P


the whole thing about manipulating the pikmin to fight for you may not be your thing. Works just fine for me though.


that's hot...but ya i suppose your right haha...i'm superficial when it comes to characters that i use(except wario that hunk) not going to lie...i tend to use the "cool" looking ones most of the time[=...but ya my best characters would prolly be pit and samus...what about you?


Mario, Lucas, Toon Link, and Capt. Falcon. Though I have been using "toon" link back when he was young link in melee. Makes me better then most young link scrubs.


those pretty good characters...mario makes it on my top 5 best haha...and i noticed i never really use ness and lucas...dunno why i mean i think they are pretty cool...maybe i'll try using them more[=


Lucas is a lot of fun to use, while my brother prefers Ness.
Posted 5/7/08

Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:

You calls call yourself smash fans? Disgusting. No character sucks. They are all evened out. Every character has a fair chance of winning. Just because you suck with them does not mean they are bad characters, Jigglypuff rules the skies with it's areal combos and it's devastating final smash on smaller areas. Ganadorf is not Falcon clone, he is THE strongest character in the game, and slowest. Also, Ganadorf's attacks have more of a lung and distance to them then falcons. Sonic is the fastest yes, though his attacks are pretty weak. Takes forever to break smash ball with him, but if you manage, that's a terrifically painful final smash right there.

The moral of the story is, don't try to make tier list for this game. You will fail horrifically.


Actually, you're wrong. What you say may be true for amateur play but when it come to professional play you'll see why. The teir list is there to lists the win-lose ratios for each character based on the hypothesis that both players are equally good at their characters. So yes, you can manage to win with ganandorf against a marth but ganon will have a really hard time.


There is no such thing as a Brawl tier, sorry. There won't be because as stated by Sakurai, each character is just as good as the other. Once again, maybe you feel that way because you suck with ganandorf?


Tiers don't exist in Brawl!? That's garbage, you're deluding yourself if you think otherwise...


An official tier does not exist. Only fan made ones that mean nothing.


Listen, I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm not a fan of tier lists either, but as long as people are obsessed with winning they are always going to debate about "Who is the best?" Plus, you've seen and felt the character balance, it's a bit off, am I right?


I understand there are a lot of stupid people out there, but you gotta keep fighting it. Also, no I have not seen or felt this. I am good with some characters, I am bad with some too. It's that simple really. At the same time, I have seen some great players use the characters I am bad with.


I don't know, tiers lists aren't exactly a bad thing sometimes though. But I don't know how you can't feel the genuine differences between characters, it's true some people may be better with other characters than some, but I don't think winning all comes down to skill.


Of course it does. So you got your final smash? Alright, that's half the battle. Can you use it properly? Also, can you explain how tiers are good?


I'm talking about professional matches with tourney rules, where no luck is involved. Where it comes down to both players skill and their character's strengths and weaknesses. About tiers, well to be honest, I'm definately not the most knowledgable person when it comes to the methods that "pros" use for gathering all the statistics needed to create a list. But why be satisfied with what we have in front of us? Why not dig deeper and try to discover all the minute incatricies of the game? While it's not officially from the source, it's still a step forward.


The last tier in a nut shell said if it wasn't falco, shiek, marth or fox, they are useless. Besides, it ruins the fun for most people.


I can understand what you mean, that blows, but I'm sure you've have to taken into account that it was glitch was that made them completely own the rest. Yeah, it ruins the fun for some people, but I'm glad that in Brawl at least there isn't some glitch that let's 4 characters completely own the rest...


Not only that, but characters have been nerfed and buffed accordingly to make sure everyone is even.


I'm sorry but I'm still going to question that... Look at Mario, okay, now look at Pit... See the difference?

Mario is the most well balanced character in the game. Not really strong, but not really weak either. Pit has one of the best recovers in the game, but his frail weak body allows you to put him right back where he came from. Also, if he is hit by anything at all while using his up-b, it does not recover until he lands.


Mario's weak compared to other characters like Snake and Wolf. Pit is a bit cheap and full of spam with smashes that have high priority and little recovery, plus the bow speaks for itself. I really don't see any balance there at all....
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Posted 5/7/08

jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:

You calls call yourself smash fans? Disgusting. No character sucks. They are all evened out. Every character has a fair chance of winning. Just because you suck with them does not mean they are bad characters, Jigglypuff rules the skies with it's areal combos and it's devastating final smash on smaller areas. Ganadorf is not Falcon clone, he is THE strongest character in the game, and slowest. Also, Ganadorf's attacks have more of a lung and distance to them then falcons. Sonic is the fastest yes, though his attacks are pretty weak. Takes forever to break smash ball with him, but if you manage, that's a terrifically painful final smash right there.

The moral of the story is, don't try to make tier list for this game. You will fail horrifically.


Actually, you're wrong. What you say may be true for amateur play but when it come to professional play you'll see why. The teir list is there to lists the win-lose ratios for each character based on the hypothesis that both players are equally good at their characters. So yes, you can manage to win with ganandorf against a marth but ganon will have a really hard time.


There is no such thing as a Brawl tier, sorry. There won't be because as stated by Sakurai, each character is just as good as the other. Once again, maybe you feel that way because you suck with ganandorf?


Tiers don't exist in Brawl!? That's garbage, you're deluding yourself if you think otherwise...


An official tier does not exist. Only fan made ones that mean nothing.


Listen, I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm not a fan of tier lists either, but as long as people are obsessed with winning they are always going to debate about "Who is the best?" Plus, you've seen and felt the character balance, it's a bit off, am I right?


I understand there are a lot of stupid people out there, but you gotta keep fighting it. Also, no I have not seen or felt this. I am good with some characters, I am bad with some too. It's that simple really. At the same time, I have seen some great players use the characters I am bad with.


I don't know, tiers lists aren't exactly a bad thing sometimes though. But I don't know how you can't feel the genuine differences between characters, it's true some people may be better with other characters than some, but I don't think winning all comes down to skill.


Of course it does. So you got your final smash? Alright, that's half the battle. Can you use it properly? Also, can you explain how tiers are good?


I'm talking about professional matches with tourney rules, where no luck is involved. Where it comes down to both players skill and their character's strengths and weaknesses. About tiers, well to be honest, I'm definately not the most knowledgable person when it comes to the methods that "pros" use for gathering all the statistics needed to create a list. But why be satisfied with what we have in front of us? Why not dig deeper and try to discover all the minute incatricies of the game? While it's not officially from the source, it's still a step forward.


The last tier in a nut shell said if it wasn't falco, shiek, marth or fox, they are useless. Besides, it ruins the fun for most people.


I can understand what you mean, that blows, but I'm sure you've have to taken into account that it was glitch was that made them completely own the rest. Yeah, it ruins the fun for some people, but I'm glad that in Brawl at least there isn't some glitch that let's 4 characters completely own the rest...


Not only that, but characters have been nerfed and buffed accordingly to make sure everyone is even.


I'm sorry but I'm still going to question that... Look at Mario, okay, now look at Pit... See the difference?

Mario is the most well balanced character in the game. Not really strong, but not really weak either. Pit has one of the best recovers in the game, but his frail weak body allows you to put him right back where he came from. Also, if he is hit by anything at all while using his up-b, it does not recover until he lands.


Mario's weak compared to other characters like Snake and Wolf. Pit is a bit cheap and full of spam with smashes that have high priority and little recovery, plus the bow speaks for itself. I really don't see any balance there at all....


Mario is well rounded. Snake is slow and awful if you don't give him time to attack. Quite slow. Wolf is too destructive on himself, and his attacks are high risk. Pit's bow can easily be deflected by many characters. Lucario, Mario, Ike, Pit himself, Marth, Fox, Ness, Lucas, Wolf, Falco, Game and Watch. If anyone has an easy time getting the smash ball, It's Lucas dude. Not Pit.
Posted 5/7/08 , edited 5/7/08

Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:

You calls call yourself smash fans? Disgusting. No character sucks. They are all evened out. Every character has a fair chance of winning. Just because you suck with them does not mean they are bad characters, Jigglypuff rules the skies with it's areal combos and it's devastating final smash on smaller areas. Ganadorf is not Falcon clone, he is THE strongest character in the game, and slowest. Also, Ganadorf's attacks have more of a lung and distance to them then falcons. Sonic is the fastest yes, though his attacks are pretty weak. Takes forever to break smash ball with him, but if you manage, that's a terrifically painful final smash right there.

The moral of the story is, don't try to make tier list for this game. You will fail horrifically.


Actually, you're wrong. What you say may be true for amateur play but when it come to professional play you'll see why. The teir list is there to lists the win-lose ratios for each character based on the hypothesis that both players are equally good at their characters. So yes, you can manage to win with ganandorf against a marth but ganon will have a really hard time.


There is no such thing as a Brawl tier, sorry. There won't be because as stated by Sakurai, each character is just as good as the other. Once again, maybe you feel that way because you suck with ganandorf?


Tiers don't exist in Brawl!? That's garbage, you're deluding yourself if you think otherwise...


An official tier does not exist. Only fan made ones that mean nothing.


Listen, I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm not a fan of tier lists either, but as long as people are obsessed with winning they are always going to debate about "Who is the best?" Plus, you've seen and felt the character balance, it's a bit off, am I right?


I understand there are a lot of stupid people out there, but you gotta keep fighting it. Also, no I have not seen or felt this. I am good with some characters, I am bad with some too. It's that simple really. At the same time, I have seen some great players use the characters I am bad with.


I don't know, tiers lists aren't exactly a bad thing sometimes though. But I don't know how you can't feel the genuine differences between characters, it's true some people may be better with other characters than some, but I don't think winning all comes down to skill.


Of course it does. So you got your final smash? Alright, that's half the battle. Can you use it properly? Also, can you explain how tiers are good?


I'm talking about professional matches with tourney rules, where no luck is involved. Where it comes down to both players skill and their character's strengths and weaknesses. About tiers, well to be honest, I'm definately not the most knowledgable person when it comes to the methods that "pros" use for gathering all the statistics needed to create a list. But why be satisfied with what we have in front of us? Why not dig deeper and try to discover all the minute incatricies of the game? While it's not officially from the source, it's still a step forward.


The last tier in a nut shell said if it wasn't falco, shiek, marth or fox, they are useless. Besides, it ruins the fun for most people.


I can understand what you mean, that blows, but I'm sure you've have to taken into account that it was glitch was that made them completely own the rest. Yeah, it ruins the fun for some people, but I'm glad that in Brawl at least there isn't some glitch that let's 4 characters completely own the rest...


Not only that, but characters have been nerfed and buffed accordingly to make sure everyone is even.


I'm sorry but I'm still going to question that... Look at Mario, okay, now look at Pit... See the difference?

Mario is the most well balanced character in the game. Not really strong, but not really weak either. Pit has one of the best recovers in the game, but his frail weak body allows you to put him right back where he came from. Also, if he is hit by anything at all while using his up-b, it does not recover until he lands.


Mario's weak compared to other characters like Snake and Wolf. Pit is a bit cheap and full of spam with smashes that have high priority and little recovery, plus the bow speaks for itself. I really don't see any balance there at all....


Mario is well rounded. Snake is slow and awful if you don't give him time to attack. Quite slow. Wolf is too destructive on himself, and his attacks are high risk. Pit's bow can easily be deflected by many characters. Lucario, Mario, Ike, Pit himself, Marth, Fox, Ness, Lucas, Wolf, Falco, Game and Watch. If anyone has an easy time getting the smash ball, It's Lucas dude. Not Pit.


I didn't say anything about Pit getting a smash ball though... In stages like Battlefield, you are going to have a hard time coming at a skilled Pit player if he camps near an edge, under a platform, unless your character has a reflector. Snake is not horribly slow, his Neutral A combo is fast, does good damage and great knock back, and his 2 hit variable tilt has the power and force of a strong smash.
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Posted 5/7/08
jiggly
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Posted 5/7/08

jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


jesusosorio wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:


crunchypibb wrote:


Kizer_kun wrote:

You calls call yourself smash fans? Disgusting. No character sucks. They are all evened out. Every character has a fair chance of winning. Just because you suck with them does not mean they are bad characters, Jigglypuff rules the skies with it's areal combos and it's devastating final smash on smaller areas. Ganadorf is not Falcon clone, he is THE strongest character in the game, and slowest. Also, Ganadorf's attacks have more of a lung and distance to them then falcons. Sonic is the fastest yes, though his attacks are pretty weak. Takes forever to break smash ball with him, but if you manage, that's a terrifically painful final smash right there.

The moral of the story is, don't try to make tier list for this game. You will fail horrifically.


Actually, you're wrong. What you say may be true for amateur play but when it come to professional play you'll see why. The teir list is there to lists the win-lose ratios for each character based on the hypothesis that both players are equally good at their characters. So yes, you can manage to win with ganandorf against a marth but ganon will have a really hard time.


There is no such thing as a Brawl tier, sorry. There won't be because as stated by Sakurai, each character is just as good as the other. Once again, maybe you feel that way because you suck with ganandorf?


Tiers don't exist in Brawl!? That's garbage, you're deluding yourself if you think otherwise...


An official tier does not exist. Only fan made ones that mean nothing.


Listen, I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm not a fan of tier lists either, but as long as people are obsessed with winning they are always going to debate about "Who is the best?" Plus, you've seen and felt the character balance, it's a bit off, am I right?


I understand there are a lot of stupid people out there, but you gotta keep fighting it. Also, no I have not seen or felt this. I am good with some characters, I am bad with some too. It's that simple really. At the same time, I have seen some great players use the characters I am bad with.


I don't know, tiers lists aren't exactly a bad thing sometimes though. But I don't know how you can't feel the genuine differences between characters, it's true some people may be better with other characters than some, but I don't think winning all comes down to skill.


Of course it does. So you got your final smash? Alright, that's half the battle. Can you use it properly? Also, can you explain how tiers are good?


I'm talking about professional matches with tourney rules, where no luck is involved. Where it comes down to both players skill and their character's strengths and weaknesses. About tiers, well to be honest, I'm definately not the most knowledgable person when it comes to the methods that "pros" use for gathering all the statistics needed to create a list. But why be satisfied with what we have in front of us? Why not dig deeper and try to discover all the minute incatricies of the game? While it's not officially from the source, it's still a step forward.


The last tier in a nut shell said if it wasn't falco, shiek, marth or fox, they are useless. Besides, it ruins the fun for most people.


I can understand what you mean, that blows, but I'm sure you've have to taken into account that it was glitch was that made them completely own the rest. Yeah, it ruins the fun for some people, but I'm glad that in Brawl at least there isn't some glitch that let's 4 characters completely own the rest...


Not only that, but characters have been nerfed and buffed accordingly to make sure everyone is even.


I'm sorry but I'm still going to question that... Look at Mario, okay, now look at Pit... See the difference?

Mario is the most well balanced character in the game. Not really strong, but not really weak either. Pit has one of the best recovers in the game, but his frail weak body allows you to put him right back where he came from. Also, if he is hit by anything at all while using his up-b, it does not recover until he lands.


Mario's weak compared to other characters like Snake and Wolf. Pit is a bit cheap and full of spam with smashes that have high priority and little recovery, plus the bow speaks for itself. I really don't see any balance there at all....


Mario is well rounded. Snake is slow and awful if you don't give him time to attack. Quite slow. Wolf is too destructive on himself, and his attacks are high risk. Pit's bow can easily be deflected by many characters. Lucario, Mario, Ike, Pit himself, Marth, Fox, Ness, Lucas, Wolf, Falco, Game and Watch. If anyone has an easy time getting the smash ball, It's Lucas dude. Not Pit.


I didn't say anything about Pit getting a smash ball though... In stages like Battlefield, you are going to have a hard time coming at a skilled Pit player if he camps near an edge, under a platform, unless your character has a reflector. Snake is not horribly slow, his Neutral A combo is fast, does good damage and great knock back, and his 2 hit variable tilt has the power and force of a strong smash.


Quick, but predictable. For a snake player to run in throwing his fists around would be a horrible idea. As for pit camping, that's what a skill player does, really? They camp? Sounds like a total mockery of the word "skilled".
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