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12 Year Old Boy With Fake Gun Fatally Shot By Police Officer
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Posted 11/29/14 , edited 11/30/14
I don't know if anyone here has heard but last weekend, a 12 yea old boy in Cleveland was carrying a toy gun and a police officer shot him. The gun had normally had an orange cap on it to differentiate it from a real gun but in this case, that orange cap was removed. Allegedly, the officer responded to a 911 call about a boy pointing a gun at people. The caller themselves said the gun might be fake. The officer then pulled up next to the boy and claims that he told him to put his hands up 3 times but the boy didn't comply. He also claimed that he didn't notice it was a young boy... The good news: This was caught on camera! Now lets take a look at what really happened...

http://nypost.com/2014/11/27/cops-release-video-of-officer-fatally-shooting-12-year-old/

The city released surveillance video of the shooting. The video's quality is pretty bad so here's a quick walk through of what happened for those of you confused about the video.

- A 12 year old boy named Tamir Rice is sitting at a table in a gazebo in a park.
- He walks around.
- A police car rushes in out of nowhere.
- Officer Timothy Loehmann shoots Tamir from his window less than 2 seconds after arriving without so much as giving him a warning or telling him anything.
- Loehmann and his partner, Frank Garmback, exit the car.

Now for what happened after the video:

- Both officers just stood there and neither one of them tried helping the boy bleeding to death on the ground.
- A nearby FBI agent working on another case came a few minutes later and gave the boy first-aid.
- Tamir was rushed to the hospital but later died.
- The 2 officers are currently under investigation.

At first I was thinking that this probably isn't worth posting about and that it was just a case of an officer telling someone with a real-looking gun to put their hands up and they didn't listen. Of course, this was coming from the officer's mouth so I had my suspicion. Now that there's a video that shows what happened, it's clear that this shooting wasn't as simple as the officer said it was.
Posted 11/29/14 , edited 12/4/14
*sigh*



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Posted 11/29/14
don't worry, soon the police will change there name to a more approriate 'Protection Squadron' or maybe 'defence corps'.
Posted 11/29/14 , edited 12/4/14
Wow, that is actually rather frightening. As I said before, it seems somewhat backwards to me that police officers have the ability to execute people on the spot. But I suppose that sentiment will be rather unpopular, so i'll try to hold back my opinions on the matter.

So, as I said in that thread, I really think we should be working on more effective incapacitating implements. Or as was mentioned in that thread - better training in the situational use of firearms for officers.



Zeta-Nu wrote:

*sigh*





My reaction after reading the YouTube comments of that video. I constantly vow to stay away from them, yet I almost always end up looking regardless - like a moth flittering towards a flame.
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Posted 11/29/14

seekerperson7 wrote:

Wow, that is actually rather frightening. As I said before, it seems somewhat backwards to me that police officers have the ability to execute people on the spot. But I suppose that sentiment will be rather unpopular, so i'll try to hold back my opinions on the matter.

So, as I said in that thread, I really think we should be working on more effective incapacitating implements. Or as was mentioned in that thread - better training in the situational use of firearms for officers.



Zeta-Nu wrote:

*sigh*





My reaction after reading the YouTube comments of that video. I constantly vow to stay away from them, yet I almost always end up looking regardless - like a moth flittering towards a flame.


I didn't look at the comments on the video. Are they that bad?
Posted 11/29/14 , edited 12/3/14
Unlike the Michael Brown case, I am against the cop for this one. He should not have done that, and the boy should not be dead.

Still, there are many other cases as well where a non-white cop/person shoots a white person or a black cop shoots a black person. I'm a bit tired of the one-sided media in this matter, and the lack of acknowledgement by blacks about black-on-black-violence as well.

Again though, for this case I feel the cop is wrong and should be jailed in my opinion.
Posted 11/29/14

PhantomGundam wrote:

I didn't look at the comments on the video. Are they that bad?


For me they are. Perhaps they're not that bad objectively though. I sort of measure my reaction to them based on how many I want to respond to and how fervently I want to respond - so to me it was rather bad lol. But there were still quite a few that I agreed with and appreciated.

As I said in that thread, I have a rather old fashioned view of life - so there are some sentiments that are nearly impossible for me to understand.

Not that I particularly want to understand them. Well, maybe out of curiosity.
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Posted 11/29/14
Shoot first, and make lies later!
If it has an orange barrel topper, don't alter or remove it.
Teach your kids how to handle weapons and when and where they should have them out.
Regardless, a horrible incident that should not have gone down the way it did, but cops are trained to protect their lives and the lives of others if it seems that it may be a dangerous confrontation. I'd rather know that they killed someone drawing a weapon prior to the weapon being discharged and injuring others, had it been a traditional firearm.
Shy of the orange tip, I deal with allegedly "seasoned" gun aficionados who can't tell the difference between a traditional firearm and some pneumatic weapons, ergo, I doubt many people could tell the difference in a potential fight or flight situation if an air soft gun was a real gun with a removed or colored over tip.
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Posted 11/29/14 , edited 11/30/14

Zeta-Nu wrote:

*sigh*






I concur zeta, I concur…
*shakes head at all the cop brutality occurring lately*
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Posted 11/29/14 , edited 11/30/14

SoldierSangria wrote:

Unlike the Michael Brown case, I am against the cop for this one. He should not have done that, and the boy should not be dead.

Still, there are many other cases as well where a non-white cop/person shoots a white person or a black cop shoots a black person. I'm a bit tired of the one-sided media in this matter, and the lack of acknowledgement by blacks about black-on-black-violence as well.

Again though, for this case I feel the cop is wrong and should be jailed in my opinion.


lol? the cop shot an unarmed Michael Brown 12 times, how are people even defending the cop?
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Posted 11/29/14 , edited 11/30/14

SoldierSangria wrote:

Unlike the Michael Brown case, I am against the cop for this one. He should not have done that, and the boy should not be dead.

Still, there are many other cases as well where a non-white cop/person shoots a white person or a black cop shoots a black person. I'm a bit tired of the one-sided media in this matter, and the lack of acknowledgement by blacks about black-on-black-violence as well.

Again though, for this case I feel the cop is wrong and should be jailed in my opinion.


As I said in the other thread, "black-on-black violence" is irrelevant. It usually results in the killer getting arrested so there's not much to complain about when comparing it to a cop killing someone, which usually results in the cop getting let off the hook rather easily. It's still a little early to know what will happen to the cop who shot this little boy but as history tells us over and over again, this man will most likely not get in trouble. Hopefully the video would be enough to convict this guy. If video evidence of a police officer rushing in to shoot a little boy and not doing anything to check on his injuries isn't enough to lock someone up, than the justice system in this country is far worse than anyone could have imagined.
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Posted 11/30/14 , edited 11/30/14
Sad indeed, but... the kid should have known better. This might be harsh to some people but the kid killed himself.

I grew up in south central l.a. and as kids every one knew not to play in the streets with a pellet gun/b.b. gun, cause you'll get shot by the police. That was common knowledge, same as logic as not to wear a slabs of meat in a loin cage, or go swimming covered in blood with sharks. That shit will get you killed.

From what the report said, there was a kid at the park shooting at cars, windows, and brandishing the "gun" to other people. Which where also kids. It didn't help that he or someone spray panted the safety tip black along with the gun. So when the cops showed up they where informed of a person with a gun at a park, where children where near by.

Its messed up he got shot by a cop as soon as they came up, but he shouldn't been shooting stuff up before. Should the cop waited, just a 2 more seconds? Hell yeah he should, Should the kid not do what he did prior before? Yep.

It sucks but its a lesson to everyone, don't do shit that would get you shot by a cop. If only he would have watch Chris Rocks tips on not to get beaten by the police video...
Posted 11/30/14 , edited 11/30/14
I guess I'll be the only differing opinion for a bit. First lets walk through the whole video,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L97aihRvZtQ

We already got a point he is brandishing it around earlier without a care in the world, keep in mind in many states that could realistically get you shot by anyone when you are pointing firearm at someone like he did as it can be perceived that you threatened them in such a manner. Between you and me, if I had something realistically as that pointed at me, more than likely mine would be out too. I'm not gonna gamble my life on a random person having a fake or real gun when you cannot even tell from feet apart.

I will agree on one point, that the kid should not be dead by for vastly different reasons than that have been stated. First of all, you shouldn't be giving a kid a replica firearm, especially in which a point they have painted or otherwise removed ANY marking denoting it as a fake, that is a already a major issue that is one at the parental level. Next, you should be teaching your kid NOT to go around brandishing it like a idiot outside in public, as my ABOVE statement applies.

As for the cops actions, I won't say pulling up to him was the bright idea in the world, but personally it changes very little in what could of happened. Just looking at the video, you get a glimpse of him dragging his jacket up and doing something, is he reaching for it? Potentially, can anyone here tell? Nope. The only 2 people that can are the cops, since after all they are the only alive ones today. Did they have chest cameras? I don't know, but we'll find out eventually if they did or did not.

That said, if your first act when a squad car comes to a stop in front of you, and cops get out is to start reaching for ANYTHING, you best be prepared to be assumed to be a risk. Guns and knives can be easily concealed and police aren't going to take a risk with that. Remember, 21 feet or less is covered in Tueller drill, and guns are easy enough to draw within seconds. Why take either risk? Why did the kid not just stop and put his hands up? What did he reach for? Why did he even reach for it? These are all questions NONE of us can answer here.

Remember this isn't a happy rainbow world where everything is perfect, people say training and what not, but realistically we live in a world where teenagers ARE involved in shooting at people.
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Posted 11/30/14
I totally agree with you Nasigo.

If anyone points anything looking like a gun/real or not, I'll take it as an attempt on my life, you really never know.

Great point, teenagers are killing people in schools and what not. Kids these days, its a messed up world, with messed up people in it.
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Posted 11/30/14 , edited 11/30/14
Look I think cops are dicks like 90% of the population. However cops have to defend themselves in their jobs, most have families just like you or me and getting killed by someone is something they can't let happen. Bottom line if you point a weapon at a cop you better expect to get shot.

I lived in Arizona for a while and had a firearm inside my vehicle. I was pulled over 3 times there and I always made sure my hands were 100% visible and the officers knew I had a weapon and had no intention of going for it. I was asked to step out of my car and back toward the police car every time but I obeyed and they took possession of the weapon, wrote me a ticket or told me to get my headlight fixed, and then let me go.

What's next condemning soldiers for shooting kids who are shooting at them with AK-47's? It's already shitty enough having to shoot them without a bunch of keyboard warriors calling you a babykiller. Have some empathy for the guy who found out it was a fake gun and not a serious deadly threat.

Hit a cop get shot, brandish a weapon at a cop and get shot. These are old sayings for a reason. If you don't agree with certain laws there are ways to get them noticed. Looting, rioting, and acting a fool are not the ways to get these things noticed. If anything it sets back civil rights and makes MLK turn over in his grave. Because lets be honest here this post is a not subtle at all stab at the whole Ferguson thing using another incident to foment more hatred. Shit like this makes average Americans who aren't racist become racist out of fear. Is that what you really want?
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