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12 Year Old Boy With Fake Gun Fatally Shot By Police Officer
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Posted 11/30/14
Probably due to the fact that since gun laws are so relaxed in this country it adds credence to the possibility that the gun the kid had may have been real.

If the gun laws were super strict, the mindset is that there would be no logical reason to believe the kid actually was able to get his hand on a real gun. Logical fallacy, but there it is.
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Posted 11/30/14 , edited 11/30/14
^ Yeah, that.


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I don't get this. We're talking about gun control, despite the fact that the officer was licensed and the boy carried a fake gun?


The connection is that presumably the credibility of the claim that the boy posed a significant threat to the officer would be diminished were firearms so difficult to obtain as to make it unlikely the boy could have reasonably obtained anything more dangerous than an air pistol.
Posted 11/30/14 , edited 11/30/14

blind_fate wrote:

Probably due to the fact that since gun laws are so relaxed in this country it adds credence to the possibility that the gun the kid had may have been real.

If the gun laws were super strict, the mindset is that there would be no logical reason to believe the kid actually was able to get his hand on a real gun. Logical fallacy, but there it is.


A dangerous assumption no doubt. Willy Bosket bought a gun illegally at age 12 and robbed some people in the subway. Even with super strict laws, you can never be sure.
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Posted 11/30/14
- Both officers just stood there and neither one of them tried helping the boy bleeding to death on the ground.

this is unjustifiable
Posted 11/30/14
a lot of nonsense about age on this thread
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Posted 11/30/14

Lowlights wrote:


Siawo wrote:


SoldierSangria wrote:

Unlike the Michael Brown case, I am against the cop for this one. He should not have done that, and the boy should not be dead.

Still, there are many other cases as well where a non-white cop/person shoots a white person or a black cop shoots a black person. I'm a bit tired of the one-sided media in this matter, and the lack of acknowledgement by blacks about black-on-black-violence as well.

Again though, for this case I feel the cop is wrong and should be jailed in my opinion.


lol? the cop shot an unarmed Michael Brown 12 times, how are people even defending the cop?


He was shot 6 times.


the cop shot 12 times according to reports, 6-7 were the ones that hit Michael Brown
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Posted 11/30/14

Iregi wrote:


AiYumega wrote:

People are like "He's innocent, you know it!! Cops are all bad and racist." Meanwhile he's out in the street like...




The US needs to make it harder to buy guns, sorry to all you gun lovers out there. They're a hazard, a danger, and a menace to society.

In 2013, 11,419 people in the US were killed by guns!!

In 2008, Japan had ELEVEN homicides by gun!!

Enough is enough!!!!!!!

I'll use even more exclamation points if it gets the point across!! We're killing ourselves.



Just an interesting counterpoint to that. Chicago has one of the highest if not the highest gun crime rate every year. Chicago/Illinois Have the most stringent gun control laws in the entire united states. If you go 15 minutes East of Chicago You hit this other state with almost zero gun control.... And guess what! The gun crime rate there is one of the lowest in the country.

Just take a think about why that is.


I have a counter point to that!

Since there are states with very little gun laws that are only a 15min drive from Chicago, what stops the criminals from just driving to those states, buying the guns, and going back to commit the crimes in Chicago?

If you look at New York City, which shares similar, geography, demographics and political characteristics to Chicago, you see much lower gun crimes.

Why is that you ask?

Well all the states that surround New York City have very strict gun laws as well, this is the argument for NATIONAL gun laws to become stricter......

or it could be that stop and frisk really works

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Posted 11/30/14

Siawo wrote:


Lowlights wrote:


Siawo wrote:


SoldierSangria wrote:

Unlike the Michael Brown case, I am against the cop for this one. He should not have done that, and the boy should not be dead.

Still, there are many other cases as well where a non-white cop/person shoots a white person or a black cop shoots a black person. I'm a bit tired of the one-sided media in this matter, and the lack of acknowledgement by blacks about black-on-black-violence as well.

Again though, for this case I feel the cop is wrong and should be jailed in my opinion.


lol? the cop shot an unarmed Michael Brown 12 times, how are people even defending the cop?


He was shot 6 times.


the cop shot 12 times according to reports, 6-7 were the ones that hit Michael Brown


That's not the same thing
Posted 11/30/14
hmm..so there might be a lot of these crimes against adult criminals and it might be ignored.
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Posted 11/30/14 , edited 11/30/14

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I don't get this. We're talking about gun control, despite the fact that the officer was licensed and the boy carried a fake gun?




I'm kidding. Some people already brought up the fair point that having less strict gun laws could've made people believe this was a real gun at the time. Still doesn't excuse the rookie cop's reckless actions, though. If an officer believes that someone is a threat, proper procedure would've been to get them to put the weapon down and surrender. Not rush in for the kill like they're playing Call of Duty or something.

Anyways, I was just watching the news and they played the 911 call. The caller emphasized twice that the gun was probably fake. In addition to that, they said the person was pointing a gun at people and that's it. No one was hurt. The probably of there being an immediate threat was low, or at least lower than most people would expect. They also played the call the officer made after shooting the kid. He described the victim and then hesitated before saying the person he shot was in his 20's.


Mugen417 wrote:


I have a counter point to that!

Since there are states with very little gun laws that are only a 15min drive from Chicago, what stops the criminals from just driving to those states, buying the guns, and going back to commit the crimes in Chicago?

If you look at New York City, which shares similar, geography, demographics and political characteristics to Chicago, you see much lower gun crimes.

Why is that you ask?

Well all the states that surround New York City have very strict gun laws as well, this is the argument for NATIONAL gun laws to become stricter......

or it could be that stop and frisk really works



Stop and frisk targets minorities most of the time and it almost always results in the person not having anything on them. It's a failed policy that does more harm than good. When it's not gangs killing people, it's the police. It's sad how there's no peaceful alternative.
Posted 11/30/14

PhantomGundam wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I don't get this. We're talking about gun control, despite the fact that the officer was licensed and the boy carried a fake gun?




I'm kidding. Some people already brought up the fair point that having less strict gun laws could've made people believe this was a real gun at the time. Still doesn't excuse the rookie cop's reckless actions, though. If an officer believes that someone is a threat, proper procedure would've been to get them to put the weapon down and surrender. Not rush in for the kill like they're playing Call of Duty or something.

Anyways, I was just watching the news and they played the 911 call. The caller emphasized twice that the gun was probably fake. In addition to that, they said the person was pointing a gun at people and that's it. No one was hurt. The probably of there being an immediate threat was low, or at least lower than most people would expect. They also played the call the officer made after shooting the kid. He described the victim and then hesitated before saying the person he shot was in his 20's.


There's a reason they called the police. They're just not sure. I also like to emphasize that banning guns does not mean guns are erased from existence. You cannot ban something and expect everyone to follow it. The kid could've been holding an illegal gun for all you know.
Children don't think as clearly as adults, so telling him to freeze may have been ineffective. Yet on the other hand the kid should've been considered a possible fatality too, and unlike most shooters, every chance must be taken to ensure his survival. Seriously, how many Willy Boskets are there in the world? The cop should've been aware that "hey, this kid might be innocent too, and doesn't know he's holding a real gun".
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Posted 11/30/14 , edited 12/8/14
People tend to make their judgments based on a third-party perspective, and fail to put themselves in the cop's shoes. In addition, the video is lacking audio, so nobody knows exactly what is going on down there.

You receive a call that a that a black male is carrying a gun (yes, the cops were not informed that it was a toy gun).

You get there and you see a person who matches the description.

(Remember, you only have a split second to make decisions here)

You tell the boy to put his hands up.

He refuses.

You tell the boy to put his hands up again.

He refuses again.

You tell the boy to put his hands up once more.

He again refuses.

By this point, the person of interest can be considered a major risk as he is disobeying orders and is carrying a gun.

At this point, to protect the lives of himself and other people the person of interest is shot.

They then proceed to kick the gun away from the person of interest so that he doesn't try to take the gun and shoot someone.

Medical help is called.

You wait there, contemplating in shock that this is the first time you have ever shot at someone.
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Posted 11/30/14
Kind of makes me question why did they have to pull up so close to him if they clearly know he has a (fake) gun. Especially how fast the cruiser appeared and immediately stop in front of him. Now if they had pulled up a little further away, then maybe the death would have been avoided since the rookie officer open fired before the other guy even got out of the car. To me, that's almost like a drive by shooting.
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Posted 11/30/14
TeeeBudd2: Kind of makes me question why did they have to pull up so close to him if they clearly know he has a (fake) gun

I would like to state that the recording of the person calling the police states they were unsure if the gun was real and it was probably fake. However, the dispatcher did NOT inform the officers of that fact. There is recording to back that up. The officers were showing up on the scene UNAWARE that it was 'probably' a toy.

I do not get why the cruiser pulled up to quickly and close to the person though...I would think if they were under the impression that there was a person 'in their 20's' and armed, they would have pulled up further away, using their car for cover and then proceeded to engage the situation. Pulling up right next to a person armed with a gun where they have a clean line of shit right through a window just seems....not standard policy.

The cruiser should have a dash cam with audio. Playing that along with the really terribly choppy video should give a better indication of a timeline and what was actually stated by the officers.
Posted 11/30/14
The cop was absolutely wrong to shoot the boy so this is not in defense to him, but why on EARTH didn't the child put up his hands when the OFFICER told him to MORE THAN ONCE?

Why didn't the boy listen?
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