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Student Dies after Confronting Group of Men Bothering Girls
Posted 11/30/14 , edited 12/1/14
http://www.buzzfeed.com/davidmack/vale-tugce-albayrak

This incident prompted me to ask if you, as a female, are nervous to simply walk around in public all alone for fear of incidents such as these? Or cat-calling, harassment in general? Do you think men take these sorts of things too lightly?

I'd like to have some commentary from men too on this incident and how many women nowadays complain so often of this sort of thing. (Harassment, unwanted attention). Do you think women are making a big deal about this, or is it genuine?

This has been a pretty hot topic lately, and I want to know what people on here think about this sort of thing.
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Posted 11/30/14 , edited 12/1/14
This is why I'm scared to leave my house.
Posted 11/30/14
there's probably a thread covering the idea even if not the topic. wonder why they stopped merging threads and stuff. can see the topic about the kid getting shot merging nicely with the thread about gun laws.
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Posted 11/30/14 , edited 12/1/14
Incidents like these make me wish I knew how to handle a gun. Luckily I carry a can of mace wherever I go.

And yes, I do think some men take this issue far too lightly, but I also think some women tend to blow it out of proportion. But to me, personally, it depends on what individuals view as harassment.
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Posted 11/30/14 , edited 11/30/14
This incident is disgusting. I would, however, be interested to learn the nature of the harassment involving the original men and girls. The facts that employees refused to intervene and that the woman who did was physically but not sexually assaulted indicate that the original incident might have been more of an altercation or dispute than actual harassment--at least that's how I interpret things. The victims can shed light on the issue, but might prove hard to find--especially if this was a dispute rather than harassment, in which case the girls are already in trouble for causing trouble for people whom they know/members of their community. And consider the possibilities that this was a family disagreement, or a situation peculiar to a group of immigrants/transients in a foreign land (this occurred in Germany, but the man in custody is Serbian). Not that this lessens the tragedy, but as a police officer I can tell you that domestic disputes are some of the most volatile and dangerous calls to which we respond.

The loss of this brave and compassionate woman is horrible. I hope that truth can be found and justice served.
Posted 11/30/14 , edited 12/1/14
Can't say I'm scared. Then again, I don't really walk around in public unless I am going to or from work.

I am also tired of gendered issues. Both sexes suffer street harassment and violence. That could have easily happened to a guy as well. It's unfortunate and sad that we live in such a world, but I believe that we all should come to terms with this sort of reality. Women should not live in fear of such a thing. Men walk around as if they could never get mugged or shot or threatened. Why do women need to feel like they have so much more to fear?
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20 / M / Sweden
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Posted 11/30/14
The problem isn't male or female, the problem is our current civilization and media. There's always been mental people out there, it doesn't matter where in history you look. The only difference with today and the psst is that people who was mentally challenged in the past got them selfs publicly executed by a regime (or similar) thus meaning that mental people history wise have been too scared and oppressed to act against other people (in this case woman) and/or governments. And it doesn't work like that anymore, due to the fact that most countries around the world doesn't use death sentences and even if they do then if the person in question has a bit of money then he can hire a layer that'll help him/her out of the situation. In short there's not as much of a risk for mentsl people to do stuff today compared to other times.

Then we also have the fact that the current media is profit based, this is why I personally don't trust the media. You may ask why, it's simple. Media is more psychological now compared to how it has been due to the fact that peoples fears simply sell more and thus they'll often exaggerate things because they know people will buy it if they can install some fear into people uncouncesly.
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Posted 11/30/14 , edited 12/1/14
Heh omega force you kinda reminded me of a passage from Heinlein's Starship Troopers. Where Rico is thinking about a guy that was publicly executed after going AWOL and harming children. If there was a way to rehabilitate them to a normal state of mind wouldn't they kill themselves over what they had done? Isn't locking them in jail just a drain on public funds? Is there really any way for them to redeem themselves or do you just remove them from society permanently?

Not really on the topic of this discussion I know but it's an interesting thing to think about isn't it?

Also deadlydoll hit it on the head. Gendered issues throw everything out of proportion. People die from street crime all over the world every day. It only makes the news if there's a way for the media to market it. A race issue, a sexism issue, a homophobia issue, etc etc.
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20 / F / Los Angeles
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Posted 11/30/14
This world is becoming more gray when I think about it. So tragic.
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26 / M / Houma
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Posted 11/30/14
There is a huge grey area in the public eye as what crosses the line to harassment but I think we can all agree that this case was way over that line. (that is ignoring the murder, If a guy had stopped him they would have been just as likely to jump him)

There are some that make a big deal out of perceived harassment but that does not mean that the genuine problem doesn't exist. The people who do cross that line tend to be violent and self centered. There a large overlap between genuine harassment and bad people in general. These people do not respect others and often they do not respect life...

I fear these types of people, at any time they could snap and try to harm or kill you. I am almost always looking out to avoid them and try to travel in public sight at all times.

Always be aware, that's what I try to do... and in that situation I probably would have still stepped in and put a stop to that but afterward I would probably wait around in clear view until I can visually confirm that the aggressors left.

Be on guard but don't let the few ruin your experience in life. I know it is a hard balance to achieve but I don't think this is ever an issue that will go away.
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Posted 11/30/14 , edited 12/1/14
From the top comments:


Ailbhe Warde-Brown · Top Commenter · Royal Holloway, University of London
Scared about simply walking around in public? If there's one thing I hate, it's people using someone who has literally died to forward a hateful ideology. So please for the sake of sensitivity, pack that in.


and this:


Catherine Lewin
Rebekah Jean Waykedria Hutson Yes but there are attacks on men by women too, our gender is not such righteous entity that can do no harm and you can't make long sweeping statements saying 'men need to get their shit together' when that discounts every good man and every man who would not have done such a horrific thing. I do agree she was a very brave woman who was senselessly attacked for doing the right thing and my utmost sympathies go out to her family. But why don't we look at what in our Society is breeding these sorts of people and educate them and actually try to do something rather than sit at our keyboards blaming a gender for something some twisted individuals are doing. 'Men' did not do this, a man did. Sexism goes both ways.



Regardless of being male or not, Buzzfeed absolutely LOVE to push these types of articles because they are written to evoke a strong emotional response within the group of people that would click on them (it's clickbait plus an an inducement to share). It has no care or concern about what morality its articles promote, but instead just focuses on making sure its stuff gets spread. (hence it appeals to the lowest common denominator of our emotions).

I think these two comments speak more to the fact that articles LIKE these are what are forcing women to feel terrified of walking outside, and believing that all men are evil (or potentially evil) rather than doing anything to actually remedy the situation. Instead, they make it far, far worse.

If you are female, and are already too terrified of men to step outside your door, you're already a victim. Not of men, but of your own mind and your own preconcieved ideas about gender and the reinforcement and reaffirmation of these ideas that you seek out on your own.

Instead of being terrified and acting like the women who were being harassed, you SHOULD be embracing the fact that the woman who died had no such fear and act more like her. Chances are, she was not looking at gender and was just trying to help someone in need out.
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23 / M / AZ
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Posted 11/30/14
Forgive my language but people are fucked up. Men and women.
Posted 11/30/14 , edited 11/30/14
Yupp I've always been scared since I've been physically/verbally harassed in public by more than one person. If I get a compliment or a greeting I smile and say thanks or greet back. But some men take it to far like this guy asked me all sorts of personal questions where I lived what apt complex what apt number if I lived alone if I wanted to come over. For me I've had different experiences (long stories) that have made me a bit more cautious and closed off than most. And ofc some woman can be the same too as I've had females do the same to me :/
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Posted 11/30/14

moonhawk81 wrote:

This incident is disgusting. I would, however, be interested to learn the nature of the harassment involving the original men and girls. The facts that employees refused to intervene and that the woman who did was physically but not sexually assaulted indicate that the original incident might have been more of an altercation or dispute than actual harassment--at least that's how I interpret things. The victims can shed light on the issue, but might prove hard to find--especially if this was a dispute rather than harassment, in which case the girls are already in trouble for causing trouble for people whom they know/members of their community. And consider the possibilities that this was a family disagreement, or a situation peculiar to a group of immigrants/transients in a foreign land (this occurred in Germany, but the man in custody is Serbian). Not that this lessens the tragedy, but as a police officer I can tell you that domestic disputes are some of the most volatile and dangerous calls to which we respond.

The loss of this brave and compassionate woman is horrible. I hope that truth can be found and justice served.


Interesting, particularly the bit in blue.
Posted 11/30/14
What a pretty girl. And now she's dead. 23, and dead. The shame of what life can be sometimes.... So screwed up.

I have two sisters. They do a lot of martial arts and boxing with me so I know for a fact they could kick the living hell out of anyone like this. Makes me proud

As for those guys who did it..

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