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Terrorist attempt at Gateway Arch
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Posted 12/4/14 , edited 12/4/14
So there are now protests in NYC for that Eric Garner case I was talking about. I agree with protests on that incident. The officer should not have walked away with no punishment. That officer was abusive, his abusive actions killed a man (who was no real threat, either, mind you), and it was all caught on camera.

As for Ferguson, it was a mess, and the Michael Brown incident didn't warrant such protests, but a lot of people don't understand why they happened. It wasn't really just about the Michael Brown incident. Something like those protests was coming eventually, the Michael Brown incident was a spark that touched some gasoline. It was the straw that broke the camel's back. Those protests in Ferguson didn't just happen for the heck of it. Something like that came about because there have been too many incidents where black people have been killed by police officers, in incidents where the use of lethal force and/or excessive force was seriously called into question.


Edit: So people understand, I'm for peaceful protests in NYC over the Eric Garner case. What happened in Ferguson...there were riots and looting, but the thing is, that was almost entirely from troublemakers and rabble rousers from outside of Ferguson who traveled to the location to specifically do those unlawful things. Like I said, troublemakers with an anarchist spirit. The people of Ferguson were trying to carry out peaceful protests, and were trying hard to fend off the trouble makers and were denouncing them. This is something a lot of people don't understand about the Ferguson thing.
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Posted 12/4/14

(Spoiler insert to avoid massive quote ladder.)

These are two very good points, and neither are incorrect. It is a fact that racism facilitates the artificial justification of violence against black and brown people, and the unique position of law enforcement officers is such that police violence is, legally speaking, the easiest to justify. Officers, due to the nature of their job, are under constant threat of physical violence and so are trained to act defensively, sometimes by escalating conflicts by one measure. If someone is verbally threatening, they may defend themselves physically. If someone assaults them physically, they may use a weapon. If someone assaults them with a weapon, they may use deadly force. ALSO, the law does not draw distinctions between a real and a perceived weapon, and in some states "furtive behavior" is classified as use of a weapon.

Escalations aside, the people on the receiving end of police violence are often difficult to defend. Many of them have a history of arrests, were behaving badly during the encounter, or the circumstances of the encounter were such that most reasonable people would feel threatened. Law enforcement officers have a disproportionate number of dangerous encounters, and are trained to rapidly size up the threat level of an encounter and act accordingly. They do make mistakes, but there is evidence that they have less subconscious racial bias, and are less likely to choose deadly force, than the rest of us given the same choices. http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/11/science-of-racism-prejudice

The Ferguson riots are less about the killing of one unarmed boy, and more an outcry against the pervasive racism that facilitates the disenfranchisement of an entire community, the acceptance and dismissal of violence against members of this community, and a pattern of institutionalized disparity in St. Louis county that manifests in a way that resembles state-sponsored class warfare. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/22/ferguson-black-america_n_5694364.html

People on both sides of this conflict have behaved badly, and for every picture like this

there is one like this.

Sure, the man in this picture has been treated unfairly,

but certainly this man has as well.


Ultimately, whether Wilson is punished for Brown's death or not will have little impact on the institutionalized racism that set the stage for the shooting. It is the civil unrest itself that, by refusing to go away, that will force the institution to change. Does it suck? Yes. But I, for one, hope that the protests are tenacious enough to force revolutionary change in the social and legal value our skin colors hold. In the words of Emma Lazarus, "Until we are all free, we are none of us free."
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Posted 12/4/14 , edited 12/4/14
Here is the video of the Eric Garner incident. The autopsy revealed he died because of reasons that were due to the choke hold the police officer put on Eric. The police officer will not even go to court because a jury decided to not even indict him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=g-xHqf1BVE4#t=67
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34 / M / Finland- The Cave...
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Posted 12/4/14
I'll care about terrorists when they come to my doorstep and then I care about them with my handgun.

That's all there is.
Posted 12/4/14

Dubnoman wrote:

Here is the video of the Eric Garner incident. The autopsy revealed he died because of the reasons that were due to the choke hold the police officer put on Eric. The police officer will not even go to court because a jury decided to not even indict him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=g-xHqf1BVE4#t=67



are these cops not trained in CPR???
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Posted 12/4/14 , edited 12/4/14

moonhawk81 wrote:


Dubnoman wrote:

Terrorism is evil and wrong. These guys are in the wrong. But it bothers me a little that these guys will get raked across the coals while police officers like Wilson continue to get slaps on the wrist when they are in hot water. Seriously, if you have been paying attention to these kinds of things, time after time that a case comes up against a police officer (where there is legitimate cause for controversy), they almost always get a slap on the wrist.


I mean, this Ferguson thing was a mess. People made such a big deal about what happened to Brown, but there was an even worse incident that happened around the same time Brown died. It is the Eric Garner case. In Staten Island, NY, Eric (a black man) was confronted by police for selling untaxed cigarettes. He got frustrated for the police always coming knocking at his door for something. He exclaimed his frustration, threw his arms and hands up in the air out of frustration, and then a police officer immediately attacked him from behind and put him into a choke hold (because whoa! he threw his hands in the air suddenly, and we all know how black suspects are 'extra dangerous'...). This choke hold is illegal for police officers to do in NYC, btw. Anyway, Eric was reaching his hands up to the officers arms, gasping for air, and saying (to the best of his ability when being choked) "I can't breath, I can't breath". Eric was soon subdued, and soon after this, died. The autopsy showed that he died because of the stress the choke hold was having on him (Eric was overweight, which factored into this, but nonetheless, the police officer did something which killed him). Oh yes, a bystander caught all of this on camera. Illegal choke hold and all. The police officer never went to court. A jury decided not to indict the officer...

You see, shit like this happens all the damn time in America. And a lot of times it is a black person who is being killed. And so, so many times when things like these happen and they investigate the situation and the cop (or cops) come under fire, they end up walking away with a slap on the wrist...

I can't tell you how many times I've seen a cop come under fire, they investigate, give him something like three weeks of paid leave, and then when all is said and done, the guy walks away with little to no punishment...


And again I say: If you weren't there, you don't really know what happened. And if you weren't seated on the jury, then you don't know what evidence they saw or what discussions they had, meaning that you don't know why they reached their decision. Of course, it sounds as though you simply don't like cops. . .not that I'm saying you don't, because I don't know. But it sure sounds that way. . .


It's obviously racial bias, and not a lot of people like cops. Sorry to break it to ya.
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Posted 12/5/14 , edited 12/6/14
". . .and not a lot of people like cops." Until they are the ones feeling threatened, I've noticed. To protect the rights of all, we (the police) must curtail the actions of the few. Those few, however, tend to believe--or at least shout at the top of their lungs--that it is their own rights being curtailed rather than their actions.

Are all police actions justified? Of course not. Mistakes are made, and sometimes deliberately wrong actions are undertaken by officers ignoring their oaths. (Not that I am saying that officers associated with any particular case were mistaken or wrong.) Police are people, and people make mistakes and sometimes simply do bad things, for which they should be appropriately and justly punished. That does not, however, mean that police as a whole foster a culture of abuse, discrimination, or racism. The nature of our job--carrying a public trust while interacting specifically with individuals, particularly those individuals acting against the public good--attracts constant scrutiny and review while cultivating resentment. That scrutiny and review serve the public interest, but resentment towards officers performing their sworn duties does not. People simply dislike being told what to do. Still, it is a job which must be done in order to provide a society based upon rule of law.

Furthermore, the public is perhaps unfamiliar with the challenges police officers face. In my 15 years as an officer, I've located the family of a lost 4-year-old boy in a sporting venue hosting tens of thousands of people; rescued an elderly man who fell and became stuck in the bowl of a public toilet; and helped evacuate several burning buildings. I've also been shot at; stabbed twice; deliberately struck with a moving vehicle; and physically assaulted several times. And that was being on my guard. (We must be, constantly--it is the nature of our work.) I don't know what happened in any of the specific cases that have been mentioned in this thread, because I was not present. But I do know that people really do attack the police, sometimes without any recognizable provocation, and that we are hyper-vigilant because we must be.

Lastly, thank you, mhibicke, for your comments. Their fairness and validity are reassuring.
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Posted 12/5/14
Media have and always will be controlled by what people fear the most and that currently is terrorists!
Posted 12/5/14

AzazelOfNexium wrote:

lol and this is supposed to fix the country....yes.. lets fix the country by destroying it.


And then rebuilding from the ground up.
Sogno- 
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Posted 12/6/14
yay let's blow up things so that these dead people will come back to life and all white cops are placed in jail!


moonhawk81 wrote:


this comment has too much common sense and actual firsthand experience. It must be wrong.


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