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Post Reply Fate Series and the Nasuverse - Adaptations, Visual Novels (Spoilers)
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Posted 12/7/14

kingcity20 wrote:



BTW Fate/hollow will never happen <--- bad sequel and that nasu couldn't make hf the cannon route.


RIIIIIIGHTTTT!!!!!

It's a sequel. That's pretty much loved by fans of the franchise. Your 1 opinion isn't going to outweigh the majority.
It got it's vita remake before tsukihime for a reason.

Will it get an adaptation? Who knows, unless UBW sells 100,000 copies we wont know for sure.

Why would HF have to be the canon route? Did you even know what happens in it?

Rin and Ilya (mainly rin) fuck up the timelines and merge all universes/ caused the timeloop.
So all routes are canon and in all routes kotomine ends up dead that's why his daughter takes his place.


Heaven feel was the true ending for the fate stay night visual maybe? Taiga and Illya even said it on Taiga dojo. btw if Kotomine stay death why is lancer still there?
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Posted 12/7/14

TomCraft wrote:


kingcity20 wrote:



BTW Fate/hollow will never happen <--- bad sequel and that nasu couldn't make hf the cannon route.


RIIIIIIGHTTTT!!!!!

It's a sequel. That's pretty much loved by fans of the franchise. Your 1 opinion isn't going to outweigh the majority.
It got it's vita remake before tsukihime for a reason.

Will it get an adaptation? Who knows, unless UBW sells 100,000 copies we wont know for sure.

Why would HF have to be the canon route? Did you even know what happens in it?

Rin and Ilya (mainly rin) fuck up the timelines and merge all universes/ caused the timeloop.
So all routes are canon and in all routes kotomine ends up dead that's why his daughter takes his place.


Heaven feel was the true ending for the fate stay night visual maybe? Taiga and Illya even said it on Taiga dojo. btw if Kotomine stay death why is lancer still there?


It wasn't, Nasu said they're all the true endings. That's the point of a Multiverse.
Umm probably the Grails immense mana allows all the servants to manifest/ Shirou(Avenger) Being the cause of the endless loops
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Posted 12/8/14

kingcity20 wrote:


TomCraft wrote:


kingcity20 wrote:



BTW Fate/hollow will never happen <--- bad sequel and that nasu couldn't make hf the cannon route.


RIIIIIIGHTTTT!!!!!

It's a sequel. That's pretty much loved by fans of the franchise. Your 1 opinion isn't going to outweigh the majority.
It got it's vita remake before tsukihime for a reason.

Will it get an adaptation? Who knows, unless UBW sells 100,000 copies we wont know for sure.

Why would HF have to be the canon route? Did you even know what happens in it?

Rin and Ilya (mainly rin) fuck up the timelines and merge all universes/ caused the timeloop.
So all routes are canon and in all routes kotomine ends up dead that's why his daughter takes his place.


Heaven feel was the true ending for the fate stay night visual maybe? Taiga and Illya even said it on Taiga dojo. btw if Kotomine stay death why is lancer still there?


It wasn't, Nasu said they're all the true endings. That's the point of a Multiverse.
Umm probably the Grails immense mana allows all the servants to manifest/ Shirou(Avenger) Being the cause of the endless loops


No, I'm saying that Heaven feel is the true ending to the visual novel, not that canon bs that nasu use to escape what is canon and what isn't canon. By the way we shouldn't think too much about it. And I didn't mean to say that Fate/hollow is bad at best it probably average , but as a sequel to FSN it suck
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Posted 12/8/14

TomCraft wrote:

No, I'm saying that Heaven feel is the true ending to the visual novel, not that canon bs that nasu use to escape what is canon and what isn't canon. By the way we shouldn't think too much about it. And I didn't mean to say that Fate/hollow is bad at best it probably average , but as a sequel to FSN it suck


In that case wouldn't the "True End" be the true end of rins route? Since it's the one that makes more sense?
Heaven's Feel is just the last ending in the game, and it's not even the last ending anymore since after Realta Nua came out. The last end would be when Saber and Shirou meet in The Last Episode. When Shirou eventually reaches Avalon where Saber is sleeping.

You see that's not the "canon" bs you're talking about. Things don't make sense without the multiverse. Kara No Kyoukai and Tsukihime are completely different timelines. Hollow Ataraxia due to Rin's experiment with the second magic the town became a place where "any and all events are possible" meaning they merged all alternate universes.

I'm saying that as a sequel its great and it's loved by fans because it fleshes out all the characters. Especially ones that didn't get that much fleshing out in the original FSN like Caster, Lancer, etc. Yes its a fan disk made mostly for fun, but those are all side things. The main story aka Bazett, Caren and Shirou(Avenger)'s story is really good.

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Posted 12/8/14 , edited 12/8/14

kingcity20 wrote:


TomCraft wrote:

No, I'm saying that Heaven feel is the true ending to the visual novel, not that canon bs that nasu use to escape what is canon and what isn't canon. By the way we shouldn't think too much about it. And I didn't mean to say that Fate/hollow is bad at best it probably average , but as a sequel to FSN it suck


In that case wouldn't the "True End" be the true end of rins route? Since it's the one that makes more sense?
Heaven's Feel is just the last ending in the game, and it's not even the last ending anymore since after Realta Nua came out. The last end would be when Saber and Shirou meet in The Last Episode. When Shirou eventually reaches Avalon where Saber is sleeping.

You see that's not the "canon" bs you're talking about. Things don't make sense without the multiverse. Kara No Kyoukai and Tsukihime are completely different timelines. Hollow Ataraxia due to Rin's experiment with the second magic the town became a place where "any and all events are possible" meaning they merged all alternate universes.

I'm saying that as a sequel its great and it's loved by fans because it fleshes out all the characters. Especially ones that didn't get that much fleshing out in the original FSN like Caster, Lancer, etc. Yes its a fan disk made mostly for fun, but those are all side things. The main story aka Bazett, Caren and Shirou(Avenger)'s story is really good.



Should we consider the last episode canon? Shirou should be incapable of reaching Avalon, and the rule of Nasuvers is that only the five magic are capable of bringing forth a miracle. You don't have to answer because we already had this discussion in the another thread.

Last time I check Shirou nor Arturia have one of the five magic, which means that its a illusion created by Saber or lady of the lake.
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Posted 12/8/14

TomCraft wrote:


kingcity20 wrote:


TomCraft wrote:

No, I'm saying that Heaven feel is the true ending to the visual novel, not that canon bs that nasu use to escape what is canon and what isn't canon. By the way we shouldn't think too much about it. And I didn't mean to say that Fate/hollow is bad at best it probably average , but as a sequel to FSN it suck


In that case wouldn't the "True End" be the true end of rins route? Since it's the one that makes more sense?
Heaven's Feel is just the last ending in the game, and it's not even the last ending anymore since after Realta Nua came out. The last end would be when Saber and Shirou meet in The Last Episode. When Shirou eventually reaches Avalon where Saber is sleeping.

You see that's not the "canon" bs you're talking about. Things don't make sense without the multiverse. Kara No Kyoukai and Tsukihime are completely different timelines. Hollow Ataraxia due to Rin's experiment with the second magic the town became a place where "any and all events are possible" meaning they merged all alternate universes.

I'm saying that as a sequel its great and it's loved by fans because it fleshes out all the characters. Especially ones that didn't get that much fleshing out in the original FSN like Caster, Lancer, etc. Yes its a fan disk made mostly for fun, but those are all side things. The main story aka Bazett, Caren and Shirou(Avenger)'s story is really good.



Should we consider the last episode canon? Shirou should be incapable of reaching Avalon, and the rule of Nasuvers is that only the five magic are capable of bringing forth a miracle. You don't have to answer because we already had this discussion in the another thread.

Last time I check Shirou nor Arturia have one of the five magic, which means that its a illusion created by Saber or lady of the lake.


Yea it's probably just an illusion. what I was saying is that if you are going by the last ending being the true ending HF isn't the last ending.
I think we choose what ending we just choose what ending we prefer.
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Posted 12/8/14
So, besides Arcueid, who're the strongest characters in the nasuverse?
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Posted 12/8/14 , edited 12/8/14

Shrapnel893 wrote:

So, besides Arcueid, who're the strongest characters in the nasuverse?


Without counting the servants it used to be Ryougi Shiki (3rd personality probably) then the Primordial Demons. I'm pretty sure Aoko (5th Magic) blew all that out of the water though.
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Posted 12/8/14

kingcity20 wrote:


Shrapnel893 wrote:

So, besides Arcueid, who're the strongest characters in the nasuverse?


Without counting the servants it used to be Ryougi Shiki (3rd personality probably) then the Primordial Demons. I'm pretty sure Aoko (5th Magic) blew all that out of the water though.


If you technically count ORT as a character, then its pretty damn powerful.

Of course, this guy is very OP (if we count Notes as part of the nasuverse) :

http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Ado_Edem

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Posted 12/8/14

farispie wrote:


kingcity20 wrote:


Shrapnel893 wrote:

So, besides Arcueid, who're the strongest characters in the nasuverse?


Without counting the servants it used to be Ryougi Shiki (3rd personality probably) then the Primordial Demons. I'm pretty sure Aoko (5th Magic) blew all that out of the water though.


If you technically count ORT as a character, then its pretty damn powerful.

Of course, this guy is very OP (if we count Notes as part of the nasuverse) :

http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Ado_Edem



I don't think we can count notes since I thought Notes, Canaan, and DDD were not part of the Nasuverse?
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Posted 12/8/14

kingcity20 wrote:


farispie wrote:


kingcity20 wrote:


Shrapnel893 wrote:

So, besides Arcueid, who're the strongest characters in the nasuverse?


Without counting the servants it used to be Ryougi Shiki (3rd personality probably) then the Primordial Demons. I'm pretty sure Aoko (5th Magic) blew all that out of the water though.


If you technically count ORT as a character, then its pretty damn powerful.

Of course, this guy is very OP (if we count Notes as part of the nasuverse) :

http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Ado_Edem



I don't think we can count notes since I thought Notes, Canaan, and DDD were not part of the Nasuverse?


Yeah that's what I figured, though alot of the concepts in Notes carry over to the rest of the nasuverse (mainly the idea of "Ultimate Ones"). Anyways, ORT is in the nasuverse canon ;P
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Posted 12/8/14

kingcity20 wrote:

I don't think we can count notes since I thought Notes, Canaan, and DDD were not part of the Nasuverse?


Excuse my ignorance, but what exactly "defines" the Nasuverse? Is it like in Neil Gaiman's adult fantasy work, where the stories may not be related (or even necessarily exist in the same universe), but have identical/near-identical rules for how magic and gods and the like work? Or is it more like Lovecraft, where the similarity in tone is the shared element?

I've never been entirely clear on the concept, outside of knowing that those works aren't considered part of it.
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Posted 12/8/14 , edited 12/8/14

imaginarycreatures wrote:


kingcity20 wrote:

I don't think we can count notes since I thought Notes, Canaan, and DDD were not part of the Nasuverse?


Excuse my ignorance, but what exactly "defines" the Nasuverse? Is it like in Neil Gaiman's adult fantasy work, where the stories may not be related (or even necessarily exist in the same universe), but have identical/near-identical rules for how magic and gods and the like work? Or is it more like Lovecraft, where the similarity in tone is the shared element?

I've never been entirely clear on the concept, outside of knowing that those works aren't considered part of it.


I think it's more along the line of Neil Gaiman's due to the fact that the 5 "True Magics" are all referenced throughout them, as well as the True Ancestors and Dead Apostles existing in all of them. Mystic Eyes are in all of them also, both Shiki's and Rider have them. Reality Marbles, peoples origin, the Root, the ultimate ones, etc all of them are pretty much the same throughout.

Stuff like Canaan don't fit in because Synesthesia isn't part of the rules in the nasuverse, as well as there being no connection between any of the lore within it.
DDD is the same so far also, no known connection between the novels and the lore of the nasuverse. DDD deals more with Abnormal Agonist Syndrome also named demonic possesion syndrome or something like that.

Notes is weird because there is some stuff of it in the nasuverse, but it's like Nasu took the ideas from Notes and reimagined them for the lore in the Nasuverse. Examples being the crimson moon becoming one of the Types(Ultimate Ones) called Type-Moon.
In Notes none of these characters come to earth until the distant future and proceed to war amongst themselves eventually destroying the planet. In the Nasuverse though, they came in a while back in the timeline. So Notes can only be seen as a prototype of sorts.
I think Nasu mentioned Type Mercury (ORT) as being a character in a game that you don't have to fight. Think of it like in Final Fantasy, he's a optional boss in some hidden cave that is a billion times stronger than the final boss of the game but plays absolutely no part in the main story other than Lore and is completely broken in terms of power.

BTW Nasu loves tabletop RPG's which is probably where most of his ideas came from.
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Posted 12/9/14
Commie needs to stop being a bunch of faggots so I can read Mahoyo in its entirety while I'm still free from spoilers.



I need my Scar Red, y'all <3
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Posted 12/9/14

kingcity20 wrote:

BTW Nasu loves tabletop RPG's which is probably where most of his ideas came from.


Yeah, some of his influences are obvious. D&D was definitely something he experienced. I'd also wager he read a good bit of Aleister Crowley, as well.

Thanks for explaining that; I assumed that was how the Nasuverse worked, but its not always super clear why some things are included and other things aren't.
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