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Some considerations regarding rape.
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Posted 12/5/14 , edited 12/5/14

Biggle wrote:

I guess I can't make a joke if this is an actual serious topic

You lucked out, I think rape is the form of sex without the others' consent, duh.
What cave you came out of?


No cave. If it makes you uncomfortable, you don't have to reply. Again, these are little discussed complications to the rationale behind the whole "Let's murder them all!!!!" mob justice I see way too much of these days.


narfington wrote:

Oh look. A discussion about rape. Welp, I'm outta here.


Don't worry. I suspect it will be buried in a day or two.

my topics aren't the type to have much staying power, and I was shocked to see 10 responses.... even if most of them were "OMG!!! HE'S DISCUSSING SOMETHING SERIOUS!! AND THERE'S NO GOOD SIDE TO TAKE!!!".

It's actually, kind of a good question in general: what side of two evils are you going to take? are you going to be ruthless in your pursuit of justice, and murder innocents, or are you willing to let some guilty people free, and hope to get them the second time around in order to keep your hands clean?

I COULD introduce the salem witch trials to the matter but....
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Posted 12/5/14
I don't think you can make generalizations about rape, it's kinda like making generalizations on murder or abortion. In these cases it's all about the variables and fine details.
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Posted 12/5/14
I am not capable of this type of discussion since this topic was used in the Speech and Debate Championships on my school
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Posted 12/5/14

Flazedge wrote:

I am not capable of this type of discussion since this topic was used in the Speech and Debate Championships on my school


Do tell
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Posted 12/5/14
I think people need to be more responsible so that they don't find themselves in these situations in the first place. I'm not just talking about rape, but theft, homicide, etc. if you're at an ATM in a bad area of town at 3 am and you get robbed, and what point do you take some responsibility for your poor choices? I'm not saying that that should give anyone the right to commit a crime, but I do think people need to take some responsibility for their choices.
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Posted 12/5/14

Akage-chan wrote:

I think people need to be more responsible so that they don't find themselves in these situations in the first place. I'm not just talking about rape, but theft, homicide, etc. if you're at an ATM in a bad area of town at 3 am and you get robbed, and what point do you take some responsibility for your poor choices? I'm not saying that that should give anyone the right to commit a crime, but I do think people need to take some responsibility for their choices.


Yeah.. kinda agree with that too. It's not saying it's not unfortunate when it happens but...
Posted 12/5/14 , edited 12/6/14
It should be a norm for both parties to sign an agreement form right before having sex. Too lazy/drunk to sign a form? You face the consequences.
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Posted 12/5/14 , edited 12/6/14

Akage-chan wrote:

I think people need to be more responsible so that they don't find themselves in these situations in the first place. I'm not just talking about rape, but theft, homicide, etc. if you're at an ATM in a bad area of town at 3 am and you get robbed, and what point do you take some responsibility for your poor choices? I'm not saying that that should give anyone the right to commit a crime, but I do think people need to take some responsibility for their choices.


There are always ways to reduce risk of rape, theft, homicide, etc... but there is no way to remove the risk and there are always circumstances and coincidences. I also would like to think that Justice (even if it is a vague human concept with no actual substance beyond human beliefs) would apply equal protection to idiots as well as the competent.
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Posted 12/6/14
I'd say the theme of this thread is more about date rape. Rape happens in many different circumstances. It is one of those crimes that has a low conviction rate due to lack of evidence. Both accuser and accused will be stigmatised for life which may lead to loss of employment and or homelessness or being sent to coventry from friends and family.

I wouldn't rely on a fictitious tv show for information on what happens when there's rape. After all that is drama. Yes they may do some research before deciding on a story line but it is still just a show.

It is true that rape doesn't always get reported right away. Not everyone will have access to medical care or access to report the crime at the time and there are cases when police refuse or convince people not to go through with reporting. Even if so called rape kits are used to gather evidence they may not be used in courts and end up being discarded.

Assumptions are easy to make but these days you can find out a lot of information about what really happens when there's rape via reliable sources on the internet.
Posted 12/6/14 , edited 12/6/14
i'm selling truth serum if anyone is interested.
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Posted 12/6/14
I once kinda got raped. I hung out with a girl who was really into biting and stuff. If I was more sensitive I might have reported it, but I didn't because I didn't blame her for her loss of control. When she realized later what she'd done she felt really bad, because she didn't think I was being serious when I told her to stop.
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Posted 12/6/14 , edited 12/6/14


(Spoilers used to avoid quote tree.)
Ok so... good job making inflammatory suggestions while allowing yourself plausible non-responsibility. I am also interested in the responses. To address your points individually:

1) No, it's really not that difficult to prove. It's difficult to DISPROVE, and because it's difficult to DISPROVE, a common tactic is to cast doubt on the supporting evidence by saying things like, "it's difficult to prove" and "s/he's saying that NOW, but what about when s/he changes her/his mind again?" Imagine if the same defense tactics were used to disprove other crimes, like theft or attempted murder. It's ridiculous to even consider. Basically rape is a criminal use of power in which the victim is held responsible for her/his victimization, and the violence is considered permissible, if not outright justified. Other criminal uses of power that are treated similarly include hate crimes, domestic violence, and police violence. To see the inconsistent crime vs punishment paradigm in which they reside, imagine that the same criminal act occurred between people who did not have the same relationship. For example, domestic violence. If a man were to do this to someone else's wife instead of his own, he would certainly be imprisoned.
However, since it's domestic violence he may (or may not) go to jail for 12 hours. After that it's up to the victim to request a protective order from a judge and try to convince law enforcement to enforce it for her.

I'm not saying that domestic violence and rape are the same thing, however, they are similar in many ways.

2) Sure, accusations of rape can damage someone for a lifetime. You know what also damages someone for a lifetime? Rape. (Plus it's incredibly painful.) What are the odds that a man will be falsely accused of rape? Systematic studies from law enforcement of "unfounded" rape allegations (not the crap you get from op-ed blogs) estimate between 6-10%, only half of which are reported by the alleged victim, and the other half are reported by a friend or family member of the alleged victim. So around 3-5% of self-reported rapes are unfounded. In other words, that's a 95-97% chance that a claim of rape is factual. That's really a lot.
http://www.icdv.idaho.gov/conference/handouts/False-Allegations.pdf

3) The disparity between punishment and crime (especially in the very few falsely convicted innocents) is not applicable to the majority of rapes, as 97% of rapists are NEVER incarcerated.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/soraya-chemaly/50-facts-rape_b_2019338.html
https://rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-rates
In fact, those disparate cases are largely black men that have been falsely convicted of raping white women (despite evidence otherwise), and so are more demonstrative of institutionalized racism than false rape allegations. False convictions of black men can be seen in most felonies, including murder, and so far no one has claimed that it's due to false murder allegations.

4) See #2

Anyway, there's a decent amount of information available to you if you are interested in finding it. There's also a lot of crap said by people who don't actually know the facts, though, so double-checking sources is always a good idea, else you end up on the "Mount Stupid" of this chart.
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Posted 12/6/14
The thing is that people always tend to be more sympathetic towards someone whom have been victimized, thus you have a big problem with rape here.


eragon2890 wrote:


SoldierSangria wrote:

This thread.

Is going to turn into WW3.


why don´t they close threads like this?? I want these forums to be fun places to discuss silly go happy otaku things, not serious stuffs like these thingies. It´s depressing and all that~ Oh well like usual I will just act like this thread doesn´t exist *goes to post in the ´I wanna build a snowman thread * XD


If you don't want these type of threads then maybe you should pop over to the more goofy threads, they're under anime/manga/games etc. General is suppose to be about anything, if you don't like it then don't comment on it.
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Posted 12/6/14 , edited 12/6/14

mhibicke wrote:



(Spoilers used to avoid quote tree.)
Ok so... good job making inflammatory suggestions while allowing yourself plausible non-responsibility. I am also interested in the responses. To address your points individually:

1) No, it's really not that difficult to prove. It's difficult to DISPROVE, and because it's difficult to DISPROVE, a common tactic is to cast doubt on the supporting evidence by saying things like, "it's difficult to prove" and "s/he's saying that NOW, but what about when s/he changes her/his mind again?" Imagine if the same defense tactics were used to disprove other crimes, like theft or attempted murder. It's ridiculous to even consider. Basically rape is a criminal use of power in which the victim is held responsible for her/his victimization, and the violence is considered permissible, if not outright justified. Other criminal uses of power that are treated similarly include hate crimes, domestic violence, and police violence. To see the inconsistent crime vs punishment paradigm in which they reside, imagine that the same criminal act occurred between people who did not have the same relationship. For example, domestic violence. If a man were to do this to someone else's wife instead of his own, he would certainly be imprisoned.
However, since it's domestic violence he may (or may not) go to jail for 12 hours. After that it's up to the victim to request a protective order from a judge and try to convince law enforcement to enforce it for her.

I'm not saying that domestic violence and rape are the same thing, however, they are similar in many ways.

2) Sure, accusations of rape can damage someone for a lifetime. You know what also damages someone for a lifetime? Rape. (Plus it's incredibly painful.) What are the odds that a man will be falsely accused of rape? Systematic studies from law enforcement of "unfounded" rape allegations (not the crap you get from op-ed blogs) estimate between 6-10%, only half of which are reported by the alleged victim, and the other half are reported by a friend or family member of the alleged victim. So around 3-5% of self-reported rapes are unfounded. In other words, that's a 95-97% chance that a claim of rape is factual. That's really a lot.
http://www.icdv.idaho.gov/conference/handouts/False-Allegations.pdf

3) The disparity between punishment and crime (especially in the very few falsely convicted innocents) is not applicable to the majority of rapes, as 97% of rapists are NEVER incarcerated.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/soraya-chemaly/50-facts-rape_b_2019338.html
https://rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-rates
In fact, those disparate cases are largely black men that have been falsely convicted of raping white women (despite evidence otherwise), and so are more demonstrative of institutionalized racism than false rape allegations. False convictions of black men can be seen in most felonies, including murder, and so far no one has claimed that it's due to false murder allegations.

4) See #2

Anyway, there's a decent amount of information available to you if you are interested in finding it. There's also a lot of crap said by people who don't actually know the facts, though, so double-checking sources is always a good idea, else you end up on the "Mount Stupid" of this chart.




This. So much this. Anyone who doesn't realize this needs to realize this. This isn't subjective this is a real thing.
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Posted 12/6/14


I see you don't understand what I was saying...

It's easier to believe someone when they claim something bad have happened to them, thus it's easier to lie and get away with it without any solid proof of that ever happening.
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Posted 12/6/14 , edited 12/6/14

TheOmegaForce70941 wrote:

The thing is that people always tend to be more sympathetic towards someone whom have been victimized, thus you have a big problem with rape here.


eragon2890 wrote:


SoldierSangria wrote:

This thread.

Is going to turn into WW3.


why don´t they close threads like this?? I want these forums to be fun places to discuss silly go happy otaku things, not serious stuffs like these thingies. It´s depressing and all that~ Oh well like usual I will just act like this thread doesn´t exist *goes to post in the ´I wanna build a snowman thread * XD


If you don't want these type of threads then maybe you should pop over to the more goofy threads, they're under anime/manga/games etc. General is suppose to be about anything, if you don't like it then don't comment on it.


I fail to understand how sympathizing with some who has been raped is a big problem? I think this world lacks too much sympathy and applies too much blame.
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Posted 12/6/14 , edited 12/6/14

TheOmegaForce70941 wrote:



I see you don't understand what I was saying...

It's easier to believe someone when they claim something bad have happened to them, thus it's easier to lie and get away with it without any solid proof of that ever happening.


It takes a really scummy person to lie about something like rape, but it takes a scummier person to tell a rape victim it was her fault. I'm sure some women have lied but its the same way many other people abuse the system in a plethora of ways in the end as for now the amount is negligible when dealing with the fact the 1 out of 3 women are raped through out their lives.

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